[mark]

Nothing happens on Wall Street the way the MSM reports it. (Bear Stearns) This has bothered me since Thursday.

Goldman is the biggest, strongest dog on the street, and, they're the most connected. So why did they crash the market on Thursday. They had to know that given the weakness of the market, their conviction" downgrade of GM and expectation of more losses at Merrill would tank equities. Goldman wouldn't do that alone, it had to be planned with the PTB.

Anyone else see a conspiracy here? Or am I spending too much time on the PO site?

[Homesteader]

I'm the least qualified to respond but it struck me as odd that they came out so strongly. Self-serving.

[aflatoxin]

Maybe they were just being honest.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that high fuel costs are going to kill any energy-related business that can't pass the higher costs to consumers. Especially fully commoditized businesses where alternatives exist both within and external to the "markets"

This list includes GM, F, whatever Chrysler calls itself these days, all major airlines, meat producers, factory farms, and numerous other businesses.

From the above basic industries, the derivitave businesses that keep fat 'mericuns driving their stupid gas pig SUV's to KFC, the Mall, Disneyworld, and suburbotopia are equally fckd.

I expect Goldman's list to get a lot longer. Anything less would be fiduciary malfesance. Hardly what one would expect from an institution of Goldmans' stature. This orginization caters to the truly rich and powerful. They have nothing to gain by catering to the hoi polli.

[threadbear]

Yeah, it seemed gratuitously nasty. Maybe they're shorting automakers. It's a massive conflict of interest for the media to use "analysts" from investment banks.

[bkwillia]

Thursday and Friday were the last two trading days of the 2nd quarter. Goldman knew that since there were no mergers or bail outs in this quarter, a lot of capital would have to be raised on the open market to cover payments coming due, and to balance the books. Accountants want to get their losses off the balance sheets so that the second half of the year looks positive. They down graded companies that obviously needed it to give themselves some credibility, since the sell off was coming anyway.

Even oil, gas and market leaders took losses. It was an across the board sell off, not bases on fundamentals of the individual company, but on the greater needs of the market for liquidity.

[mark]

There's an old saying in the market, "it's gotta go lower in order to go higher." Don't know if that applies here but it could. It's now common knowledge that the market is in trouble and gas prices are going higher. There's no better advertisement for a troubled economy than the market as the Dow's action gets splashed across all media. Perhaps Goldman crashed the market, shaking out the weak longs, to provide fuel for the rally.

I'm very suspicious of any major players action these days as we sometimes later learn the truth. Bear Stearns was not bailed out, as market commentators continue to spout, Goldman was given the keys to the vault (http://www.webofdebt.com/) It's all very interesting.

[roccman]

Goldman posts worst quarter since going public

[RSFB]

They did make a profit though, which in this day and age is (in my view) remarkable for a financial institution

[Tyler_JC]

More importantly they beat the street.

They single-handedly stopped the rout. The market will be down for the day but not by anything approaching 500 points.

The "crash" phase of this week is over.

That is, unless Morgan Stanley reports earnings that fall significantly below estimates on Thursday.

[AlexdeLarge]

KD made a good observation. Why did Buffet just write a 5 Billion dollar check to Goldman after closing today?? Is the fix In??? 5 Billion is serious money for even the oracle of omaha. Or is the bailout not even needed?

"Berkshire is buying $5 billion of perpetual preferred shares, New York-based Goldman said today in a statement. Goldman, which this week transformed itself from the biggest U.S. securities firm to the fourth-largest bank by assets, also plans to raise at least $2.5 billion by selling common stock in a public offering."


Institutionalized Fraud - Ben Bernanke Style


market ticker

[seldom_seen]

That's pretty simple to answer. About 90% of the crazy sh*t going on lately...outlawing short-selling, making goldman a bank by law, the bailout. Most of this is to position Goldman as "Last Man Standing" on the heap of smoldering banks. Goldman will pick through the rubble collecting the scattered treasures.

If the "bailout" passes, then Goldman basically owns the US treasury. What other bank is Berkshire going to invest in? There might not be any other banks soon.

[AlexdeLarge]

Paulson Calls In Buffet
"Very sad times. Remember the Maria Bartiromo interview with Buffet, when he slipped and said Paulson called him on the big Sunday a couple of weeks ago? Many people wondered why Paulson would call a private citizen to discuss Fed matters? Obviously, we now know.

Sham Deal - Buffet gets special stock with a 10% dividend and he gets the right to by another $5B at $115, when the stock was trading at $125 and the deal makers knew it would spike on this kind of news. So why didn't Goldman set a higher price on the stock? Buffet would have never done the deal. He probably cut this deal with Paulson himself when they spoke on that funky Sunday."

Behind Enemy Lines

[copious.abundance]

Why is it a big deal that it was announced after the close? Big financial announcements made after the close of trading are pretty routine. Many companies wait to announce their quarterly earnings until after a day's trading is over, for example.

[greenworm]

Paulson Calls In Buffet
"Very sad times. Remember the Maria Bartiromo interview with Buffet, when he slipped and said Paulson called him on the big Sunday a couple of weeks ago? Many people wondered why Paulson would call a private citizen to discuss Fed matters? Obviously, we now know.

And you believe this quote, hey, ya wanna buy a bridge?

ROTFLATU

[AlexdeLarge]

Because Buffet moves on solid information only. The bailout must be going through.........the hearings are a sham, a ruse, just a big show for the masses.

Would this still be a good deal if the bailout did not happen?

[greenworm]

Oh man, how do we wake this guy up? When you unscrammble benny's name you get break bank, get it? Mcfly, hello, Mcfly, it is all preplanned. Ah, forget it, you're hopeless, back to the tv set with you.

[copious.abundance]

I see conspiracy theories are alive and well on this forum.

Buffet is no idiot. Would he have bought 10% of Goldman without the impending bailout? Probably not. But since the bailout is about to happen, thus helping Goldman's prospects, you can't blame the guy for taking advantage of what he probably sees as a good deal.

[MOCKBA]

Sham Deal - Buffet gets special stock with a 10% dividend

US Government got better deal on AIG lending at 11%.

and he gets the right to by another $5B at $115,

And Goldie has the right to buy back the first $5B with 10% premium to cover Buffet funding costs...

Buffet is not a raider so the deal could have been better but clearly Goldie was selected to be the last bank standing... Buffet would make hist couple billions and.... when is he up for retirement?

IMHO however Buffet move raise a question is $700B bailout truly needed? Some type of bailout would surely happen but I think they would settle on a bit less then $0.5T or a bit less then Pentagon budget for the next year.

[seldom_seen]

There's also the other side of the coin. Extortion.

Is it not possible that Lord Paulson went to Buffet and said "My consolidation of power is nearly complete. Soon we will have the Treasury. You saw what we did to Bear Stearns and then Lehman. If you don't want Berkshire on the short list you better pay up and pay up good Nebraska boy."

[jbrovont]

Either way this stinks. I agree with Alex: Buffet doesn't bet. He moves on information and strategy. Whether he was tipped, or had his arm twisted, you don't bet $5 Billion on a bank that may or may not exist in a week. You don't even risk 10% on $5 Billion.

There's also the other side of the coin. Extortion.

Is it not possible that Lord Paulson went to Buffet and said "My consolidation of power is nearly complete. Soon we will have the Treasury. You saw what we did to Bear Stearns and then Lehman. If you don't want Berkshire on the short list you better pay up and pay up good Nebraska boy."