[128shot]

The cool thing about living in Minnesota is I can buy and have an electric car shipped to me based on quite a few designs and they get decent miles per charge...I'm so thinking about it (if the rate ever gets above 300 miles to the charge, I'd do it in a heart beat, and I think this isn't off the road too far. Considering the advancements in not only home distrobution of electrical power but also in on road and battery tech)


What we really need though, is diesel powered carbon fiber bodied cars/trucks/whatever you name it...

[Frank]

...(if the rate ever gets above 300 miles to the charge, I'd do it in a heart beat...

Out of curiosity, why do you feel you need 300 miles/charge? I can see a future transportation scenario where most people own a smaller EV with 50 mile range (doable today at reasonable cost) with easily obtainable (for lease) hybrids or conventional vehicles for longer trips. That would work for an awful lot of people in North America.

[LadyRuby]

You guys really need to see www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com

[128shot]

Out of curiosity, why do you feel you need 300 miles/charge? I can see a future transportation scenario where most people own a smaller EV with 50 mile range (doable today at reasonable cost) with easily obtainable (for lease) hybrids or conventional vehicles for longer trips. That would work for an awful lot of people in North America.

Not everyone lives in the burbs


I'm rural America. Having a 300 mile to the charge would be great just because of where I live.

I saw this pretty cool compressed air powered car on the discovery science channel that used no oil and could be driven for 2 hours towing a 4 ton SUV. (its used in a Chinese dock)


Imagine the potential...

[Frank]

Thanks - I was just curious. We live in the boonies also but there's a grocery store 15 miles from here. I'm starting to plan a conversion that would allow 50 mile range, about the farthest we would need. 50 mile range is at 50% discharge so there's always a safety factor built in (at least that's what I'm telling my wife)...

If you ever find a link on that Chinese car, please post it. Someone in France is commercializing a design but I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as this sounds.

[captain_planet]

You guys really need to see www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com

If electric cars made money then I am sure it would have succeed. There are many car companies that would like to have a electric car, but it is too expensive and not really practical unless we have clean/cheap electricity.

[foo]

Amusing to read all you Americans rabbiting on about how you plan to continue your 50mile 70mph commute in 1 ton tanks.

Smallpoxgirl, you rock, I have so stolen your HelloKitty+AK74

Bring back the Trabant

I rode to work in cold rain on my bicycle today, mostly on the footpath, because tame cornucopeans were barrelling blindly down slick slopes in their tin tanks. Rain aint so bad, but I need new boots.

ps foo identity is from bugmenot, since peakoil's site registration is broken (looks immensely mpressive but)

[128shot]

Thanks - I was just curious. We live in the boonies also but there's a grocery store 15 miles from here. I'm starting to plan a conversion that would allow 50 mile range, about the farthest we would need. 50 mile range is at 50% discharge so there's always a safety factor built in (at least that's what I'm telling my wife)...

If you ever find a link on that Chinese car, please post it. Someone in France is commercializing a design but I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as this sounds.

heh, which one?

they're both french designs. The more well known one is the one that uses pistons and is rather weak and ineffecient.

The other is a lesser known design based on a tirbune design and has alot of powe (4 ton SUV towing, not bad ) and uses no oil because of its design is built to reduce friction by having parts not touch.

The link..can't find it, what on a discovery show called "beyond tommrow"

[Frank]

http://www.theaircar.com/

Well, here's a link to the one I know about. I'm an EV fan but we have to be open to all alternatives for personal transport.

[Wanderer]

http://www.theaircar.com/

Well, here's a link to the one I know about. I'm an EV fan but we have to be open to all alternatives for personal transport.

This is a interesting application of HPA technology, to get an idea of some of the challenges it would encounter do some research into paintball.

The tanks used in paintball can hold up to 4500 PSI and need to be hydro tested every few years.

HPA tanks need to be maintained correctly, getting the wrong type of material into the air system can cause reactions similar to the operation of a diesel engine.

I would be interested to see how they would design the tank to handle punctures that may occur in auto accidents.

[dagod1]

Does anyone have any ideas as to when toyota and or honda will bring one to the market. Since I know that ford and GM won't. They are only on the path to gas guzzling, these companies are bad investment. Ford stock is a laughable 6 bucks.

[rwwff]

I don't know about a sustained 100mpg; but PHEV ... I'm guessing with personal intent to buy in 2011... Five years.

[clv101]

What will power the plug in hybrid? I thought the US electrical grid was already at capacity and as natural gas declines over the coming decade there will be less electricity available not more... I don't see how plug in hybrids help.

[rwwff]

They help because they can do either, or, or both. That provides a leveling function to the energy puzzle. Besides, grids are only near max for brief periods of time, one could easily set a charge controller to feed the car only at night and early morning when the grid is no where near max.

[clv101]

They help because they can do either, or, or both. That provides a leveling function to the energy puzzle. Besides, grids are only near max for brief periods of time, one could easily set a charge controller to feed the car only at night and early morning when the grid is no where near max.

I accept the point on transmission capacity but what about fuel source? We can't burn any more gas, or increase the activity factor on the nuclear power stations... so we're left with coal.

Is it really a smart idea to burn coal through the night in a 35% efficient power plant 100 miles away to charge a car? The answer has to be no. Replacing 25mpg cars driving 12,000 miles a year with 50mpg cars driving 6,000 miles per year would reduce transport oil consumption by 75% using existing technology - that has to be a smarter idea that switching to coal.

[Fergus]

But when is detroit anyone gunna make 50-100 mpg vehicles that an average person can buy. When you see these project cars that get 1000 miles a gallon and such, there all $100,000+. Thats not practical either. Granted these are concepts and not a regular production model, but by the time they get to regular production, what will the manufacturing costs be?

Till theres a $10,000, 100 mpg gar available, looks like we are headed for a date with mass inconvenience and hardships. More of the same old,same old.

Seems as the price of oil goes up, any chance of building a decent car with decent gas milage for cheap is becoming a pipe dream. A 100 mpg car that cost $400,000 due to materials and inflation and transportation costs and such (all solely due to high oil prices) isn't gunna make a great dent in anything if only 2% of the pop can afford to drive it.

I am thinking we need these things like NOW, not in 5 years when the price of oil is $150.00 or more p/b. Too little too late maybe on this front?

[paoniapbud]

Some utilities will give you a break for non-peak useage. Most of them are smaller munincipality owned utilities. They replace the old-school analog power meter with a wireless demand meter.

This would be great for load leveling for utilities and allow most of us to plug in our cars.

Of course, on a practical level I must agree with you clv101 - the only way to expand electricity production in this country in the medium term is by burning more coal. Nuclear, is way on the horizon; solar and wind don't have the energy density to power all of our cars.

As a doomer I would have to say that we need not worry about plug in cars anyway. There won't be the energy or liquidity to redo our transportation to run on electric hybrids. Thus making my entire post moot!!

[clv101]

But when is detroit anyone gunna make 50-100 mpg vehicles that an average person can buy. When you see these project cars that get 1000 miles a gallon and such, there all $100,000+. Thats not practical either. Granted these are concepts and not a regular production model, but by the time they get to regular production, what will the manufacturing costs be?

Till theres a $10,000, 100 mpg gar available, looks like we are headed for a date with mass inconvenience and hardships. More of the same old,same old.

Seems as the price of oil goes up, any chance of building a decent car with decent gas milage for cheap is becoming a pipe dream. A 100 mpg car that cost $400,000 due to materials and inflation and transportation costs and such (all solely due to high oil prices) isn't gunna make a great dent in anything if only 2% of the pop can afford to drive it.

I am thinking we need these things like NOW, not in 5 years when the price of oil is $150.00 or more p/b. Too little too late maybe on this front?

It's not as unreasonable as you think... for the last two and a half years I've been driving an £11,000 (new price) car that does ~55mpg (UK). It also does 0-60mph in under 9 sec.

Today we can buy cars that do well over 60mpg for under £10,000. This is all available today with today's technology coming out of today's factories in mass volumes. In short we don't face a technology problem, we don't need plug in hybrids or even regular hybrids we as consumers just need to close the right vehicle from the showroom.

[rwwff]

so we're left with coal. Is it really a smart idea to burn coal through the night in a 35% efficient power plant 100 miles away to charge a car? The answer has to be no.

That has always been the plan, smart or not, its what we're going to do, because it is what we can do. You weren't imagining that the purpose of the PHEV was to reduce emissions, were you? To be fair, we are building more nukes down here, so some of those PHEVs will run on uranium.

Replacing 25mpg cars driving 12,000 miles a year with 50mpg cars driving 6,000 miles per year would reduce transport oil consumption by 75% using existing technology - that has to be a smarter idea that switching to coal.

Well, a PHEV will likely get 50mpg even without being plugged in, so there is that, if you wish to use it in such a way. I'm planning on buying one so I can drive more, not less.

[rwwff]

Till theres a $10,000, 100 mpg gar available, looks like we are headed for a date with mass inconvenience and hardships. More of the same old,same old.

Seems as the price of oil goes up, any chance of building a decent car with decent gas milage for cheap is becoming a pipe dream. A 100 mpg car that cost $400,000 due to materials and inflation and transportation costs and such (all solely due to high oil prices) isn't gunna make a great dent in anything if only 2% of the pop can afford to drive it.

You know there is a midde ground, sweet spot between $10k and $400k. Its $25k-$35k. (US$2006) Thats what people pay for their new vehicles these days. It is what I will pay for my next vehicle, which will likely be a PHEV, if only because its cool. I'm really kinda hoping BMW will deliver something by then; though I may stick with Toyota just because they've given me such reliable service in the past.

not in 5 years when the price of oil is $150.00 or more p/b. Too little too late maybe on this front?

Thats only $9 gallon gasoline. Thats a nuthin.