THE Iran Thread pt 4 (merged)

[mos6507]

I don't think the opposition leader would be anybetter than the current guy.

I think he would. We don't need a saint in Iran. We just need someone who won't spark WWIII.

[NoWorries]

I think the original poster is jumping the gun here. The Iranian govt is not about to fall, and it is extremely unlikely that the current protests will amount to anything resembling a coup. The loser in these kinds of contests (self-styled "reformers" versus the old guard) often protest the outcome and allege corruption, but eventually they settle down and accept reality. These protests are unlikely to last much more than a week or so.

[Tyler_JC]

Mousavi could abandon the nutty Holocaust denial and anti-semitism of the current regime, stop the nuclear weapons program, drop Iranian sponsorship for Hamas and Hezbollah, and reduce the power of the Mullahs in Iran.

It would be hard to get a worse government in Iran then the one they currently have.

I agree with Plantagenet on this one.

The protesters aren't just against the current president, they are against the entire Iranian regime.

I've seen reports of students publicly denouncing the "supreme leader" and "death to the dictator". I have a feeling that this is bigger than a disputed election. If the Iranian dictatorship isn't able to crush the revolution quickly, they could be in trouble.

I'm hopeful that this will lead to positive change in Iran but I don't know enough about the inner dynamics of the country to know if this movement will succeed.

Is this Eastern Europe in 1989? I don't know...

[dorlomin]

I've seen reports of students publicly denouncing the "supreme leader" and "death to the dictator".

Because he has sided with the Prime Minister and interfered. The 'dictator' is Ahamadinejad.

[RdSnt]

Personally I think this is wonderful news for the world. The main state sponsor of terror and murder is coming apart. But what are the worldwide ramifications? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... /#comments

Well, yes it is a good thing that the US (the main state sponsor of terror and murder) is coming apart. The implications for Iran may be good or bad. If the US collapses quickly then it could be good for Iran. If the US collapses more slowly then that could be bad as it gives the US time to continue blaming everything on others.

[DrBang]

Does anyone here really think that every superpower in the world is not operating in Iran in context of subversive manipulation to support their agendas? Come on guys. Iran represents the last military threat in the Middle East (the largest patch of oil reserves on the planet) to US interests (at a time of approaching energy scarcity).

Who stirred up these riots anyway? This is a classic geopolitical manipulation strategy. There is a long history of political change as a consequence of behind the scenes subversive activity. Each major power in the world is guilty as hell in this.




Dr Bang

[Graeme]

The importance of Iran

Iran is one of the most energy rich countries in the world and a major player on the energy markets. Oil and natural gas reserves in Iran are among the largest on Earth. When oil prices were climbing to well over $100 a barrel, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had full coffers to carry out populist policies, pursue nuclear technology and fund its geo-political proxies like Hezbollah and the Iraqi Medhi Army.

Let us first examine the possibility of change in government. Should the protesters succeed in bringing Mr. Mousavi to power it would be the third revolution in less than sixty years in the country. A CIA backed coup in the 1950s installed the Shah of Iran into power, ousting a democratically elected government. The second revolution in the 1970s brought about the Islamic Republic. Should this movement turn into a revolution it would undoubtedly altar the way the country is run and have a ripple effect across the globe. Oil production from Iran altars the price of crude and subsequently what you pay at the pump. The potential of revolution is a big question mark as to how the country’s resources will be managed.

If the protests fail and President Ahmadinejad is installed at the legitimate head of state for another four year along with continued absolute authority in the hands of Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran will continue to be a disruptive force in the Middle East. Tensions with Israel and continued efforts to influence the political situation in Iraq will keep the region in the volatile state is has been in for years. Further sanctions from the UN over pursuit of nuclear technology are in the realm of possibility which would further complicate the capability of Iran to export its full capacity of energy production.

Iran is changing. Roughly 60% of the population there is under the age of thirty. Whatever the final outcome may be this round, the young people there have shown a side of Iran that bodes well for the future. A truly democratic, peaceful and stable Iran might just be over the horizon.

examiner

[WyoDutch]

Here we are again... cackling to one another about the "brave Iranian people" and how much they long for "freedom:.

Meanwhile, here in the Land of the Afraid... Home of the Scared, we Americans sit by with a thumb up our posteriors as our government monitors our phone calls... conducts sneak and peek raids... tortures suspects... holds citizens and non-citizens for years in solitary confinement.

Next election... go get a million of your closest friends and do what the Iranians are doing... You won't receive the gentle treatment that the Iranians are getting from their government. Your arse will be behind concertina wire... charged with terrorist activities.

[vision-master]

Here we are again... cackling to one another about the "brave Iranian people" and how much they long for "freedom:.

Meanwhile, here in the Land of the Afraid... Home of the Scared, we Americans sit by with a thumb up our posteriors as our government monitors our phone calls... conducts sneak and peek raids... tortures suspects... holds citizens and non-citizens for years in solitary confinement.

Next election... go get a million of your closest friends and do what the Iranians are doing... You won't receive the gentle treatment that the Iranians are getting from their government. Your arse will be behind concertina wire... charged with terrorist activities.

Let's C what happens after millions of Amerkcans lose unemployment benefits.

[deMolay]

The super powers of China and Russia are the ones who have been manipulating the Mullahs if anyone has. To say that the USA has murdered more people in the world than anyone else shows a clear lack of knowledge of history. Yes they have been bad boys. Have they murdered over 100 million people like the Communists of China and Russia and the Socialist's of Germany. No. Not even close. The Iranians have quite simply had enough of the Mullahs. This is a popular and widespread rejection of the Repressive Regime of the Islamic Republic. If anything the new Canadian technology Psiphon is causing the problems for the Mullahs Repressive Regime. The Mullahs have been jailing and murdering their citizens for 30 years. Every tiny aspect of the citizens life under a strict Islamic Shariah code of life is causing the Revolution this time. CNN seems to have the best coverage. http://www.cnn.com/

[deMolay]

You can read about the new Canadian Psiphon technology here. The Canadians have been meddling more than Obama. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Technology ... story.html

[bratticus]

Sesawe is an international consortium working to support uncensored access to the Internet >> https://www.sesawe.net/

[Graeme]

Bullets and Barrels

The popular uprising unfolding in Iran right now really is remarkable. It is the rarest of rare things — more rare than snow in Saudi Arabia, more unlikely than finding a ham sandwich at the Wailing Wall, more unusual than water-skiing in the Sahara. It is a popular uprising in a Middle Eastern oil state.

Why is this so unusual? Because in most Middle East states, power grows out of the barrel of a gun and out of a barrel of oil — and that combination is very hard to overthrow.

Oil is a key reason that democracy has had such a hard time emerging in the Middle East, except in one of the few states with no oil: Lebanon. Because once kings and dictators seize power, they can entrench themselves, not only by imprisoning their foes and killing their enemies, but by buying off their people and using oil wealth to build huge internal security apparatuses.

There is only one precedent for an oil-funded autocrat in the Middle East being toppled by a people’s revolution, not by a military coup, and that was in ... Iran.

I am rooting for them and fearing for them. Any real moderation of Iran’s leadership would have a hugely positive effect on the Middle East. But we and the reformers must have no illusions about the bullets and barrels they are up against.

nytimes

[dorlomin]

the Capitalists of Germany.

Fixed it for you are you grasp of history seems so tenuous.

[deMolay]

Cute little joke Dorlormin. Here is a link to the National Socialist Party or NAZI Party of Germany. Hitler was a butchering Socialist about 40 Million in total died because of his Insane Socialism. http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Natio ... alism.aspx The Commies Murdered over 100 Million more you can read about their butchery here. www.ninecommentaries.com

[deMolay]

A further update on the Crisis in Iran. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... le1191460/

[deMolay]

Rafsanjani ally calls for ‘political bloc’
By Najmeh Bozorgmehr and Roula Khalaf in Tehran

Published: June 21 2009 23:32 | Last updated: June 21 2009 23:32

A political party affiliated with Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani, the former president and key member of the Iranian regime, on Sunday called on Mir-Hossein Moussavi, the opposition leader, to form a “political bloc” that would pursue a long-term campaign to undermine the “illegitimate” government.

Hossein Marashi, spokesman for the Kargozaran, stayed clear of directly challenging the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, but told the Financial Times in a telephone interview that Mr Moussavi was now the leader of an opposition that was not without options.

EDITOR’S CHOICE
At least 10 dead in Iranian violence - Jun-21.Tensions deepen as UK rebuffs Tehran claims - Jun-21.Global Insight: Obama’s pragmatism avoids neocon trap - Jun-21.Protests over election result thunder on - Jun-21.Iran foreign minister sees more British agents - Jun-21.In depth: Iran election - Jun-14..His comments suggest that some in the opposition are looking at future strategies as they seek to capitalise on an extraordinarily passionate street movement but realise the regime is determined not to respond to protesters’ demands for an annulment of the results of the June 12 presidential poll, which declared Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad the winner.

“With the lack of legitimacy of the Ahmadi-Nejad government, sooner or later the country’s management will face various crises,” he said. “Mr Moussavi should set up an official political front which can embrace the defenders of the real Islamic republic . . . against those who are distorting it and are represented by Mr Ahmadi-Nejad.”

Mr Marashi said the front was his own proposal but that it was “most likely” to be adopted, even as the opposition continues to demand a rerun of the vote. Mr Rafsanjani, he said, would be able to help such a front from his “legal and political positions”.

Mr Marashi spoke after four of Mr Rafsanjani’s relatives were arrested during protests that turned bloody on Saturday. The opposition had defied warnings from Ayatollah Khamenei, who had also backed the outcome of the election in a speech on Friday.

Three of the relatives were released but Mr Rafsanjani’s most outspoken daughter, Faezeh, was still being interrogated on Sunday. Fars news agency insisted the detentions had been made to safeguard the women’s safety.

State television said that 10 people were killed in Saturday’s violence in Tehran, blaming the deaths on “armed terrorist elements”. Mr Moussavi, however, laid responsibility for the violence on the government and insisted that street protests should be pursued.

Adding to the tension, footage on the Facebook networking site showed a young woman supporter of Mr Moussavi being shot in the chest during the Saturday protests. The graphic footage, which was widely viewed, showed the woman dying in front of her father who desperately tried to save her.

Tehran was quiet on Sunday, but tensions remained high. Mohammad Khatami, the former reformist president, who has backed Mr Moussavi, warned that “preventing people from expressing their demands through civil ways will have dangerous consequences [for the country]”.

Mr Marashi said he doubted people were tiring of the demonstrations and predicted that they would find “new ways” to protest. “I must admit they are ahead of politicians and we are behind them,” he said.

But he said that was one reason that Mr Moussavi now had to lead by gathering all those in the opposition under one front.

Mr Moussavi, he added, was “not the leader of the opposition to the system. He is the leader of a majority who think their rights are trampled on by Mr Ahmadi-Nejad and the Guardian Council.”

.Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009

[deMolay]

The Story of Neda. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/ ... r.neda.cnn

[Keith_McClary]

On the idiot box tonight the talking heads were fretting about the evil ayatollahs brutally suppressing dissent, while in the background videos of demonstrators throwing rocks at police and burning buses and buildings.


If demonstrators were doing this in US or occupied Iraq or Palestine, they would be called "terrorists" and thousands would be massacred (remember Kent State and Fallujah ).

[rangerone314]

Why does it always devolve into a fight about Obama being a tool of the Illuminati or something and other people think he is our savior from Bush? People really expect to much.

Does anyone here know what a Plutocracy is? It is rule by the rich. It doesn't matter whether the puppet-master is Bush or Obama; and plutocracy is not some conspiracy -- it is simply people and companies looking after their money and interests. It isn't a conspiracy when people rush for the exits when there is a fire in a nightclub; they are all panicked animals acting on instinct. People moving in the same direction isn't always an Illuminati conspiracy.