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THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 31 May 2015, 07:25:48

What kind of progress would we make if the Government wasn't so bloated that it gets in its own way? Not just in alternate liquid fuels, in wind power, nuclear power, pretty much anything you name in the energy sector.
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 31 May 2015, 10:45:20

Tanada wrote:What kind of progress would we make if the Government wasn't so bloated that it gets in its own way? Not just in alternate liquid fuels, in wind power, nuclear power, pretty much anything you name in the energy sector.
You must assume government is the fault. Here is the real problem:

Table 4. Inputs Per 1000 l of 99.5% Ethanol Produced From
U.S. Switchgrass
Inputs Quantities kcal × 1000a Costs
Switchgrass 2,500 kgb 694c $250o
Transport, 2,500 kgd 300 15
switchgrass
Water 125,000 kge 70 f 20m
Stainless steel 3 kgg 45g 11g
Steel 4 kgg 46g 11g
Cement 8 kgg 15g 11g
Grind switchgrass 2,500 kg 100h 8h
Sulfuric acid 118 kgi 0 83n
Steam production 8.1 tonsi 4,404 36
Electricity 660 kWhi 1,703 46
Ethanol conversion 9 kcal/L j 9 40
to 99.5%
Sewage effluent 20 kg (BOD)k 69l 6
Total 7,455 $537
Note. Requires 45% more fossil energy to produce 1 liter of ethanol using 2.5 kg switchgrass than the energy in a liter of ethanol.
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby Pops » Sun 31 May 2015, 15:02:06

The problem with the EFS is basically that .gov bought into the cellulosic hype and set a minimum that couldn't be met, probably read too many of G's P2RPR postings.
LOL
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 31 May 2015, 15:08:51

Pops wrote:The problem with the EFS is basically that .gov bought into the cellulosic hype and set a minimum that couldn't be met, probably read too many of G's P2RPR postings.
LOL
(Instead of pleas to authority, these are pleas to Public Relations Press Releases - P2PRPR)

"The web site looks really professional with all those buttons and pretty colors and the way it jumps around nicely. And such. It must have professional stuff inside too. Right? So I guess if I'll just post it, and then people will think I am professional. And professional people don't lie. Right? Right? Right?"

No :-x
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 01 Jun 2015, 17:54:38

The Obama administration has found an unlikely ally in OPEC

The Obama administration has found an unlikely ally in its efforts to keep pushing more biofuel into the nation’s gasoline supply: OPEC.

The lowest oil prices in over six years have fuelled a resurgence in U.S. gasoline use in recent months as more Americans take to the road.

Demand is expected to climb 1.5 per cent this year to nearly 139 billion gallons (526 billion litres) according to the government’s most recent forecasts, enough to easily accommodate small increases in ethanol quotas without breaching the so-called “blend wall” that refiners say puts a cap on blending at around 10 per cent of total gasoline and diesel supply.

It may be even higher, based on data from the first quarter, when gasoline use surged by more than 3 per cent, the fastest in over a decade.

Those calculations help explain why biofuel backers are up in arms over the Environmental Protection Agency’s proposed renewable fuel goals unveiled on Friday, which reaffirmed the agency’s stance that ethanol use in fuel has hit a saturation point until more infrastructure and equipment is installed.


businessinsider

USDA to invest up to $100M to boost infrastructure for renewable fuel use; seeks to double number of higher blend ethanol fuel pumps
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 03 Jun 2015, 18:07:32

Revolutionary microbe for biofuel production developed

Biofuels pioneer Mascoma LLC and the Department of Energy's BioEnergy Science Center have developed a revolutionary strain of yeast that could help significantly accelerate the development of biofuels from nonfood plant matter.

The approach could provide a pathway to eventual expansion of biofuels production beyond the current output limited to ethanol derived from corn.

C5 FUEL™, engineered by researchers at Mascoma and BESC, features fermentation and ethanol yields that set a new standard for conversion of biomass sugars from pretreated corn stover -- the non-edible portion of corn crops such as the stalk -- converting up to 97 percent of the plant sugars into fuel.

Researchers announced that while conventional yeast leaves more than one-third of the biomass sugars unused in the form of xylose, Mascoma's C5 FUEL™ efficiently converts this xylose into ethanol, and it accomplishes this feat in less than 48 hours. The finding was presented today at the 31st International Fuel Ethanol Workshop in Minneapolis.


sciencedaily
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby isgota » Fri 05 Jun 2015, 04:10:53

pstarr wrote:Cellulosic continues to be a diversion. All the schemes depend on the invention of genetically modified super-organism that will magically expel a super-enzyme to break apart the lignin glue and long-chain cellulose molecules . . . at no or little energy cost. Don't you think the paper industry would be interested? The liquor industry?


I don't think they'll be interested.

If you put that super-enzyme in cellulose you'll convert all to glucose, no cellulose, no paper, bad idea. And liquors depend a lot of the feedstock source for public acceptance, I don't think corn stover whiskey will have much appeal for consumers.
Last edited by isgota on Fri 05 Jun 2015, 05:37:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby isgota » Fri 05 Jun 2015, 04:40:55

pstarr wrote:
wiki wrote:Cellulosic ethanol commercialization is the process of building an industry out of methods of turning cellulose-containing organic matter into fuel. Companies such as Iogen, POET, and Abengoa are building refineries that can process biomass and turn it into ethanol, while companies such as DuPont, Diversa, Novozymes, and Dyadic are producing enzymes which could enable a cellulosic ethanol future. The shift from food crop feedstocks to waste residues and native grasses offers significant opportunities for a range of players, from farmers to biotechnology firms, and from project developers to investors.[91]

I doubt any of these companies exists anymore or is involved in the production of cellulose fuel. The damn scam tanked (pun intended) years ago.


Actually, all of them have or are finishing building cellulosic ethanol plants at comercial scale with the exception perhaps of Diversa (now Verenium) that don't look very active in biofuels lately.
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby isgota » Fri 05 Jun 2015, 04:51:40

pstarr wrote:
Tanada wrote:Pretending something does not exist does not make it cease to exist.

I never said cellulosic doesn't exist.
The French chemist, Henri Braconnot, was the first to discover that cellulose could be hydrolyzed into sugars by treatment with sulfuric acid in 1819. The hydrolyzed sugar could then be processed to form ethanol through fermentation. The first commercialized ethanol production began in Germany in 1898, where acid was used to hydrolyze cellulose.

So it is a simple process that has not changed in almost 200 years. Problem is; it is a very energy-intensive process that will always cost more than petroleum. Always. Like duh. :razz:


Yeah, because sulfuric acid and modern enzymes have a lot in common :roll:

Just an example, take a look of the evolution in Novozymes since 2009:

Image

In hemicellulose as well:

Image
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 13 Jun 2015, 22:44:54

Stumbled across something interesting while researching home Kefir brewing. One of the strains of yeast that make up the complex set of yeasts and bacteria used in Kefir brewing specializes in converting Lactose/Galactose into Ethanol. Most yeasts can only digest single sugar compounds (Glucose, Fructose, Galactose) but not disaccharides like Sucrose or Lactose made up from them. The yeast strain Kluyveromyces marxianus however specializes in breaking down the Galactose half of Lactose freeing up the Glucose half for energy and releasing an Ethanol molecule from the broken down Galactose.

Lactose is the sugar that naturally occurs in Milk and millions of gallons of Whey byproduct produced in the process of making cheese average 4.5% Lactose dissolved in the liquid. Testing in 2013 with Kluyveromyces marxianus demonstrated a high efficiency at converting Lactose in Whey byproduct into Ethanol. The resulting material contained 8.64 g/L Ethanol and 3.122 g/L Lactose residue after just 16 hours of fermentation. For comparison 4.0 Beer sold in the USA has about 32 g/L ethanol so the resulting liquid is about 1 percent Ethanol.

Conclusions
The yeast was able to metabolize most of the
lactose within 16 h to give 8.64 g/L ethanol, 4.43
g/L biomass, and remain the 3.122 g/L residual
lactose


http://www.researchgate.net/profile/H_H ... 000000.pdf
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Ethanol Thread pt 3

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Tue 27 Sep 2016, 10:19:04

Speaking of US LNG that isn't being exported to Europe: old news from last March but just stumbled on to it. It wasn't "natural gas" that was exported...IOW not methane but ethane. Might not sound much different but ethane, as a component of manufacturing processes, is more valuable then methane. Thus the theory that METHANE exported from the US shale plays is going to keep our cousins warm (and less dependent on Russian methane imports) didn't actually start out as such:

"The INEOS Intrepid today left the Marcus Hook terminal near Philadelphia bound for Rafnes in Norway carrying 27,500m3 of US shale gas ethane. This is the first time that US shale gas (no...shale ethane) has ever been shipped to Europe and represents the culmination of a long-term investment by INEOS. Jim Ratcliffe, chairman and founder of INEOS, says, “This is an important day for INEOS and Europe. We know that shale gas economics revitalised US manufacturing and for the first time Europe can access this important energy and raw material source too”

This is the first time that US shale gas has ever been imported into Europe and finally gives the continent the chance to benefit from US shale gas economics which did so much to revitalise manufacturing in the USA."

BTW the US has been exporting increasing amounts of ETHANE to other countries since late 2014. The shipment from Marcus Hook is not the first exports of ethane or LNG to anyone as one might assume from the headlines.

IOW we shipped LPG and not LNG across the Big Pond. That one different letter makes a huge difference in the market and end use: "With the recently completed Enterprise’s terminal expansion, total US LPG export capacity is at 1.045 million b/d. With strong production growth in the US and flat demand in Europe and the Americas, US LPG is increasingly reaching distant markets like Asia. Additionally, US ethane will also fulfill global demand as the first cargo of US ethane is set to leave this March from Sunoco’s Marcus Hook export facility in Pennsylvania. Sunoco’s 70,000 b/d Marcus Hook terminal in Pennsylvania and Enterprise’s 200,000 b/d Morgan’s Point terminal in Texas will serve to satisfy export demand, currently contracted to Europe and India."
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