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THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 13:23:17

I'll leave the troll feeding to others.

On the main question of the thread:

Increased water vapor has a complex effect on warming and cooling, but the first and most important thing to remember is that water vapor is by far the most important green house gas on the planet.

When that vapor turns into certain kinds of clouds, yes, it can act to increase albedo and reflect some light.

But there is another important point to remember about what quite predictable about our globally warmer future--that it will be...wait for it...

warmer.

So most of that additional water vapor, too, will be warmer.

And when it comes to water vapor, warmer means more transparent to the visible light spectrum. That means less reflective clouds and more just hot, humid, heatwave-reflecting, transparent air.

That is why most climatologists see increased (and increasingly warm and transparent) water vapor as a very powerful net "positive" feedback for global warming:
the more vapor there is,
the more the earth warms,
making yet more--and more transparent, less reflective--vapor,
causing yet more warming,
causing more vapor....

Where that wheel stops turning is anyone's guess. Probably before all the oceans boil away, but who knows?

OK, dissident, dorlomin, tanada, cid, and other informed folks, please chime in if I missed anything (I'm sure I did).

Trolls may remain silent, thank you.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 14:47:12

Clouds prevent heat loss from the lower atmosphere at night.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby pablonite » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 15:09:34

Heh, dorlomin. I had to laugh, it looks like the "no such thing as a conspiracy in my world" camp are making great progress in the animated gif department!

The question is do you support a one world government or not? If you are actually questioning the current formation of such a government then I am here to help : )

Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order. In the words of Winston Churchill, a "world order" in which "the principles of justice and fair play ... protect the weak against the strong ..." A world where the United Nations, freed from cold war stalemate, is poised to fulfill the historic vision of its founders. A world in which freedom and respect for human rights find a home among all nations

Bush's 11 September 1990 "Toward a New World Order" speech

It would seem that men and women need a common motivation, namely a common adversary, to organize and act together in the vacuum such as motivation seemed to have ceased to exist or have yet to be found. The need for enemies seems to be a common historical factor…

Bring the divided nation together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose…

Democracy will be made to seem responsible for the lagging economy, the scarcity and uncertainties. The very concept of democracy could then be brought into question and allow for the seizure of power by extremists of one brand or the other…
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. The real enemy [of the elites and their minions] then is humanity itself.”

“The First Global Revolution” (1991) published by the Club of Rome. Members of the Club of Rome include: Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Bill Gates, George Soros and author of the Kyoto Protocols Maurice Strong.

Lore, you seem rabid about the whole subject of "climate change"? I'll try to dig that info up for you!
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby hardtootell-2 » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 15:19:36

Heineken wrote:
hillsidedigger wrote:As well, human activity is injecting considerable amounts of smoke, soot, ash and dust into the atmosphere resulting in what some call 'global dimming'.


Since global dimming depends on human economic activity, which in turn depends on intensive energy use, it makes us more vulnerable, not less, to global warming in the long run.


Welcome back Heineken!
Its been a long time. How goes the battle?
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby pablonite » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 16:36:38

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=af3_1228946683
The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore. Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke out in 2007. The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers.

Here is a quote that identifies the main problem with the IPCC and anything coming out of the UN mouthpieces in general, it's all about the money right now...

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson

or more on topic...

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

There are a mess of quotes in this link by qualified individuals, if they don't raise any doubt in your mind then you just need more time to see what you are reaping?

Perhaps starting with some of your own research and application of critical thought towards our media and newspaper ownership will allow you to at least start checking first where your information is really coming?

It is called manufacturing consent, they can and do tell you what to think, as far as this particular issue is concerned, Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan says it best...

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.”

Hey Lore, hope you are ready to practice what you preach and don't suffer too much cognitive dissonance when it becomes obvious that the handful of puppet masters orchestrating this farce are most definitely not.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Lore » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 17:39:00

pablonite wrote:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=af3_1228946683
The UN global warming conference currently underway in Poland is about to face a serious challenge from over 650 dissenting scientists from around the globe who are criticizing the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore. Set for release this week, a newly updated U.S. Senate Minority Report features the dissenting voices of over 650 international scientists, many current and former UN IPCC scientists, who have now turned against the UN. The report has added about 250 scientists (and growing) in 2008 to the over 400 scientists who spoke out in 2007. The over 650 dissenting scientists are more than 12 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers

Here is a quote that identifies the main problem with the IPCC and anything coming out of the UN mouthpieces in general, it's all about the money right now...

“Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson

or more on topic...

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

There are a mess of quotes in this link by qualified individuals, if they don't raise any doubt in your mind then you just need more time to see what you are reaping?

Perhaps starting with some of your own research and application of critical thought towards our media and newspaper ownership will allow you to at least start checking first where your information is really coming?

It is called manufacturing consent, they can and do tell you what to think, as far as this particular issue is concerned, Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan says it best...

“CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.”

Hey Lore, hope you are ready to practice what you preach and don't suffer too much cognitive dissonance when it becomes obvious that the handful of puppet masters orchestrating this farce are most definitely not.


This is all you could come up with? Snippets of uncorrelated passages from Senator Inhofe’s 700 minority report and its author Marc, the moron, Morano, now with his own denialist blog, Climate Depot? Rather pathetic.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? ... 9FAF4DCDB7

This illustrates what a sham the report is, and why it has gotten so little traction. For instance, your first quote from Dr. Joanne Simpson, (retired); “Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” So in other words, she was skeptical before and remains so? Doesn’t sound like she defected, now does it?

Many of the other quotes are plucked from their sources with similar questionable context and used by Morano’s propaganda outlets. Also, which ones were suppose to be the IPCC defectors?

Writing in the New York Times, Leslie Kaufman noted that Morano, while working for Inhofe, had authored a report titled More than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims. One of those cited in the report was Steve Rayner, from Oxford University. However, Rayner -- who doesn't dispute global warming though has been critical of the Kyoto Protocol -- described his inclusion as “quite outrageous" and had asked for his name to be removed from the report. Despite being told by an Inhofe staffer that it would be removed, it hasn't. Morano is unrepentant , claiming instead that Rayner must be "not to be remembering this clearly."



Speaking of checking your information, were you even aware where this information came from and how it was gathered? I’m sure you were, in failing to post the actual link to it.

I guess the handful of puppet masters must include almost every international government scientific institution and academy and their many thousands of legitimate scientists affiliated with them. Your paranoia must know no bounds?
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Heineken » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 20:57:50

To those friends who've commented on my presence in this thread: thanks.

I've been sick with a nerve condition in my arms that affects my ability to type. Perhaps I will recover, but it's slow going.

I miss you all.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 07:30:24

Inhofe & Morano are both oil industry pimps. They are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Inhofe's Nascar jacket would have lots of oil industry sponsor patches.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

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Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Lore » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 20:05:41

Heineken wrote:To those friends who've commented on my presence in this thread: thanks.

I've been sick with a nerve condition in my arms that affects my ability to type. Perhaps I will recover, but it's slow going.

I miss you all.



Sorry to hear about your affliction ole buddy, get well soon! I miss your input.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby pablonite » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 22:24:31

Lore wrote:Your paranoia must know no bounds?

Correct, I don't think you can be too paranoid. It really kicked in when I started researching our monetary system. Money is important yeah? We are both literate but ever wonder why we were never taught monetary theory in our educational system? Can you answer this very simple question with any accuracy - Where does money come from?

I believed Al Gore when I first saw his blockbuster global warming flick. Shortly before that I remember doing some googling and coming to a conclusion that the debate was over and "global warming" was real and imminent. It seemed a consensus had been reached among every "climate" scientist in the world at one point.

I then came upon a video called "Global Warming or Global Governance", and then another, "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and spent quite a few hours checking the other side of the story. It didn't take too long to change my view.

I have spent many hours researching the Illuminati and their coming New World Order or One World Government. The climate change meme is a perfect fit for their agenda. You can see it unfolding in a thousand ways everyday, you see the message being pushed in almost every article in the mainstream news which they have owned for a very long time now. Paranoia? Tinfoil? Conspiracy Theorist?. They keep you in your box with those thought stoppers.

Hey, maybe we can agree on one thing, peak oil is real yeah?

So why doesn't the mainstream media cover peak oil with as much vigor as climate change? IMHO, they are covering peak oil - but they call it climate change for one obvious reason. It's hard to justify the wests current resource wars when your blasting the people with a "peak oil" message. It's much easier when you call it climate change. Oh, one other thing, there is no money in the peak oil story, plenty to be made from a ficticious climate change boogeyman and its resulting "cap and trade" economy.

You can check out the other side yourself, I am sure you are savy enough. When I see people like you defending a theory with such intensity it only confirms why own belief that the sheer brainwashing power of our modern media cannot be underestimated. Like I said, I know, I believed, I woke up: )

In the end, what we say here is of very little relevance to the big picture. Have a good day!
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 22:30:19

Hey, Heini. Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby jbrovont » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 23:50:52

A scientist, in the broadest sense, refers to any person that engages in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge or an individual that engages in such practices and traditions that are linked to schools of thought or philosophy. In a more restricted sense, scientist refers to individuals who use the scientific method.[1] The person may be an expert in one or more areas of science.[2] This article focuses on the more restricted use of the word.


See the problem here? If it's not your personal area of expertise, how are you going to know the difference? This conversation is all about how you judge the reliability of the information you're exposed to.
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Re: Global Clouding defeating Global Warming?

Unread postby Koyaanisqatsi » Sun 05 Jul 2009, 02:49:32

Heineken wrote:To those friends who've commented on my presence in this thread: thanks.

I've been sick with a nerve condition in my arms that affects my ability to type. Perhaps I will recover, but it's slow going.

I miss you all.


I don't think you know me, Heineken, but welcome back!

Have you tried voice recognition software?
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Re: THE Global Dimming Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 10 Aug 2010, 19:50:38

You know when the world economy took a dive in 2008 many of us believed that China's decline would lead to far less global dimming as their less efficient coal powerplants would be shut down in favor of the more efficient more modern ones.

Fortunately this does not seem to have taken place, though I have yet to see any actual scientists commenting on it.
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An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby Kylon » Mon 25 Apr 2011, 14:27:29

Summary-My idea is to use the process of atmospheric ionization to cause global dimming, which would in turn mitigate many of the negative effects of global warming.

Before you read this post you might want to read this article about the use of atmospheric ionization to cause cloud particulation and ultimately rain. Daily Mail

My idea is to use the same process to generate negative ions to increase cloud particulation for the purpose of inducing global dimming via increasing cloud reflectivity and decreasing water vapor(a potent greenhouse gas) in the air thereby mitigating global warming.

Storing postive ions generated in the ionization process in containers could extend the effects to make them semi-permanent, because the electrons in the negative ions wouldn't have has many positive charges to return too, thereby keeping many of the negative ions negatively charged, and making the global dimming process semi-permanent.

Because all this takes is energy and atmospheric gases(which there is an abundant supply of), then the process is more scalable, and hypothetically, cheaper, than the use of sulfides mined out of the Earth.
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Re: An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 26 Apr 2011, 14:53:58

"All this takes is energy"

Well, then there is no problem at all, since we have limitless amounts of energy!
:razz:

But really, clouds are the perhaps the most complex part of climate, and claiming that you know for sure what the exact effect your clouds will have is...well, let's just call it unwarranted confidence.

One thing you might look into--Hansen, perhaps the world's leading expert on planetary climate systems, thinks that run away global warming (the Venus Syndrome) might be driven specifically by the wrong kind of clouds forming at the wrong level of the atmosphere (iirc).

Better make sure your clouds are the right kind and stay at the right level.
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Re: An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby jupiters_release » Tue 26 Apr 2011, 15:54:36

No shame in desperate hubris. :roll:

Denial phase still.
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Re: An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 26 Apr 2011, 16:17:11

It would make for more exciting weather:

People living in Abu Dhabi were baffled by the rainfall which sometimes turned into hail and included gales and lightening.


Negative ions will also make us peppy and energetic, useful as we dodge blowing debris and lightening bolts.
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Re: An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby anador » Tue 26 Apr 2011, 21:35:45

Kylon wrote:Storing postive ions generated in the ionization process in containers could extend the effects to make them semi-permanent


As I recall this didn't work too well in the Matrix...
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Re: An Idea On How to Mitigate Global Warming

Unread postby no_wuckin_ferries_mate » Tue 26 Apr 2011, 22:30:19

I can't believe there are still people believing that BS warming fairy tale of the nuclear industry.

I live in Australia and spend lots of time in Europe, neither here nor there is any warming. The difference is, however, in Europe most people seem to understand now that they have fallen prey to some scam, while in Australia we are still believing the warmista mantra. Most people here are not interested anyway what goes on around them. We have other problems like how long should the next powerboat be, and should we buy house number 7 for an investment now or only in July.

I can only imagine the nuclear guys who designed the climate hype decades ago to promote their misantrophic technology read your idea keep rolling on the floor laughing about how nicely it all works out.

If you work out so nice and elaborate ideas why don't you do that in regards to the real problems we are facing? Ever heard of peak oil or energy scarcity?
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