THE Electric Vehicle (EV) Thread pt 3 (merged)

[SeaGypsy]

Nuke power being carbon nuetral is a myth, until the mining gear and ships are running on nukes themselves.

No, its not a myth. Nuke power generation is carbon neutral, even if other parts of the economy are not. Obviously, it would be good to transform other parts of the economy so they also become carbon neutral as well.

That's like saying an electric oven makes no smoke; while ignoring where the electricity came from. Don't lie.

Is it a lie, confusion or is PlantedAgent and scammer or an operative? Data suggests the latter. He is smart but has been making incredibly dense bizarre statements here for a long time.

Ok plantedagent; put your bike on the roof of your SUV, drive 40 miles round trip to the National Park and go for a nice green ride in the country.
Then tell everyone how green you are. Dipshit.

[lowem]

That's like saying an electric oven makes no smoke; while ignoring where the electricity came from. Don't lie.

Reminds me of one of my favourite movie lines (well one ouf many) :

Valeris: "A lie?"
Spock: "An omission."

Right ... it's Star Trek (gasp).

But anyway.

Not many activities are carbon-neutral today.
Perhaps more activities might be carbon-neutral tomorrow?
Begging the question of whether there *is* a tomorrow.

Well, anyway.

[lowem]

Sorry a bit OT, while I was still googling :

Capt. Picard: You told the truth up to a point. But a lie of omission is still a lie.

Good point too

(But please don't start any flame wars on my account - this is a flame-neutral thread).

[SeaGypsy]

That's like saying an electric oven makes no smoke; while ignoring where the electricity came from. Don't lie.

Reminds me of one of my favourite movie lines (well one ouf many) :

Valeris: "A lie?"
Spock: "An omission."

Right ... it's Star Trek (gasp).

But anyway.

Not many activities are carbon-neutral today.
Perhaps more activities might be carbon-neutral tomorrow?
Begging the question of whether there *is* a tomorrow.

Well, anyway.

Hey Iowem, coming from the small car, electric bike capital of the world with the best public transit in the world; you know something most of the folks on here have only thought about. It is possible to do things better, yet modern.

[yesplease]

Imagine all our cars replaced by electric ones. We would have to build much more (twice) nuclear plants in a time where a lot of countries would like to shift to nuclear energy.

Or y'all could just user a timer and charge off-peak. But I digress, that's too complex for those in the EU.

By the way, a lithium battery doesn't last much more than 5 years and lithium will get scarce very soon if the demand keep rocketing...

Well, a lithium cobalt battery doesn't last much longer than 5-10 years depending on thermal management, but there are other chemistries like lithium manganese and lithium iron phosphate that last up to ten times longer than conventional lithium cobalt cells. Concerns about lithium availability seem to be unfounded given it's only a percent or so of battery costs. Lithium prices could increase by a factor of ten w/ a huge change in reserves and little to no change in battery costs.

Asimov should have wrote : Do sheeps dream of electric cars? Our civilization is fucked up, and this pipe dream is a clear sign of denial of the current situation. We think the Titanic won't sink thanks we have many silver spoons in the restaurant. I hate those lies. We are loosing precious time with blabla instead of taking strong decisions.

Do forum members dream of electronic fact checking?

[davep]

There's always the compressed-air car, that doesn't need the lithium for batteries.

Oh, and that's another Francophile invention

http://www.mdi.lu/english/

[The_Toecutter]

Makes one wonder why GM didn't put the EV-1 into production 10 years ago. They might have been ruling the world today!

a) electric cars are low in powertrain maintenance compared to gasoline ones. electric motors will outlast a diesel engine at least two times over(1,000,000 miles). During the 1990s, aftermarket services and repairs accounted for half of GM's profit margins.

b) electric cars threatened a chain of industries(eg. oil) and various government revenue sources, and thus various entities played their part to keep them from entering the market

c) GM would have leapfrogged automotive technology, making obsolete 20-30 years ahead of time some of the advancements they made in the 1970s and 1980s that are just entering the market today... meaning they would have had to begin innovating for a change. Most of the factions inside GM were steadfast against such a move, but some factions in GM wanted the electric car to go somewhere.

Not only could GM have made a viable electric car, but also viable 70+ mpg midsize cars that would have entailed no sacrifice on part of the consumer.




Hopefully, we finally get EVs this time. It would be two decades later than the technology, but at least we would have them...

[shortonsense]

Hopefully, we finally get EVs this time. It would be two decades later than the technology, but at least we would have them...

I am always surprised when smart people look at the same data, and come to different conclusions.

Toe, everything you said seems completely reasonable, and fortunately, such a path certainly doesn't require Doom as the logical extension of such a thought.

Its nice to see that some people can see whats going on....even here, and lets not forget, there are many others who certainly don't require the end of the modern world all because soccer moms won't like leaving behind their 2 ton behemoths.

http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapit ... bank-says/

[lowem]

Hey Iowem, coming from the small car, electric bike capital of the world with the best public transit in the world; you know something most of the folks on here have only thought about. It is possible to do things better, yet modern.

Okay, I'd suppose sometimes people are not aware of Singapore's system, so let me try to list down some of the things I can do over here :

1. I can cross the road and in 5 minutes, reach : a. modern suburban shopping mall with a supermarket, library, food joints, Starbucks and so on, b. a "community centre" which houses a post office, government/public clinic, police station and sports facilities.

2. At the same place I can take the LRT (light rail) and reach any part of the town/housing estate in about 15 minutes, which usually costs less than a dollar in USD terms.

3. I can take the MRT (metro/subway/underground heavy rail) and reach the city area in 30 minutes or less, with 2 major malls (and 2 more coming up) spread out along the metro line. Cost of travel, about a dollar or so in USD terms.

4. Folks which come in via Changi Airport may take a taxi/cab to the city area in about half an hour, or they could also choose to take the MRT which takes about the same time as via the roads or perhaps less if it's rush hour on the highways. Again, about a dollar in USD terms if you go by MRT.

Sure it took decades of careful systems engineering and tens of billions of dollars to arrive at this stage, but other countries are welcome to come and study how it has been done, and sure there have been a number of delegations over the years from various places.

[lowem]

Here's a photo :



The MRT is underground, the LRT is the elevated rails in the middle of the picture.

Coming back to topic, as for the electric car charging points, haven't quite decided yet but the Singapore government is starting an electric car trial from 2010-2012 and will be looking into such infrastructure details.

One obvious idea is to have charging outlets at our existing multi-storey car-parks. Perhaps high-voltage types which will give a full charge in an hour or maybe less. We already have cashcard-based payment systems which could be put to use.

The next obvious idea is to add to/convert some of the pump points at the petrol (umm, gas) stations. The oil companies will then just have to rebrand themselves as "energy companies", sell a different product and figure out a way to keep the customers occupied and entertained in the meantime while charging.

[Cabrone]

Seems like not everyone is convinced that EVs are going to take off as quickly as the industry thinks.

EV market to remain modest, even if oil price skyrockets

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Asimov should have wrote : Do sheeps dream of electric cars? Our civilization is fucked up, and this pipe dream is a clear sign of denial of the current situation. We think the Titanic won't sink thanks we have many silver spoons in the restaurant. I hate those lies. We are loosing precious time with blabla instead of taking strong decisions.

Do forum members dream of electronic fact checking?

Actually, Philip K. Dick wrote "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (he's one of my favorite authors, so fact checking wasn't required).

The funny/ironic part of that is the central point of all his extensive writing was that man needs to question the nature of reality.

Wow, would he have fit in on this site!

[VMarcHart]

...in fact only one more nuke plant would be needed for electric cars charging (if done at night)

Whereas in theory that should work, I can't wait until J6P tries it out. By analogy, all we need is to do laundry, watch TV, run the dishwasher, and hoover the house at night. How many of us do that?

[yesplease]

Whereas in theory that should work, I can't wait until J6P tries it out. By analogy, all we need is to do laundry, watch TV, run the dishwasher, and hoover the house at night. How many of us do that?

I suppose if we ran them all at once contiguously for four hours or so, it could be an accurate analogy, but how many people vacuum, wash the dishes, watch TV, and do the laundry, all at the same time, for four solid hours every night?

[yesplease]

Actually, Philip K. Dick wrote "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (he's one of my favorite authors, so fact checking wasn't required).

The funny/ironic part of that is the central point of all his extensive writing was that man needs to question the nature of reality.

Wow, would he have fit in on this site!

I don't see many people questioning the nature of reality on this site, but given some of his schizo behavior I think he would fit right in..

At one point Dick felt that he had been taken over by the spirit of the prophet Elijah. He believed that an episode in his novel Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said was a detailed retelling of a story from the Biblical Book of Acts, which he had never read.[17]

In time, Dick became paranoid, imagining plots against him by the KGB and FBI. At one point, he alleged they were responsible for a burglary of his house, from which documents were stolen. He later came to suspect that he might have committed the burglary against himself, and then forgotten he had done so. Dick himself speculated as to whether he may have suffered from schizophrenia.

[Madpaddy]

I have preordered one of these.

http://www.bluecar.fr/en/pages-accueil/default.aspx

[rangerone314]

When I read the title "France launches 'battle of the electric car', I immediately wondered if that meant France would surrender soon.

[davep]

When I read the title "France launches 'battle of the electric car', I immediately wondered if that meant France would surrender soon.

ad hom deleted by eastbay

[yesplease]

When I read the title "France launches 'battle of the electric car', I immediately wondered if that meant France would surrender soon.

Surrendering to an EV on every corner is a lot better than a Nazi on every corner, especially when most off the grid is based on nukes.

[VMarcHart]

...how many people vacuum, wash the dishes, watch TV, and do the laundry, all at the same time, for four solid hours every night?

Exactly my point, isn't it?