THE Iraqi Oil Thread pt 2 (merged)

[seldom_seen]

Of course we're entitled to the oil contracts. It's funny that this is even a debate.

We defeated them in battle, we conquered their lands, and they have something we want. If this were any other time in history, we would take it and no one would bat an eyelash.

It is only this very recent concept of international liberal democracy that makes humanity think that justice is anything but the advantage of the stronger.

Is it "morally right" according to modern Judeo-Christian values? Of course not. But morals don't have anything to do with it.

If we need it, they have it, and we are strong enough to take it...we will.

So True...

"Might doesn't make right, but it surely makes what is." -Ed Abbey

[jbrovont]

Yeah - I know I can come off as an arrogant ass at times - it's not that I think I'm better or smarter or anything - it's just my twisted sense of poignant humor. I know it can be abbrasive but it's nothing personal. I'm just so deeply angered by some topics that I tend to shoot from the hip.

I really grow tired of the democrat/republican "thing." Rather I have come to view the political system from a new paradigm. Basically, you have your pimps, and your whores, and every few years we have a chamber of commerce mixer...

If anyone is "entitled" to it, it's people that got loaded into the breach and shot off to glory by BushCo.

and maintained there by the ObamaCo? Right?

Excellent way to put it, JB. I am of like mind. I was simply attempting to confirm that the previous post wasn't a misconception of the mixer.

[Homesteader]

Of course we're entitled to the oil contracts. It's funny that this is even a debate.

We defeated them in battle, we conquered their lands, and they have something we want. If this were any other time in history, we would take it and no one would bat an eyelash.

It is only this very recent concept of international liberal democracy that makes humanity think that justice is anything but the advantage of the stronger.

Is it "morally right" according to modern Judeo-Christian values? Of course not. But morals don't have anything to do with it.

If we need it, they have it, and we are strong enough to take it...we will.

This brings up an interesting ethic/morality discussion. As a point of debate I would put forth that those of us in the west have been brain washed to believe that our culture is the one right way to live. From that we believe that there is something wrong with people who don't want to live like us. We also think that with some education the grindingly poor of the world would be able to pull themselves up to an approximation of our standard of living, and all will be right with the world. That by some magic there are enough resources to provide these hundreds of millions (billions?) with a live of conumption and ease. We feel guilty that we have it better than them. We think that taking what is needed by force is wrong. Yet this is essentially a natural law. We think we are above natural law, and when those with the power follow the law, even if it benefits us, we are opposed to it.

Our culture is really a contradiction of terms.

[careinke]

This brings up an interesting ethic/morality discussion. As a point of debate I would put forth that those of us in the west have been brain washed to believe that our culture is the one right way to live. From that we believe that there is something wrong with people who don't want to live like us.

Thats amazing. I know for a fact that the vast majority of Saudi's I have met, feel exactly the same way about Western culture.

[Homesteader]

This brings up an interesting ethic/morality discussion. As a point of debate I would put forth that those of us in the west have been brain washed to believe that our culture is the one right way to live. From that we believe that there is something wrong with people who don't want to live like us.

Thats amazing. I know for a fact that the vast majority of Saudi's I have met, feel exactly the same way about Western culture.

Not so amazing really. I live in Kuwait btw. I would also posit that the two are more alike than different. The media simply hypes the slight differences to maintain an environment of fear. Makes the masses easier to manipulate.

Similarities:

1. Salvationist religions (one is the outgrowth of the other, same prophets etc. . .)
2. Same economic model/paper currency etc. ..
3. In order to buy food you either go to work or starve (unless you are a member of the elite)
4. Same education system
5. Same transportation system
6. Same consumer driven society

The differences don't amount to much more than the differences between New England WASPS and deep south rednecks. Maybe not even as much.

[rockdoc123]

We defeated them in battle

point of clarification.....it was a "coalition of the willing" which included the UK, BP's home country.
second point of clarification.....Us companies were able to bid for the contracts just like everyone else. Apparently they didn't like the deal.

[efarmer]

It seems like the deals are going to the entities that will buy the goods
without the strings attached of wanting to define and meddle in the buyer's culture. Imagine that.

Commerce always changes a culture over time, in a natural and peaceful
manner. I am not shocked that when you send in the troops to make the
way for business, you tend to have to keep them there in order to do any.
Perhaps our oil companies realize this and it makes the logistics of a
reliable deal go naughty in their corporate minds.

Thank God the Chinese are not like this, otherwise we would have to
speak Mandarin at Wal Mart.

Mr. Pickens, the idea of oil companies buying the government so the
military will work them is not working like it used to anymore.
Better ideas will come when you stop going long on the bad ones.


You all wanted a global market and now you have it. You really didn't
think the old 50's strategy would scale up that big, did you?

[crude_intentions]

Of course we're entitled to the oil contracts. It's funny that this is even a debate.

We defeated them in battle, we conquered their lands, and they have something we want. If this were any other time in history, we would take it and no one would bat an eyelash.

It is only this very recent concept of international liberal democracy that makes humanity think that justice is anything but the advantage of the stronger.

Is it "morally right" according to modern Judeo-Christian values? Of course not. But morals don't have anything to do with it.

If we need it, they have it, and we are strong enough to take it...we will.

I began reading the Satanic Bible last week. Half-way through I had the odd realization that "I've heard all this before". Then it dawned on me this is the philosophy of the modern day Conservative Republican party.

Hail Satan! Cheney/Palin 2012

[Tyler_JC]

I'm not advocating Imperialism.

I'm just saying that killing and taking is part of human nature. It's just what we do.

Morality tempers our desires but it doesn't abolish them.

[TheAntiDoomer]

BP, CNPC to Triple Output from Super-Giant Rumaila Field

http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp ... a_id=82039

The consortium led by BP (38 percent) with partners CNPC (37 percent) and the Iraq government's representative State Oil Marketing Organization (SOMO - 25 percent), has agreed to nearly triple the Rumaila field's output to almost 3 million barrels of oil a day (b/d), which would make it the world's second largest producing oil field.

[OilFinder2]

Italy's Eni also just signed a deal with Iraq for the 4-billion-barrel Zubar, with production pegged at 1+ million bpd from the current 195K bpd.

>>> LINK <<<

So, just between Rumalia and Zubar that's ~2.6 million new bpd which should be coming online in 7 years or thereabouts.

[Maddog78]

Exxon and Shell were the winners today. Lukoil not so much.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602099&sid=a2y878EVLz0o

Exxon, Shell Win Iraq’s West Qurna Oilfield Contract (Update3)
By Robert Tuttle

Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Iraq awarded a contract to develop the West Qurna oilfield to Exxon Mobil Corp. and Royal Dutch Shell Plc, a month before the country holds its second licensing round for oilfield contracts since the 2003 U.S. invasion.

The initial agreement, scheduled to be signed today, will be submitted to the Iraqi government for approval as early as next week, Asim Jihad, an Oil Ministry spokesman, said by telephone. The companies will be paid a fee of $1.90 a barrel for the oil they produce, he said, the maximum set by the government in a June licensing round. Exxon spokesman Patrick McGinn confirmed the agreement in an e-mailed statement today.

Earlier this week Iraq signed a contract with BP Plc and China National Petroleum Corp. to triple output at the Rumaila field to 2.85 million barrels a day. An Eni SpA-led group said in October it was awarded a license to develop the Zubair field.

“With these very encouraging examples, there will be a lot of interest in the second licensing round” in December, Samuel Ciszuk, an analyst at IHS Global Insight, said in a telephone interview.

Iraq, holder of the world’s third-largest oil reserves, aims to increase crude production to 6 million barrels a day by 2015. The country produced 2.45 million barrels a day last month, according to Bloomberg estimates.

In addition to Exxon and Shell, Iraq was in discussions with Russia’s OAO Lukoil, Total SA of France and CNPC for West Qurna, Abdul Mahdy al-Ameedi, deputy director general of Iraq’s Petroleum Contracts and Licensing Directorate, said last month.

Lukoil’s Loss

“It will be a big loss for Lukoil,” which did work on West Qurna when Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq, Ciszuck said. “They have really been eyeing this field.”

[OilFinder2]

>>> LINK <<<

Iraq oil deal puts pressure on Opec
By Carola Hoyos in London
Published: November 5 2009 19:34 | Last updated: November 5 2009 19:34

ExxonMobil and Royal Dutch Shell, the two biggest western oil companies, on Thursday won the right to develop Iraq’s giant West Qurna oilfield, raising the prospect of a big jump in Iraqi oil supplies.

[...]

Hussein Shahristani, Iraq’s oil minister, has said he is now confident that within seven to 10 years his country will be able to boost its production of little more than 2m barrels a day to almost 10m b/d, more than 10 per cent of today’s total global oil production. In the past, analysts doubted the target was achievable, mainly because of Iraq’s difficult security and political climate. But even they agree now that the big increase is feasible.

A recent note by PFC Energy, the industry consultants, points out that the extra oil which foreign energy companies such as Exxon, BP and Eni have promised to tease out of other Iraqi oilfields adds up to about 4.7m b/d, while the fields that are likely to go under the hammer at Iraq’s next oil auction will add at least another 3m b/d.

[...]

[LateGreatPlanetEarth]

if true, peak oil on decade hold. bidding going on right now to boost output.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 16598.html

[pstarr]

wiki: "30 bn barrels of oil in place" How much of that is recoverable? 70%?, or good for 9 months world consumption

[Cloud9]

That's why we are there. We are not interested in the world, the green machine needs fuel.

[eXpat]

At the moment the locals are a bit upset about letting multinats plunder their natural resources. Maybe you didn´t hear LateGreatPlanetEarth, but not a long time ago, it was an invasion to that country regarding that...

[mos6507]

Their natural resources aren't worth anything until they are sold off to the highest bidder. Any other growth industries in Iraq besides roadside bombs and undertakers?

[Plantagenet]

The oil industry in Iraq has never been modernized and little or no modern scientific work has been done utilizing modern geophysical and geological methods for oil exploration. There probably is a great deal of potential there for very significant production increases and perhaps even for the discovery of some major new oil fields.

[Tanada]

The oil industry in Iraq has never been modernized and little or no modern scientific work has been done utilizing modern geophysical and geological methods for oil exploration. There probably is a great deal of potential there for very significant production increases and perhaps even for the discovery of some major new oil fields.

I am willing to grant Iraq might be the new KSA in terms of resources and production for the 2010-2020 period.

Will it matter very much on the Hubbert downslope for conventional oil production?