Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby asg70 » Mon 10 Jul 2017, 15:02:04

https://electrek.co/2017/07/10/tesla-su ... us-bigger/

Note inner link to this from april that Addresses PStarr's FUD:

https://electrek.co/2017/04/24/tesla-su ... ownership/

"even if there are no level 2 chargers in the parking garages, Tesla owners can still operate their vehicles more like gas-powered cars with Superchargers as gas stations."
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 517
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 05:32:34

Outcast_Searcher wrote:

1). I think he was referring to the earlier post that if you have all robot cars, when your robot car sees it is coming to the end of its range, it just calls another robot car to come pick you up. If it times things right, your delay and inconvenience is minimal. A 10% price reduction in your trip fee was proposed as compensation.

Of course, now you also have a stranded (depleted) robot car, so something else (a robot charging truck) has to drive out to the robot car and charge it enough to get to a charging station. SOMEBODY has to pay for that. So unless people are willing to take EXPENSIVE trips -- this sounds like a way for ride providers to lose a lot of money to me.


You haven't thought that all the way through. When you call for a robot car to pick you up and tell it where you want to go the computer in it will know where every robot car is and will instantly compute the best way to get you there. It will not drive two hundred miles and then call for backup. It will drive from it's charging station to your door and pick you up and if it can't reach your destination and get back to a charging station by itself it will instead drive to a charging station as far along your route as possible and will have called ahead and have a fully charged robot car there waiting for you. It will work great for those millennials that haven't learned how to drive, gotten a drivers license or insurance. The cars will never intentionally leave themselves stranded dead battery, needing a charge.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7489
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby eclipse » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 07:04:56

"The cars will never intentionally leave themselves stranded dead battery, needing a charge."
I agree, which was kind of my point originally. (Outcast was quoting me). I just might have phrased it poorly if I left you with that impression. I should have said something like "when your robot car sees it is coming to the end of its range, it just calls another robot car to come pick you up at the end of it's practical range, and then turns around and heads back to the charging station". The whole point of this scenario was new fuels or new charging station adaptors and gizmos. In other words, there might not be any charging stations on the customer's way. Instead, and only if it was the only car in range in the next 15 minutes, the new car with the rarer, new charging infrastructure takes the customer as far as it reasonably can, and when it must turn around, it has prearranged a transfer vehicle that has finally freed up. This standard car that has the dominant charging infrastructure in abundance. If we're talking about the dominant car with the dominant infrastructure of the day, then of course it would just stop at a charging station along the way, so I totally agree with you if that's the case.


Hi all, here's a temporary diversion to consider a HUMUNGOUS MODE of ELECTRIC TRANSPORT!
How about an Orbital Ring? This thing is a combination of services, combining an intercontinental hyperloop (where you travel on the outside of the magnetic ring like a ring version of a maglev train), a gateway to space, and can even hurl space craft at Mars using nothing but electricity. The best bit? Unlike a space elevator, it's buildable with today's materials. It just requires a lot of energy to stay up there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
User avatar
eclipse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri 04 Feb 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 07:16:36

eclipse wrote:"The cars will never intentionally leave themselves stranded dead battery, needing a charge."
I agree, which was kind of my point originally. (Outcast was quoting me). I just might have phrased it poorly if I left you with that impression. I should have said something like "when your robot car sees it is coming to the end of its range, it just calls another robot car to come pick you up at the end of it's practical range, and then turns around and heads back to the charging station". The whole point of this scenario was new fuels or new charging station adaptors and gizmos. In other words, there might not be any charging stations on the customer's way. Instead, and only if it was the only car in range in the next 15 minutes, the new car with the rarer, new charging infrastructure takes the customer as far as it reasonably can, and when it must turn around, it has prearranged a transfer vehicle that has finally freed up. This standard car that has the dominant charging infrastructure in abundance. If we're talking about the dominant car with the dominant infrastructure of the day, then of course it would just stop at a charging station along the way, so I totally agree with you if that's the case.


Hi all, here's a temporary diversion to consider a HUMUNGOUS MODE of ELECTRIC TRANSPORT!
How about an Orbital Ring? This thing is a combination of services, combining an intercontinental hyperloop (where you travel on the outside of the magnetic ring like a ring version of a maglev train), a gateway to space, and can even hurl space craft at Mars using nothing but electricity. The best bit? Unlike a space elevator, it's buildable with today's materials. It just requires a lot of energy to stay up there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E

That is so 1970!
The book was called "Ring world" By Larry Niven
I read it back then.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7489
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 07:23:33

Your still missing the point that the car will be connected to a central dispatching computer and will have the entire trip plotted out from the start including any transfers. If you have a real range of 200 miles you might get to a smoothly running system with charging stations and parking garages 100 miles apart which if you think about it would be covered if you put one at every airport in America and another downtown in each sizable city. Look to the current rental fleets to be the first to switch over.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7489
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 11:37:36

vtsnowedin wrote: The cars will never intentionally leave themselves stranded dead battery, needing a charge.

Fair point. I was quoting eclipse, and based on another post he wrote in this thread, I misinterpreted his meaning, so my bad on that.

Clearly your way makes a lot of sense, and they'll do something along those lines. I was thinking the rare exception condition -- but actually if the cars never strand themselves, then there's no need for it to be the rare exception -- it can just be part of the plan. As long as there are enough cars to handle the people wanting rides at a given time, it works well.

With actual centralized computerized planning / communication, if it's done well, the results can just be fantastic. All they have to do is get the meat bags (humans) out of the communications loop (they're slow and imprecise).

I'm so NOT used to thinking about car rides this way (vs. say, taxis where the stupid system has a dispatcher that speaks very poor English in the continental US -- what a brilliant plan THAT is (it's basically the taxi company MARKETING for switching to Uber, IMO)), that I have to work to get my head around doing that efficiently with computers.
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 20:26:42

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 15:25:12

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: The cars will never intentionally leave themselves stranded dead battery, needing a charge.

Fair point. I was quoting eclipse, and based on another post he wrote in this thread, I misinterpreted his meaning, so my bad on that.

Clearly your way makes a lot of sense, and they'll do something along those lines. I was thinking the rare exception condition -- but actually if the cars never strand themselves, then there's no need for it to be the rare exception -- it can just be part of the plan. As long as there are enough cars to handle the people wanting rides at a given time, it works well.

With actual centralized computerized planning / communication, if it's done well, the results can just be fantastic. All they have to do is get the meat bags (humans) out of the communications loop (they're slow and imprecise).

I'm so NOT used to thinking about car rides this way (vs. say, taxis where the stupid system has a dispatcher that speaks very poor English in the continental US -- what a brilliant plan THAT is (it's basically the taxi company MARKETING for switching to Uber, IMO)), that I have to work to get my head around doing that efficiently with computers.

Thank you for the agreement of my point. It is very rare here or on the net in general so it is much appreciated.
Of course the "meat bags" will have the girlfriend that comes out half an hour late getting her makeup just right or the Mother-in -law adding a mid course stop or course correction so this will not always work smoothly as planned. But it will probably work a lot better then driving it yourself because the robot drivers will communicate with the traffic lights and hit a lot more greens then a human ever could.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 7489
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 02:00:00

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby eclipse » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 18:52:42

vtsnowedin wrote:Hi all, here's a temporary diversion to consider a HUMUNGOUS MODE of ELECTRIC TRANSPORT!
How about an Orbital Ring? This thing is a combination of services, combining an intercontinental hyperloop (where you travel on the outside of the magnetic ring like a ring version of a maglev train), a gateway to space, and can even hurl space craft at Mars using nothing but electricity. The best bit? Unlike a space elevator, it's buildable with today's materials. It just requires a lot of energy to stay up there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E

That is so 1970!
The book was called "Ring world" By Larry Niven
I read it back then.[/quote]

>> OFF TOPIC DIVERSION - but I love this topic and so am happy for the chat. A Ringworld, an absolutely impossible structure even with our strongest carbon nanotubes or anything we can imagine. It would have to spin at over a million km's a second to get enough centrifugal force to mimic gravity, and that would tear any known or conceivable materials apart. While Ringworld's are impossible, Rungworld's are entirely possible. Think of O'Neil habitats, only bigger. The huge 'continent sized' ones are McKendree cylinders. Each one could support a billion people. These giant cylinders spin on their axles, but are joined at the top and bottom axle to the next McKendree cylinder, forming what looks like a circular ladder around the star. Admittedly these rely on us knowing how to mass produce cheap carbon nanotubes which we can't do yet, but you can replace them with traditional building materials if we just build smaller O'Neil sized habitats and more of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlmKejRSVd8

<< OFF TOPIC DIVERSION

An Orbital Ring circles the Earth instead of the sun, and is about intercontinental transport that could eventually replace airlines and even NASA launching craft into space. I suggest watching the video, and there are no sci-fi technologies necessary. It's doable, just expensive to set up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
User avatar
eclipse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri 04 Feb 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney

Re: THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 6

Unread postby eclipse » Tue 11 Jul 2017, 18:58:12

vtsnowedin wrote:Your still missing the point that the car will be connected to a central dispatching computer and will have the entire trip plotted out from the start including any transfers. If you have a real range of 200 miles you might get to a smoothly running system with charging stations and parking garages 100 miles apart which if you think about it would be covered if you put one at every airport in America and another downtown in each sizable city. Look to the current rental fleets to be the first to switch over.

No, I entirely accept that point. In fact, it is the fundamental foundation and assumption behind my point which is this frees us up from worrying about the chicken and egg fuelling / charging problem. If it's too hard, I simply can't be bothered.
Dr James Hansen recommends breeder reactors that convert nuclear 'waste' into 1000 years of clean energy for America, and can charge all our light vehicles and generate "Blue Crude" for heavy vehicles.
https://eclipsenow.wordpress.com/recharge/
User avatar
eclipse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri 04 Feb 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney

Previous

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests