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The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 09:47:40

Ibon wrote:A recent blog post about the mammals present at Mount Totumas Cloud Forest.

http://blog.mounttotumas.com/?p=2821

The previous owners allowed hunters on the property. In 8 years the wildlife population has rebounded, in part because we border a national park and there is a direct corridor of intact habitat allowing these animals to quickly recolonize former habitat.

Nature is incredibly resilient. It doesn't take that many years for wildlife to recolonize former habitat when given a chance. Once the human footprint recedes on the planet the rebound affect will be dramatic, as long as we can hold on to refuge populations.

What populations had the hunters reduced?
I ask because in my experience as a hunter I've had a hard time even thinning a herd much less wipe it out. Uncontrolled poaching is the far greater danger.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 2

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 12:27:24

vtsnowedin wrote: I ask because in my experience as a hunter I've had a hard time even thinning a herd much less wipe it out. Uncontrolled poaching is the far greater danger.


Here habitat loss is primary factor, poaching is secondary. Depends though on species. Baird's Tapir has one off spring every 2-3 years and is impacted by hunting/poaching because of low reproductive rates. Fragmented remaining population endangered. Completely extirpated from lowlands of Panama and no longer found in several Central American countries. This species is one that just needs to hold on in a few refuge populations to recolonize former habitat one day.

Collared Peccaries are more abundant and a female will produce up to a 5 young a year. With sufficient habitat remaining this species can withstand hunting pressure.

We still have the top predators here keeping prey species in balance; Jaguar, Mountain Lion, Ocelot, Tayra, Grisson.

You may be the only predator remaining in your area if you don't have wolves, mountain lions, bears, etc. and that would explain why you are challenged to thin the herd. White tailed deer are a prime example.

Sustainable hunting is a critical wildlife management strategy in many areas of North America.

Here at Mount Totumas we don't permit even sustainable hunting because the wildlife here quickly learns the area is a refuge and we can notice profound difference in 8 years in wildlife tolerating human presence. We want guests to have opportunity to see wildlife and these animals are smart and if we allowed gunshot and hunting many species would become super wary and would be even harder to see than they already are. .

I am tempted though to allow anyone who shows up with a cross bow to bag a Collared Peccary. We put salt on the ground near the game cameras and sometimes we have herds of up to 20 of these animals. They are abundant here.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 15:22:25

Peace may be good for humans, but sometimes it is devastating for ecosystems:

Deforestation soars in Colombia after Farc rebels' demobilization

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ation-farc
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 17:37:21

Ibon wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: I ask because in my experience as a hunter I've had a hard time even thinning a herd much less wipe it out. Uncontrolled poaching is the far greater danger.


Here habitat loss is primary factor, poaching is secondary. Depends though on species. Baird's Tapir has one off spring every 2-3 years and is impacted by hunting/poaching because of low reproductive rates. Fragmented remaining population endangered. Completely extirpated from lowlands of Panama and no longer found in several Central American countries. This species is one that just needs to hold on in a few refuge populations to recolonize former habitat one day.

Collared Peccaries are more abundant and a female will produce up to a 5 young a year. With sufficient habitat remaining this species can withstand hunting pressure.

We still have the top predators here keeping prey species in balance; Jaguar, Mountain Lion, Ocelot, Tayra, Grisson.

You may be the only predator remaining in your area if you don't have wolves, mountain lions, bears, etc. and that would explain why you are challenged to thin the herd. White tailed deer are a prime example.

Sustainable hunting is a critical wildlife management strategy in many areas of North America.

Here at Mount Totumas we don't permit even sustainable hunting because the wildlife here quickly learns the area is a refuge and we can notice profound difference in 8 years in wildlife tolerating human presence. We want guests to have opportunity to see wildlife and these animals are smart and if we allowed gunshot and hunting many species would become super wary and would be even harder to see than they already are. .

I am tempted though to allow anyone who shows up with a cross bow to bag a Collared Peccary. We put salt on the ground near the game cameras and sometimes we have herds of up to 20 of these animals. They are abundant here.



In Vermont we have never had Jaguar and the last know mountain lion (we call them pumas here) was shot in 1881 and even though that is 136 years ago sightings persist and there is a strong possibility that a few have returned via Canada. We do have coyotes, black bears, bob cats and fisher cats (a relative of wolverines) and foxes here as predators. But the primary predator here is winter, with up to four feet of snow on the ground for as much as ninety days and temperatures as low as -40C.
But given all of that the deer herd here can replace of third of itself each summer.
I do understand your keeping your photo shoot area hunter free. They do learn to avoid danger areas. But if your property is extensive enough you could possibly have a hunting area far away from the tourist photo opps. blind.
I do have a nice crossbow by the way. :)
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 18:49:23

Your state DNR likely works hard most years to keep the supply high for all you hunters.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 19:14:10

dohboi wrote:Your state DNR likely works hard most years to keep the supply high for all you hunters.


I'd love to hear your support from that assertion. 8O

Ibon,

Don't know about cross bow but compound bows would seem to be quite effective, in the right hands. At one time, many years ago, I was a fair shot. My sister has taken caribou with a recurve.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 19:19:58

dohboi wrote:Peace may be good for humans, but sometimes it is devastating for ecosystems:

Deforestation soars in Colombia after Farc rebels' demobilization

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ation-farc


Yes. It puts warfare in a whole other light. How we humans control territory.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 19:36:17

The DNR doesn't work to keep populations up, actually the opposite. The herds get too big on their own and the DNR then release Doe licenses to cull the herds.
"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." - Patrick Henry

The level of injustice and wrong you endure is directly determined by how much you quietly submit to. Even to the point of extinction.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby Newfie » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 19:44:11

Cid_Yama wrote:The DNR doesn't work to keep populations up, actually the opposite. The herds get too big on their own and the DNR then release Doe licenses to cull the herds.


1+ :-D
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 21:24:28

That's my point. The heard is carefully managed. If it gets too high, the DNR is there to take measures to reduce it.

I guess I have to do all the work for you guys, but many/most state DNRs have programs to improve deer habitat...that is, be sure there's enough good stuff for them to eat so there are enough for the hunters to go out and kill, so that the hunters can feel all natural and virtuous about being part of the 'circle of life' (cue the music :-D :-D :-D ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GibiNy4d4gc )

Here's the first thing that popped up. Maybe your state happens to be one that doesn't do this. My impression is that most states do. http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-15 ... --,00.html
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 21:31:33

DNRs by whatever name are bureaucratic organizations whose main purpose in life is to secure a larger budget. Anything they do to help the animal populations or make it easier for sportsmen is coincidence and intended to increase license sales. I say that having had venison stew with dumplins for supper. :)
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 07:35:07

You don’t need a scientist to know what’s causing the sixth mass extinction (us)

Paul Ehrlich

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... population

Virtually everything humanity constructs provides an example of habitat destruction
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 07:49:46

dohboi wrote:You don’t need a scientist to know what’s causing the sixth mass extinction (us)

Paul Ehrlich

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... population

Virtually everything humanity constructs provides an example of habitat destruction


My daughter who is 24 happened across the Guardian article about the extinctions and she sent me an email quite distressed over this. I wrote her the following response:

So I will mention a couple things to give you some real hope, not false hope.
More than half of the land mass of our planet is now human landscapes. That includes the agricultural lands and pastures that supplies our foods. This huge conversion of natural ecosystems destroyed and turned into human landscapes is the reason for this increase in species extinctions. and population reductions
of still existing biodiversity. The remaining biodiversity on the planet are like seedbanks or refuge populations. The good news Karin is once the human footprint recedes these refuge populations of native flora and fauna will quickly recolonize former human habitat. Just look on that hillside at Mount Totumas
when we closed down the cow pastures and what happened in just 5 years. Nature is incredibly resilient. No species can survive extinction though so yes we are causing a mass extinction event but focus on the glass still 4/5 full and not on what has been lost. There is tremendous biodiversity still here and
tremendous resilience to recolonize habitat once human over population gets corrected.

Even though the truth is disheartening it is good you stare this directly in the face. Internalize this so that it awakens in you a deep humility toward mother nature. This is the key to maintain mental equilibrium .

Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
blog: http://blog.mounttotumas.com/
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 07:58:54

Nicely put.

I'm not sure I would put the glass at 4/5ths full exactly though, especially looking at our trajectory...just the ghgs already in the atmosphere will doom us to much more GW and species destruction. And before we get to 'once the human footprint recedes' we are likely to see even more intensive annihilation of life on the planet as people and gov's desperately scramble for the last bits of edible or otherwise usable biological material on the planet.

How old is your daughter, by the way. Nice that she still turns to dear old dad with these kinds of concerns.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby Ibon » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 08:46:06

dohboi wrote:
How old is your daughter, by the way. Nice that she still turns to dear old dad with these kinds of concerns.


She is 24. When she was a teen she could not listen to me discuss these types of topics. I knew at that time the she had other priorities and I was not too upset over my daughters when they tuned me out back then over my peak oil and related human overshoot rants. You just cant get a 17 year old inspired when discussing Kudzu Apes!

She is now an adult, her love of nature comes from the childhood experiences of camping and canoe trips and all the other outdoor stuff we did with our kids. That is worth more than any bla bla bla discussion. For those who have kids get them outdoors and relating to the natural world. Talk less about politics and be more in nature. That is the best way to instill concern for your environment when it is a visceral experience already as a child.

My daughter is just now engaging at 24 years old in the socio economic environmental politics surrounding our plight. You can't expect a young person to be much engaged beforehand, they will just tune you out as my daughters both did when they were younger.
Our resiliency resembles an invasive weed. We are the Kudzu Ape
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 10:40:05

Yeah, a lot of the executive function kinda switches off in those late teen years.

Mine is 21 and just took a course in the anthropology of environmentalism, so she's schoolin' me now! And I love it! :-D
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Paul B. on extinction...the uninhabitable Earth

Unread postby Whitefang » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 13:56:10

She is now an adult, her love of nature comes from the childhood experiences of camping and canoe trips and all the other outdoor stuff we did with our kids. That is worth more than any bla bla bla discussion. For those who have kids get them outdoors and relating to the natural world. Talk less about politics and be more in nature. That is the best way to instill concern for your environment when it is a visceral experience already as a child.


I totally agree Ibon, the best thing my parents have done is to go out into the mtns with me and my sisters, a daydrive and you are in the Alps, camping and hike/climb from cabin to cabin,

just saw Paul B. on my playstation with a linky to YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDxT7sjCFQ

A lot can happen in a day. Things can turn on a dime. Has this just happened? David Wallace-Wells wrote a great article in nymag.com recently on "The Uninhabitable Earth". Media around the world carried parts of it, and a number of scientists chimed in. Many people said the article is too apocalyptic. I say that the article is spot on. Civilization, more correctly humanity is going down big time, on our current path. Abrupt climate change all but guarantees that. Unless we collectively change course by:

1) Declare a global climate emergency.

2) Deploy technologies to remove carbon from the atmosphere &/or oceans.

3) Deploy technologies to cool the Arctic.

Last edited by Whitefang on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 14:15:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby jedrider » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 14:14:11

I'm going camping with my family and friends this weekend, in our attempt to EXTINGUISH civilization, at least, for the weekend. We're going to a campground along a river in the the Stanislaus National Forest, part of the California Sierra Nevada. I cannot imagine not having the continuous tree cover that it now has. It could be a victim of global warming, so I'm trying to make these outings as numerous as I can. A lot of trails were washed out on the coastline camping areas because of our heavy rains this year and after the fires in the past few years.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 12 Jul 2017, 14:35:49

Have a good time.

Meanwhile:

On depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer.

Groundwater pumping drying up Great Plains streams, driving fish extinctions

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-groundwat ... .html#nRlv

Farmers in the Great Plains of Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas and the panhandle of Texas produce about one-sixth of the world’s grain, and water for these crops comes from the High Plains Aquifer—often known as the Ogallala Aquifer—the single greatest source of groundwater in North America. A team of researchers, including Colorado State University Professor Kurt Fausch and Jeff Falke, a CSU alumnus and an assistant professor at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, have discovered that more than half a century of groundwater pumping from the aquifer has led to long segments of rivers drying up and the collapse of large-stream fishes.

If pumping practices are not modified, scientists warn that these habitats will continue to shrink, and the fish populations along with them.
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Re: The Extinction Of Humanity pt. 3

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 17 Jul 2017, 03:16:16

Well this seems like best thread to deposit this quite pessimistic
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... umans.html
“When the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten and the last stream poisoned, you will realize that you cannot eat money.”
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