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THE LIBOR Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

THE LIBOR Thread (merged)

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 08:50:32

CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!
Aug. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The British Bankers Association said the overnight lending rate that banks charge each other to borrow in dollars rose to 5.86 percent today from 5.35 percent. The so-called London interbank offered rate in dollars is the highest since the start of 2001.

The benchmark borrowing rate is rising on concern banks face growing losses on investments linked to U.S. mortgages. The European Central Bank said today it is ``closely monitoring the situation and stands ready to act to assure orderly conditions in the euro money market.'' "Liquidity in the market has completely dried up as investors aren't recycling their money back because of subprime concerns,'' said Saher Bin Jung, a trader on the commercial paper desk at Commerzbank AG. ``Levels have shot up dramatically since yesterday as issuers are trying to entice investors back.''

Bank of America Corp. and UBS AG said their overnight borrowing costs rose 65 basis points to 6.00 percentage points. Royal Bank of Canada said its costs rose to 6.00 percentage points from 5.37 percentage points. Barclays also said it needs to pay 6.00 percentage points to borrow overnight in dollars, up from 5.38 percentage points yesterday. For Bank of America, the increase in overnight borrowing costs was the biggest since the Federal Open Markets Committee raised interest rates at the end of June 2004.

BNP Paribas SA, France's biggest bank, today halted withdrawals from three investment funds because it couldn't ``fairly'' value their holdings on concern about subprime mortgage losses. The ECB in Frankfurt said in its statement today that ``there are tensions in the euro money market notwithstanding the normal supply of aggregate euro liquidity.'' Three-month dollar Libor increased to 5.5 percent from 5.38 percent

The only time our FED ever did that was the day after 9/11!!! Futures down hard this morning on the above news. CNBC again had a trader calling for an immediate rate cut.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sat 21 Feb 2009, 19:41:42, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Merge thread.
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Re: ECB Lending Rates Rise, Overnight Dollar Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 08:54:24

BNP Paribas has THREE funds worth a total of about $2 bil Euro with AAA and AA mortgage Bonds in them they they cannot value so they are suspending it!

Contagion going hard global.


Update: The ECB is injecting massive amounts of liquidity and our futures are a train wreck.
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Re: ECB Lending Rates Rise, Overnight Dollar Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:14:55

Also, the panic on the equity markets is down to hedgies liquidating positions ahead of redemption day on Aug 15th.

Financial wildfire underway.
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Re: ECB Lending Rates Rise, Overnight Dollar Libor Surges!

Unread postby Eli » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:32:08

firestarter what are you talking about?


The financial melt down caused by the mortgage melt down has been contained! I watch CNBC so I am well informed.

Nothing to see here move along.
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Re: ECB Lending Rates Rise, Overnight Dollar Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 09:55:39

Eli wrote:firestarter what are you talking about?


The financial melt down caused by the mortgage melt down has been contained! I watch CNBC so I am well informed.

Nothing to see here move along.




Financial meltdown commencing:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE86TFaPzHo
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Lore » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 10:14:12

Hold onto your socks, boys and girls, its going to be a ruff ride in the markets today!
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Roccland » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 10:18:27

I posted this on a thread titled "August 15"

Quote:
"A crucial date could be Aug. 15. That is 45 days before the end of the third quarter, the date when investors in many hedge funds can give notice that they are pulling out their money. If many give notice, it could spark a rash of selling by funds looking to raise cash to cover withdrawals.

Meanwhile, as a torrent of corporate debt hits the market in the weeks ahead, losses could grow for both investment banks and hedge funds, some say.

"The availability of credit has disappeared, and there are $220 billion of [leveraged-buyout] loans" that need to be financed, says J. Kyle Bass, a managing partner at Hayman. "It is going to smoke investment banks. And many more funds will be carried out, feet first."


Link is not there anymore.

I think this is a run up to that date.

Gold getting killed in a mad dash to get cash.

Game OVER!
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 10:22:52

ECB pumping 130 billion into the system to avoid liquidity crisis.

Bloomberg says that the ECB has NEVER, EVER done an injection as big as this. NOT EVER.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Eli » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 11:26:48

The Fed injected 24 billion too.

But CNBC says they did it to protect the European Banks. :roll:

Yeah, this is a melt down but I will not be surprised if we end the day higher.


I agree that this is the big one, and I think there are a lot of big players who think this too. But this whole mess is not going to go out quietly. They are going to do everything they can to keep things going. If they don't throw everything at the market they can to pump it up, it is hello 1929.

This is market is only going to go down kicking and screaming.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby jboogy » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 12:16:18

I'm sittin' this one out. I thought it was gonna crash monday and the market rebounded.This government will stop at nothing to prop up the markets and their power to do it is immeasurable.
Perhaps the population would be less swayed to socialism if we had fewer examples of socialism from our "Free Market Capitalists". -----fiddler dave
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Zardoz » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 13:38:22

Truly dropping like a rock, now. DJ is down 171 and losing 20 points every few minutes.

EDIT:

Holy shit. Now down 212. A 41-point loss in about ten minutes.

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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 14:04:58

There are more hedge fund catastrophes going on than I can list.

Few folks are going to want to close out their positions going long.

This really does have all the makings of an ugly unwind.

hedgi implodemeter


edit:typo
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 14:15:09

You bears are awesome. Thank you so much.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Eli » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 14:16:46

Yup, the hedgefunds are going tits up fast, they are not paying or selling everything they have.

What is happening is this Video of the melt down

The guy made this video thought it was all over, watch the video to the very end.

Too funny OIlm, so ECB injecting unlimited cash is bullish, how again?
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby OilIsMastery » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 14:53:30

Eli wrote:Too funny OIlm, so ECB injecting unlimited cash is bullish, how again?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/07/markets ... ahoo_quote

Leon Cooperman: Why I'm a bull

(Fortune Magazine) -- The stunning drop in stock prices dominated the headlines for days in late July -- and not just in the business press. The major market averages in the U.S. fell approximately 5% in a week, the largest weekly decline in five years.

The steady rise in share prices that preceded the plunge contributed to investor complacency; bond buyers were not demanding enough compensation for the risks they assumed. Now fear has replaced complacency, and risk is more appropriately priced.

As a result -- and most important because I do not believe recent credit-market turmoil will derail the economy -- I view this market drop as a long overdue correction rather than the end of the bull market.

My outlook for the next 12 months has not changed. I believe there's limited downside risk in the U.S. stock market from current levels, and returns over the coming year should be in the low double digits.

One key reason is that we are enjoying steady employment growth, averaging 145,000 jobs a month so far this year, which should mitigate the effects of recent debt-market troubles and housing weakness.

In defense of my notion that the equity market is unlikely to fall sharply from current levels, I would note the following: First, bull markets do not die of old age, they die of excesses such as accelerating and above-trend economic growth, rapidly rising inflation, and interest-rate hikes from a hostile Federal Reserve.

Those excesses are simply not with us today, nor do I expect their arrival anytime soon.

Second, the current bull market has experienced no price/earnings ratio expansion -- unlike every other bull market in the past five decades. In effect, this bull market is not characterized by speculation; rather, its expansion has been restrained compared with earnings growth and the trend of inflation and bond interest rates.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 15:20:03

Send Leon over to Dutch Uncle Mish for the counseling he'll soon be seeking:

Mish wonders where all the cash went
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Eli » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 15:20:18

Well that is a side step of the question, not really an answer but not taking the question head on is more telling than that Permabull article.

The ECB deal is unprecedented. It is bad all around first how it was done, they made the move quickly like they had to cover a Bank or things would have come a part. Second it shows that not only is this mess not contained but that Europe has got it just as bad as the US.

No one has a clue how bad this thing is, but everyday the bodies of dead hedgefunds and mortgage lenders stack up. People leveraged cheap money at a 10 to one ratio on deals that are toilet paper. Right now the name of the game is to say everything is fine then declare Bk the following week.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 15:41:51

Dow down 312 and falling like a rock.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby Twilight » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 16:18:09

Eli wrote:Yeah, this is a melt down but I will not be surprised if we end the day higher.

This is market is only going to go down kicking and screaming.

I agree we will see sharp moves up too, but then this is a rocky landscape, lots of shaking and rapid little impacts break bones as well as large decisive ones. The system may be reduced to a jellyfish over a protracted period before it finally drops and goes splat.
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Re: CRASH ALERT! ECB Lending Rates Rise, Libor Surges!

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 09 Aug 2007, 16:41:28

All major indexes down. Dow down 384.

Anyone want to go long into the weekend?
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