THE Goat Thread (merged)

[Ludi]

Sheep only have lowers also.....




Some sheep graze, others prefer to browse.

[Pops]

Thanks Ladies, stick around, PO.com is gonna need your knowledge.

[taizy8]

...my Dad tells me that during the war (WW2... "The Emergency" ) my grandmother not caring what the neighbors thought, kept a pig in her yard in a rural town. Apparently it would keep it's own living quarters very clean. I'm sure "it" got turned into bacon at some stage.

My brothers pigs were called "Bacon" and "Cabbage"

[Ang]

Thank you Everybody!!!!!!!!!

Rocc and I got up early this morning and put together a pen for the piglets right next to the buck pen. Everybody has their own space and seems to be very happy. We picked up a new Nubian to add to our herd so Rocc is now busy enlarging the goat area. All of the vegetables and herbs and trees and berries look very perky as well.

As always, I am grateful for the advice!!!

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ang,
I think you'll love your new Nubian. (you have all mini's so far, right?) Nubians have such wonderful personalities, and they are just loudmouths I love mine. If she's a good milker, you should get close to a gallon a day out of her by the time she's a second freshener.
Kathy

[Ang]

Hi Kathy,

We now have 3 Nubians and 2 Nigerians. We are planning on breeding all of them (October??) this year. Our buck is a Pygmy so he's going to need a pinch hitter to come in for the Nubians, isn't he???

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ah, I didn't know you had other nubians You've expanded on me when I wasn't looking, lol

Actually, a Pygmy/Nubian cross is it's own breed - called Kinders google them. They're cuties He can do the deed if he's determined enough. But of course, a Nubian buck would have a much easier time. That being said, Nubian bucks can get VERY large, so be sure you have help handling him, and try to get one that is a bottle baby and gentle. My buck, Ringo, is close to 200 lbs, but can pull like he's 400. He's MUCH stronger than the does (and Cinnamon is 160 lbs, so he's not a lot bigger). Thankfully he's pretty gentle and easy to work with. But even with that, Carlin still helps me with him when I'm needing to trim feet and so on.
Kathy

[Ludi]

With sheep, rams aren't supposed to be bottle babies, because it makes them aggressive toward people. So that's an interesting difference between goats and sheep. Our ram was a pet and he is extremely dangerous. Too friendly, one might say.

[Ang]

I just Googled the Kinder goats...I guess we are onto something! Will I need to get Jeb a stepladder??
BTW, do we need to get him a buddy? I know that goats usually like company but I hate to think of having to feed a whether just so Jeb can have a friend? We don't want TWO bucks, do we? A neighbor of ours has a pygmy buck she wants to sell so there is one available nearby but.....

I guess I'm still on the wrong side of this learning curve!

TY!

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ludi,
I didn't know that about rams. Interesting. You'd think it would be the opposite.

Ang,
I agree with Shanny. A wether is a nice companion, but isn't totally necessary. Of course, goats are herd animals, so they like to be able to be with their own kind. If you don't want to keep a wether, then at least have the buck across the fence from the girls (minimum chain link or small welded wire, so you don't have breeding accidents), so he doesn't get lonely. That's what we've done with Ringo and he's been fine.

Two bucks will fight until they get used to each other if you pen them together. If you want to get the other buck, you could run them in pens side by side to keep each other company - sharing a common fence. Lots of folks do this and it works well. This is what we're planning with our new buckling.

One reason for getting the other buck...
Unless you're planning to sell or eat all the offspring, (bucks and does alike) I'd encourage you to think down the road a bit. If your does have doelings you want to keep, you can't breed them back to their sire. A grand-sire, is okay, but the sire is too close. That's why we bought our second buckling. He'll be the "other" buck, so we can breed Ringo's daughters to him.

Hope this helps. Oh, and btw, don't feel bad about being on the uphill side of the learning curve. I've had goats now for 3 years, and I've probably learned more in the last 9 months than I did all the previous time. I learn something new everyday
Kathy

PS - to the mods - think we should merge this in with the "goats and sheep" thread?

[Ludi]

It was only when it was far too late that I learned about the "don't make friends with the ram" rule. Ours had been the pet of the breeder's daughters, and we thought it was cute that he liked to be scratched and made a fuss over. But when he matured, he started ramming us - he's knocked me down a few times and given me some really bad bruises. So now we never pet him, but the damage has been done. Eventually we'll probably have to sell him or, what would be more responsible, put him down. It's not his fault, and he isn't mean, he just doesn't know how to express himself properly. The other sheep are completely safe, though a bit wild.

[Ang]

I guess I'll talk to Rocc about a whether as company for Jeb. We put him in the back forty because of his questionable odor so he's all by his lonesome. The 2nd buck idea is great, but it's too soon for that, I think.

Our new goat Matilda is a riot, she's already part of the herd.

Our little does were born Nov. of last year, I've read that you can breed them at one year old but some wait until 1 1/2 years old. What is a good age to breed for the first time???? Also, my Nigerian was "talking" today. Moving her lips and making talking sounds!!! Could this be a sign that she wants to visit Jeb's "Love Shack"??

You're right Kathy, I should have asked this in the goat thread.

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ang,
I understand what you mean about the second buck being too soon. We didn't get our first buck for the first two years, and it was only after this year's breedings produced doelings we wanted to keep that we even considered it. As it is, he's a baby, and won't be doing his job till next summer

Nubians can breed anytime of the year, but I don't know about Nigerians. Some breeds are seasonal breeders, only breeding in the fall of the year (LaManchas are like that). I'd think about when the babies would be born. If she ended up pregnant this month, it would throw her having babies in November - not too bad. Either early spring or early fall is generally best. You want to avoid temperature extremes. Either too hot or too cold is too hard on the babies. Check her vulva. Is it swollen and red? Is there any discharge? If so, she may be in heat. That's another reason for having the buck close by, of course. He will definitely let you know when she's in heat .

As for when they can breed, most people say they should be at least (for a full-sized goat) 8 months or 80 pounds. Personally, though, I would wait. Breeding a doe too young, before she's even done growing herself, could stunt her growth. And a small first freshener will be more likely to have delivery problems.

Cinnamon's babies were born May 12. I don't plan on having them bred until next summer for fall kids. Though technically they could be bred sooner, I feel safer waiting.

Hope this helps,
Kathy

[Ang]

Thanks All!!

I was thinking to breed them all in October, I guess common sense would be to see if Lucy and Charlie are about the size of the adult does by that time and then decide if we breed them or not.

I have a full week to work outside starting today!!!!!! The weather is gorgeous, all the animals are happy and everything is blooming and thriving. Apocalypse or no apocalypse, it's a great day to be alive!!!!!

Ang.

[dinopello]

Today is the day that the county board decides if the goats can stay.

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ang,
I think I read in another thread that one of your dogs killed a goat. Was it your goats or someone elses (now I'm second guessing myself. It was late when I read that...)?

If it was yours, I just wanted to say sorry to hear about that. My boxer mix obsesses over the babies, but doesn't seem interested in the adult goats, so I worry constantly and keep a very close eye on him. Was it one of the smaller ones? or one of your nubians? I know, it doesn't matter and I'm sure you're heartbroken about it. Just wanted to send you a virtual hug.

I hope everything is going well with the rest of the goats.

(and, btw, if it was someone else's goats and not Ang's, then the condolences go to you too.... sorry I have sometimer's and can't remember what I read sometimes )

Everyone here is doing well for the moment. All the babies are growing nicely and my new little herd sire is growing like a weed, too. These days it's just maintenance with the goats, milking, bottle feeding (two of the six babies) and keeping up with feet, shots, etc... they do keep me busy even with just the maintenance stuff, though.

I honestly don't know how people do it who have large numbers of goats. I have four adults and six babies now and that's about all I can handle.
K

[TommyJefferson]

Goats are a royal pain in the butt. They tear up everything.

Cabrito tastes funky.

Sheep are nicer and taste better.

[Mominator]

My human kids are harassing me otherwise I'd read the whole thread before asking. Has sustainable feeding been covered in this thread? It seems that every book I read indicates that a portion of goat diet needs to come from commercial pellets and I want to know what alternatives exist.
Thanks

[CarlinsDarlin]

Has sustainable feeding been covered in this thread?

Not really, no. Not in any depth, rather. I don't feed pellets, though. My girls get a grain mixture of mostly oats and black oil sunflower seeds. I do throw in a bit of chopped corn and a little bit of Calf Manna (which I guess is a pellet, but it's such a small amount that it could be left out. I just add it because it includes anise oil and it smells good lol)

I also feed alfalfa pellets, but that's because we cannot get good quality alfalfa hay around here. For meat goats, such a rich diet isn't absolutely necessary - they can do much better on browse and hay alone. Dairy goats have much a much higher calcium requirement, hence the alfalfa. Eventually I hope to be able to plant a field of alfalfa so we can harvest our own hay. Other good alternatives include any type of legume hay - peanut hay has been used with good success.

On a goat forum I participate in, this has been discussed some, but it hasn't been covered as much as I would like. If you have any ideas, I'd be open to hearing them myself. From what I know, it's more important that the nutrient balance is correct than if you have any one particular nutrient, i.e., calcium. If one cannot get grain at all, you can raise goats without it, but milk prodcution will suffer.
Kathy

[Mominator]

Thanks for the reply
I managed to get thru page 9 of this thread and there's a lot of good info and gorgeous goats in here!
I like the idea of giving them legume hay. I intend to increase my bean production and it seems that the spent bean plants give a tremendous ammt of material. I just compost it now, but if it makes good goat food I don't think the compost will suffer.