[dolanbaker]

The islanders claim will be reinforced by a referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18412195
The Falkland Islands will hold a referendum on its "political status" in a bid to end the dispute with Argentina over the archipelago's sovereignty.

The islands' government made the announcement ahead of the anniversary marking 30 years since the end of Argentina's 74-day occupation in 1982.

It said it wanted to send a firm message to Argentina that islanders want to remain British.

The UK prime minister said Britain would support the result of the vote.

The referendum will be organised by the Falkland Islands government and will take place in the first half of next year.

After the last invasion, Argentina set about eliminating all traces of Britishness from the islands, they had plans to import thousands of settlers and "repatriate" islanders to the UK or insist that those that stayed learned Spanish, they succeeded in replacing the currency and forcing motorists onto the wrong side of the road before the Islands were reclaimed.

[yeahbut]

Ah yes, the Falklands. Dumbest war ever? I guess the field is too strong to call, but it must be in the top ten, surely. The Argentinian novelist Jorge Louis Borges' quote still summarises it perfectly: "two bald men fighting over a comb"

[dolanbaker]

Ah yes, the Falklands. Dumbest war ever? I guess the field is too strong to call, but it must be in the top ten, surely. The Argentinian novelist Jorge Louis Borges' quote still summarises it perfectly: "two bald men fighting over a comb"

You might want to think about that if someone decided that a part of your back garden is theirs and fences it off!

[dissident]

Ah yes, the Falklands. Dumbest war ever? I guess the field is too strong to call, but it must be in the top ten, surely. The Argentinian novelist Jorge Louis Borges' quote still summarises it perfectly: "two bald men fighting over a comb"

You might want to think about that if someone decided that a part of your back garden is theirs and fences it off!

That's funny. Like the Malvinas were British since the dawn of time or something. The British grabbed these islands without considering anyone's fences. They tried to grab Argentina too but that was a bit harder so they settled for the islands.

[dolanbaker]

Follow that logic and you'll find that most of the Americas were illegally occupied!

[rockdoc123]

I can't help but think this is just more of Christina playing to the populist vote and performing a bit of slight of hand to keep the average Argentine's mind off the economic plight they are in. She can't possibly think Argentina would stand a chance against the UK given the results last time (there is a good chapter in a book written about the SAS by one of its former officers that deals with the Falklands/Las Malvinas war and it seems to have been pretty much a cake walk for the UK but did give them a chance to test battle readiness of their Harriers). Its a strange country...the educated professionals realize that the economic policies of the Kirshner gov't will eventually destroy Argentinas economy completely, they look at the Marxist dolt she has placed as her second in command (Kiciloff) and simply shake their collective heads. My sense is they are so tired of a repeat economic performance that they've thrown up their hands in capitulation, realizing that the populist vote always wins. Meanwhile Christina continues to pay $14/MMBTu for LNG and then subsidizes the local gas consumption to about a $1/MMBTU and follows up with a privitization of Repsol portion of YPF suggesting this will solve the countries energy crisis without actually realizing the hundreds of billions of dollars of investment that will be needed, money the gov't doesn't have because they have spent it all subsidizing gas. In the past when the gov't needed money they nationalized the airline, pensions, banks etc. If they drain YPF of the money it churns and don't reinvest then the country will be in an even worse situation. All they need now is an expensive war to really seal their economic fate.

Hopefully this tiff isn't over "oil". The Rockhopper story has been around for a long time. If there was anything there that was economic it would have been developed several years ago. One has to take press releases from oil companies listed on AIM with a grain of salt. In the end they will be fighting over a mass of rocky terrain that has more sheep than people. But I guess the SAS/SBS are always in need of live training.

[Sixstrings]

That's funny. Like the Malvinas were British since the dawn of time or something. The British grabbed these islands without considering anyone's fences. They tried to grab Argentina too but that was a bit harder so they settled for the islands.

Bottom line is that you've got people who've been living there for generations, it can't be right to force them off their land at the point of a gun and hand it over to Argentines..

We can't re-fight the 1830s, wasn't Argentina still the Spanish Empire anyways.. should the US give up Puerto Rico and Samoa? Who would we give it to, the nearest foreign neighbor that wants it?

France has Guadeloupe and Martinique and they all speak French there, should that be given over to some foreign non French-speaking neighbor? I don't see the reasoning for how Argentina deserves it more than the people who've been living there for generations.

[Sixstrings]

"two bald men fighting over a comb"

I still don't get why it's so depopulated. They have fishing, sheep, now oil. I saw a documentary on the Falklands (I like obscure subjects), seemed like they actually have a good amount of land down there, certainly for more than 3,000 people.

But the people they do have, really have lived there for generations, so.. they have a local dialect British accent.. they want nothing to do with the Spanish, that ought to be the end of it.

In comparison, the US territories (tax dollar wise) are also a drain, just as the Falklands are to UK. But it's still sovereign territory. You can't let a foreign army invade and take it over.

[Sixstrings]

My sense is they are so tired of a repeat economic performance that they've thrown up their hands in capitulation, realizing that the populist vote always wins.

Well.. you're forgetting the previous right wing government utterly wrecked the country to point of economic collapse in 2001 (in cahoots with American and Euro banksters).

I don't know what's been going on there since then. Default was a good idea, if they've gone too socialist then that was a mistake all they needed was that default reset and then root out corruption (which can never be done in Latin America, good luck).

Anyhow they won't invade again. Only dictatorships do that. I don't know what they were thinking last time around.. if UK had faltered Uncle Sam would have taken care of it.

It wasn't all a "cakewalk" though, was some tough fighting and men on both sides died hand to hand combat deaths. Don't think you'd call it a cakewalk if you'd been in a foxhole over there, bombs and / or artillery coming in, machine gun fire.

[dolanbaker]

"two bald men fighting over a comb"

I still don't get why it's so depopulated. They have fishing, sheep, now oil. I saw a documentary on the Falklands (I like obscure subjects), seemed like they actually have a good amount of land down there, certainly for more than 3,000 people.
.

For one very simple reason ISOLATION!
It's a remote group of islands far away form where you live and ever further away away from where I live.

[dolanbaker]

"two bald men fighting over a comb"

I still don't get why it's so depopulated. They have fishing, sheep, now oil. I saw a documentary on the Falklands (I like obscure subjects), seemed like they actually have a good amount of land down there, certainly for more than 3,000 people.
.

For one very simple reason ISOLATION!
It's a remote group of islands far away from where you live and ever further away away from where I live.

[rockdoc123]

Well.. you're forgetting the previous right wing government utterly wrecked the country to point of economic collapse in 2001 (in cahoots with American and Euro banksters).

no, that is why I said the educated working class are tired of the cycles of booming economy followed by collapse....they seem to go through it every ten years the '01 collapse being the last one. The gov't now is not making any better desicions than were made back in the early 2000's

I don't know what's been going on there since then. Default was a good idea, if they've gone too socialist then that was a mistake all they needed was that default reset and then root out corruption (which can never be done in Latin America, good luck).

Most economists in Argentina would argue that default was the worst possible thing for Argentina...they have never really come back. There economy is booming but it is pretty much a false economy with lots of gov't intervention...no free market here. It is really too bad because it is a beautiful country with lots of natural resources. They can export beef and soya products and the tourism industry could boom if they would let it. They likely have more shale gas than the US but it is doubtful they will access any of it in the next number of years unless they put policies in place to encourage foreign investment

[KingM]

"two bald men fighting over a comb"

I still don't get why it's so depopulated. They have fishing, sheep, now oil. I saw a documentary on the Falklands (I like obscure subjects), seemed like they actually have a good amount of land down there, certainly for more than 3,000 people.
.

For one very simple reason ISOLATION!
It's a remote group of islands far away from where you live and ever further away away from where I live.

So is New Zealand. The Falklands are also cold. Not numbingly cold in the winter like places in North America, but it never ever gets warm, either. The record high is only 75/24 F/C.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_islands#Climate

[SeaGypsy]

NZ is huge, you could spend a lifetime exploring NZ and not see every forest, hot springs, glacier, reef and island, mountain top. The northernmost part is sub-tropical, with highs near 90/36 in summer, the arch spreads from this through temperate, marine to the edge of sub antarctic, parallel w/ Falklands, which is comparatively a few bare rocks in the middle of an icy windy ocean.

[rockdoc123]

NZ is huge, you could spend a lifetime exploring NZ and not see every forest, hot springs, glacier,

One of my fond memories of NZ was visiting Franz Joseph glacier in the middle of what seemed to be typical weather there, clouds down to the ground and continuous light rain (reminded me of Scotland). The humorous part of the story was I saw 5 Keas (those huge green parrots that are indigenous) walking down the road to the glacier like so many sailors rolling along. I guess it was even too wet for them to fly. Didn't keep the wee bastards from nibbling on my bicycle tires that night though!

[SeaGypsy]

They are flightless, so path of least resistance, then they are there more often than anyone else, territorialism.

[yeahbut]

Hi sg, I think that might be kakapo you're thinking of, kea are great fliers altho they do a lot of walking about as well. I loved rockdoc's description of them as rolling along like sailors, that describes perfectly their hilarious rocking gait. They are incredibly cheeky and curious and will peel the rubber off your wind screen wipers and window seals in no time at all if they feel like it.

Farmers used to kill them in the bad old days, in fact the govt actually paid a bounty for their skins at one point because they have been known, very occasionally, to peck at the backs of sheep to get at the fat, which results in a most unpleasant death for the sheep. Wisdom has prevailed for a long time now and they are fully protected- recognition that they have been here for 20 million years, and humans and their livestock for 200...

Kakapo are another matter, they must be among the most bizarre and lovable birds on the planet. They are unique both in being a flightless parrot, and nocturnal. They are very friendly(not a good idea when humans, cats, rats and ferrets turn up!), and have the most ridiculously elaborate and impractial courtship rituals imaginable. In short, they could only possibly have evolved in a crazy, isolated ecosystem with no mammalian predators at all.

For a giggle, check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY to see a kakapo that was accidently imprinted on humans when it was raised as a chick many years ago. Techniques have since improved, so that this doesn't happen anymore, but as a result of his upbringing Sirrocco the kakapo is not interested in other kakapo at all, only humans, and takes a particularly amorous interest in the unfortunate biologist in this clip

Well I guess I have derailed threads worse than this before, but surely not by much. Apologies, and back to the pressing matter of some frozen rocks in the south atlantic

[dolanbaker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25149096

Here we go again, proof that it's the oil Argentina wants rather than the territory.

Argentina has threatened oil businesses operating off the Falkland Islands with fines, confiscations and jail sentences for their executives.

Argentina's embassy in London said new laws had been passed by the country's congress to clamp down on exploration it claims is in breach of UN decisions.

The UK's Foreign Office insisted the activities were legitimately controlled by the islands' government.

[Tanada]

How much oil are we actually talking about, a new North Sea expanse or just 50 Billion bbl or less?

[rockdoc123]

Here we go again, proof that it's the oil Argentina wants rather than the territory.

I've spent a fair bit of time in Argentina and the rhetoric from Christina and her followers is that it is about jurisdiction and their view that Las Malvinas are historically tied to Argentina, not Britain. I've yet to see her or any of the Peronists jump up and down about there being a bunch of oil out here that they have the rights to. When they first invaded there wasn't any view that there was much in the way of oil out there as I remember.

The thought that there is a lot of oil here is a bit of a joke to my mind. You have companies like Rockhopper which trade on the London AIM and play up every last oil show they encounter in their wells. They have been exploring now for more than a decade in waters to the north and south of the Falklands land mass and have yet to achieve anything approaching economic size as far as I am aware. Science would tell us there should have been lots of oil generated here but there is the chance that it was never properly trapped and just migrated away over the last few million years.