THE Gas Station Thread (merged)

[vision-master]

1st off. The station dosen't charge you 4% for using a card, the credit card company does. 2cd. Credit cards are evil. Period! Cut em up. NOW. If'n you don't have the cash, DON'T BUY! You are rasing prices for the cash & carry folk. We hate your kind!

1st off, Kiss my ass. I am going to ride the wave as long as possible. Pay at the pump allows me to sidestep all the lottery hopefuls and avoid the mind-numbing crap in the "convenience marts" to get the only thing I came for - gasoline. 2nd, I have the cash because I pay my bill in full each month. I use a card because the card gives me a 5% rebate on all that gas every month. Since I would have paid cash for it anyway, and not received anything back, I would have to be a fool to turn away 5% back of what I've used. 3rd off, the station I'm talking about DOES charge 4% - they have signs all over their pumps that they are going to add 4% to your bill. What they do with that 4% is their business, whether they're using it to help offset their CC fee cost (which should be less than 4% - I have our contract at work and it is less than 4%), or just using it to discourage card use. This fee is against their contracts with the card companies. If they don't like the fee, what they should do is simply do away with accepting cards.

Don't forget to use that "card" for Strarbucks coffee too!

Nice.........

Ed Yingling, incoming president of the American Bankers Association, tells FRONTLINE that revolvers are "the sweet spot" of the banking industry. This "sweet spot" continues to grow as the average credit card debt among American households has more than doubled over the past decade. Today, the average family owes roughly $8,000 on their credit cards. This debt has helped generate record profits for the credit card industry -- last year, more than $30 billion before taxes.

[advancedatheist]

I have a feeling this depends upon the part of the country that you live in. In my part of the world these jobs are not taken by illegals. They are taken by kids in High School, adults without any education beyond H.S. and the occasional retired man or woman. The occasional large dairy farm hires immigrants (though more hire the folks like I described above) and we still have a lot of Quiki Marts

The quality of immigrants, determined by their culture, makes all the difference. If we could replace the entire illegal Mexican population in the U.S. with the entire population of Taiwan (both figures in the 20 million range), the Taiwanese would more than pay for themselves in a matter of years. Confucian culture works a lot better in the modern economy than the dysfunctional Counter-Reformation Spanish culture that got implanted in Mexico and other Latin American countries in the 16th Century. (Ironically this culture has largely disappeared in Spain, which now behaves like more efficient northern European countries.)

[Plantagenet]

The quality of immigrants, determined by their culture, makes all the difference. If we could replace the entire illegal Mexican population in the U.S. with the entire population of Taiwan (both figures in the 20 million range), the Taiwanese would more than pay for themselves in a matter of years. Confucian culture works a lot better in the modern economy than the dysfunctional Counter-Reformation Spanish culture that got implanted in Mexico and other Latin American countries in the 16th Century. (Ironically this culture has largely disappeared in Spain, which now behaves like more efficient northern European countries.)

Good points. Excellent post.

The premise of US immigration policy has always been that the US would inculcate the "protestant work ethic" in any new immigrant population and absorb them into the mainstream of US society after one generation. This isn't working very well with the current huge wave of 12-20 million illegal immigrants.

[wisconsin_cur]

I have a feeling this depends upon the part of the country that you live in. In my part of the world these jobs are not taken by illegals. They are taken by kids in High School, adults without any education beyond H.S. and the occasional retired man or woman. The occasional large dairy farm hires immigrants (though more hire the folks like I described above) and we still have a lot of Quiki Marts

The quality of immigrants, determined by their culture, makes all the difference. If we could replace the entire illegal Mexican population in the U.S. with the entire population of Taiwan (both figures in the 20 million range), the Taiwanese would more than pay for themselves in a matter of years. Confucian culture works a lot better in the modern economy than the dysfunctional Counter-Reformation Spanish culture that got implanted in Mexico and other Latin American countries in the 16th Century. (Ironically this culture has largely disappeared in Spain, which now behaves like more efficient northern European countries.)

All well and good; may or may not be true I am not an expert on South American sociology. It, of course, ignores my post. It feels as if you were universalizing a local phenomenon when you complained that we have too many retail outlets because of our immigration problem. I merely observed that we have a lot of retail outlets too yet not really too many Latin American immigrants. I am doubting the connection between immigration policy and retail density.

It sounds as if you are willing to go from one complaint to another (first retail density and now immigration). All well and good, lets just be straight forward about it. Surely one so self-assuredly advanced can accept that proposition.

[jdmartin]

Don't forget to use that "card" for Strarbucks coffee too!

Nice.........

Ed Yingling, incoming president of the American Bankers Association, tells FRONTLINE that revolvers are "the sweet spot" of the banking industry. This "sweet spot" continues to grow as the average credit card debt among American households has more than doubled over the past decade. Today, the average family owes roughly $8,000 on their credit cards. This debt has helped generate record profits for the credit card industry -- last year, more than $30 billion before taxes.

I don't understand, wtf is your point? Yes, Americans are deeply in debt. Yes, they have a boatload of credit cards and some (many?) use them irresponsibly. Without those credit cards, I promise that it's highly unlikely that either one of us would have a job, so get off your sanctimonious high horse. You think Americans would be able to keep the economy running and continue purchasing this mountain of shit without credit cards?

Would the country and average American be better off in the long run without credit cards? No doubt, at least in my mind. But in the short term, meaning quite a number of years, you're talking about massive chaos and mayhem, a destroyed economy, and ridiculous levels of unemployment. Besides, lest you forget, even the credit card companies and banks employ a mountain of people, even if you and I think it's in less-than-honorable fields of employment.

IF you know how to use a credit card, and use the bank to your advantage, a credit card can be a great tool. Who's going to give me 5% back on my gas purchase if I'm paying cash? No one. If I buy an item over the internet and I get screwed, do they have my money or the credit card company's money?

Frankly, the only reason I'm able to use a credit card in such a manner is because most people exist on revolving terms. Otherwise, the CC company wouldn't be able to give me that gas rebate, or let me use their money for free, since I pay my cards in full each month.

I agree that there's a certain comfort in having no debt. But don't confuse that with being smart and knowing how to position yourself in a prudent manner within this economy. Besides, if you're truly a doomer, you'd be using CC's with abandon, because you really think they'll be able to collect 5% of what they're owed if the economy goes into the shitter?

[billyk]

Ever notice that all gas stations price their gas within a few pennies of each other? I just drove 20 miles & passed 12 stations & nobody was more than 3 cents in price difference. It seems that as soon as someone increases their price the others follow. What a business! billyk

[Tyler_JC]

Ever notice that all gas stations price their gas within a few pennies of each other? I just drove 20 miles & passed 12 stations & nobody was more than 3 cents in price difference. It seems that as soon as someone increases their price the others follow. What a business! billyk

They absolutely do compete!

That's why the differences in prices are so low.

The profit margin for retail gasoline outlets is only a few cents a gallon.

One might go so far as to say retail gasoline in densely populated neighborhoods is a perfectly competitive market.

[kjmclark]

Ever notice that when one lowers their prices, the others seem to follow quickly afterward as well? Funny how people notice when the prices go up at similar times, but not when they fall the same way.

I suspect what Billyk really meant, because it's what most people mean, is "Why is it that no one around here has gas as cheap as I want?" People have funny ideas about what competition means.

[jasonraymondson]

The average gas station makes 3.2 cents per gallon of gas.

They make more money off that mountain dew that you buy then they do off you filling your tank.

This is why they are not more competitive.

[Tyler_JC]

The average gas station makes 3.2 cents per gallon of gas.

They make more money off that mountain dew that you buy then they do off you filling your tank.

This is why they are not more competitive.

You have it reversed.

Lots of players charging the same price means that they ARE competitive.

Gasoline stations are price takers, not price makers.

[Keith_McClary]

There are probably many different brands of gas stations in your area. Do you think there are as many refineries supplying their product?

I think you will find the gas stations are all getting their product from the same (nearest) source at the same wholesale price,

[jasonraymondson]

There are probably many different brands of gas stations in your area. Do you think there are as many refineries supplying their product?

I think you will find the gas stations are all getting their product from the same (nearest) source at the same wholesale price,

That would be correct. I have seen the caseys gas truck fill up the Ayerco gas station.

[Plantagenet]

If you're looking for the cheapest gas stations, check this out

map of where the cheap gas is

Good luck!

[Keith_McClary]

If you're looking for the cheapest gas stations, check this out

map of where the cheap gas is

Good luck!

Notice how the price differs over state boundaries - any "free market" bozos want to explain that?

[Tanada]

Do a comparison of the gasoline taxes on each side of those state lines.

[Keith_McClary]

Do a comparison of the gasoline taxes on each side of those state lines.

Detroit has high gas taxes?

[TWilliam]

I think you will find the gas stations are all getting their product from the same (nearest) source at the same wholesale price,

That is, in fact, most often the case. 'Branding' is typically accomplished at a central distribution point, where 'generic' gasoline is blended with the various additives that comprise a particular company's unique formulation, usually directly in the truck. The 'cheap gas' stations sell 'generic' gasoline with little or no additives, which is why their prices are often significantly lower than the 'big name' brands.

And incidentally, talk to any (honest) station owner and they will tell you that at best the gasoline sales cover their overhead. It's strictly a traffic generator...

[Tanada]

Do a comparison of the gasoline taxes on each side of those state lines.

Detroit has high gas taxes?

In Michigan you have the fed gas tax everyone everywhere pays, a 19 cent flat fee state tax per gallon, a .5 cent remediation fund fee for cleanup of abandoned or contaminated sites and after you add all those to the gasoline you get to pay 6% on the total for sales tax. For a $3.00 gallon of gas you have about 45 cents straight taxes and fees plus 17 cents sales tax, about 62 cents.

The people who shold be Pissed Off are the ohio residents, they get fuel from the same Detroit refinery have a straight 28 cent state tax but still pay the same price at the pump we do. When I was young we always filled up on their side of the border if we happened to be down there for some reason, nowadays the prices are in lockstep.

[Plantagenet]

If you're looking for the cheapest gas stations, check this out

map of where the cheap gas is

Good luck!

Notice how the price differs over state boundaries - any "free market" bozos want to explain that?

Different states have different amounts of taxes on oil.

Only a bozo wouldn't know that.

[Plantagenet]

Here's info on current U.S. state tax levels.

2007 state gasoline taxes

The amount of state tax varies by over 20 cents per gallon across the U.S. The level of state taxes tends to be similar in different regions, to stop people from buying gas just across the border in a neighboring low gas tax state, as Tanada pointed out, but there are definite state-to-state differences. On a regional basis, gas taxes are lowest in the south (where gas prices tend to be the lowest in the U.S.) and gas taxes are highest in the west (where gas prices are highest in the U.S.).