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PeakOil is You

The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 17:33:39

Boy, that last $15 billion sure didn't last them very long!
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

George Carlin
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby cube » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 18:56:05

catbox wrote:I wrote a letter to god once. My step dad still beat me and and my dog died. Actually I'm still waiting for a reply.

I went to http://www.stopoilspeculationnow.com/

My greatest fear isn't so much of Uncle Sam shutting down nymex.com or jacking up margin requirements, we ALL see that one coming. Thanks to the internet you can live in Seattle and trade the Dubai exchange if you have to.
however......
If Uncle Sam bans all Americans from speculating anywhere / everywhere, I will have nowhere to run and no where to hide. :?
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby Jack » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 19:05:03

cube wrote:If Uncle Sam bans all Americans from speculating anywhere / everywhere, I will have nowhere to run and no where to hide. :?


Create an operating corporation in BVI, nominee shareholders, held by a lawyer under attorney client privilege. Retain the firm as corporate secretary.

The corporation then opens an account and trades.

DO NOT have signature authority over any offshore bank accounts.

Note: An OPERATING corporation, not merely a financial corporation.

8)
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Re: www.stop oil speculation now.com

Unread postby MrBill » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 04:54:41

Snowrunner wrote:So looks like certain industries (including oil) are getting desperate in trying to get the price of oil down.

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you:

www.stopoilspeculationnow.com


Classic! Thanks. The campaign should be "Do you or someone you know use oil? Then you're both part of the problem!"

I said it once today, but its worth repeating. Ignorance is still our biggest enemy. Even in this age of information! Or disinformation as the case may be? ; - ))
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 11 Jul 2008, 22:02:38

How to Contact Us

Coalition to Stop Oil Speculation Now
c/o Air Transport Association (ATA) of America, Inc.
1301 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW - Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20004-1707


An open letter to the Air Transport Association:

Dear ATA:

Let me get this straight:

Your customer service and ticketing people are inefficient and indifferent. Your baggage handling system is so bad no one that actually wants their stuff to arrive at the same time they do checks bags anymore. You seat me, a 1.75 million mile frequent flyer next to the noisiest, stinkiest babies on the flight. You cannot get a plane between two points in North America in the scheduled time. You are too cowardly to raise ticket prices, so you nickel and dime me with airport fees, surcharges, and extra charges for the most simple things. The restrooms are dirty. You gave me salmonella. I paid $100 more than the person that is sitting next to me on the same flight.

Yet, you expect me to write my incompetent congressperson to supposedly do away with oil speculation which supposedly is the cause of all of your problems? Guess what...Speculation is not the problem, the congress cannot and should not do anything about it, and no amount of whining on your part is going to help, because your business model is no longer viable in the current era.

Instead of spinning your wheels on this sort of activity, you should focus on the real problem: You won't change.

You have some headwinds, to be sure. Your unionized pilots and flight attendants are resisting you. You contracted to run 5 flights a day to places like Fargo, while you are trying to compete against the upstarts in the run between Dallas and Houston. Your fleets, purchased on borrowed money, are no longer appropriate for the type of flying you are doing. You paid your executives hundreds of millions of dollars during the 90's when you should have been making your operations efficient. These are the same management geniuses that completely ignored the issue of energy depletion, and as recently as a couple of years ago had no plans for fuel being at these levels, other than denying the problem and wishing upon a falling star.

I'd like to think you have a chance to survive. After all, you had a glorious past, you have made air transportation in the US so cheap that everyone can afford it. I gotta say, though, that it is looking bad. You should start making other plans for the future.

Write if you can.

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Re: www.stop oil speculation now.com

Unread postby cube » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 00:55:47

MrBill wrote:...
I said it once today, but its worth repeating. Ignorance is still our biggest enemy. Even in this age of information! Or disinformation as the case may be? ; - ))
Sometimes I get this paranoid feeling the "true" reason why the internet was invented was to spread mis-information to keep society perpetually in the dark.
Or is that just another internet conspiracy theory? :wink:
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby ki11ercane » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 01:49:20

Well I tried to post there but my post will be "reviewed by a moderator." I doubt it will be posted. Only "happy spin" for that site.
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 09:22:26

eastbay wrote:It's part of a PR campaign designed to soften up Congress as the airlines prepare to tap into some public money as a short-term fix.


That was my impression to. Congress wants somebody to blame so they don't have to be responsible for their inaction. Airline CEO's also need someone to blame for their failure to plan for this. One hand washes the other. Since high oil prices weren't an obvious inevitability, but the work of evil oil speculators, then they can come whine to Congress for money when they start to go bankrupt.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby efarmer » Sat 12 Jul 2008, 09:51:36

Derek Bok had a line on this:

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."


And so did Will Rogers, the American folk pundit:

A fool and his money are soon elected.
Will Rogers

A holding company is a thing where you hand an accomplice the goods while the policeman searches you.
Will Rogers

Alexander Hamilton started the U.S. Treasury with nothing, and that was the closest our country has ever been to being even.
Will Rogers

An economist's guess is liable to be as good as anybody else's.
Will Rogers

An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out.
Will Rogers

An onion can make people cry but there's never been a vegetable that can make people laugh.
Will Rogers

Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what's going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?
Will Rogers


Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
Will Rogers
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:53:35

If high fuel prices don't ground airplanes then insurance and over-regulation surely will.

``It's bureaucracy gone mad,'' said Trevor Cherrington, 49, a civil servant who paid 90 pounds ($179) for one of the 64-year- old planes' last joyrides. ``If they've been flying this many years, how have they suddenly become dangerous?''

The twin-propeller Dakotas, first built by Douglas Aircraft Co. in 1935, have a maximum altitude of 20,800 feet and top speed of 192 miles an hour, about 30 percent slower than the world's fastest car. In Europe, the model became famous for carrying paratroopers to France from England on D-Day, in 1944, and dropping supplies during the Berlin Airlift, in 1948 and 1949.

``After the war, DC-3s were the backbone of airlines around the world,'' said historian Henry Holden, the author of two books on the aircraft. ``It is an easy airplane to fly, `forgives' many pilot errors, and its reputation has been passed down from generation to generation.''

Fuel costs and soaring commodity prices are also making the upkeep of vintage aircraft more difficult, Parr said. Air Atlantique's DC-6, on display at the Farnborough International Air Show, takes 11,000 liters (2,905 gallons) of aviation fuel.


source: D-Day Dakotas Grounded for Aviators by EU


Maybe a silly example, but in this and other threads posters have raised the spectrum on regulators and governments hindering our ability to adapt and change to a post peak oil world. Certainly not out of the realm of believability!
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 16 Jul 2008, 07:52:51

Pup, +1 !
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Re: An Open Letter to All Airline Customers

Unread postby CarlosFerreira » Wed 16 Jul 2008, 09:23:17

I didn't expect them to acknowledge the stupidity of unrealistically low prices. But this is too much! :?
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby criticalmass » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 15:52:56

Maybe obesity isn't funny, but come on... this is funny stuff!

Lose weight or pay more. I hardly see it as a loss of rights to have to pay more if you take up two seats worth of girth or mass.

:D
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Ferretlover » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 16:11:20

It seems as though the airlines only want perfect, compliant passengers. Look next to seeing no babies or small children allowed because they can't help rescue themselves or they are too disruptive. Then, no elderly because they might need medical attention during the flight. No one with any chronic illness or condition (disabled) for the same reason. No English-first-language on US flights because they might not understand a direction given by the stewards/stewardesses.
Nothing like training the masses to realize that they must exercise restraint in moving around the country.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 28 Oct 2008, 20:08:05

Won't the airlines won't heal their finances some with the pullback in oil prices?
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Aaron » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 11:00:05

I fly frequently all over the globe for work.

I wore a bruise on my right side for a few weeks, from a 3 hour flight next to an obese man in the seat to my left. He took up almost half my seat because he overflowed his. Towards the end of the flight I couldn't help involuntary wincing when I shifted in my seat.

As we exited the plane, he quietly apologized for crowding me.

I was torn...

One the one hand, I doubt very much his weight represents a deliberate choice to be overweight. On the other hand, why should I be physically punished for a stranger's physical condition?

Should the stranger be punished for either a genetic condition causing his obesity, or a lack of will-power in avoiding overeating?

Air travel must be profitable... or there won't be any,

It's a tough question with many nuanced issues.

I rather suspect, as already noted this thread, that the reality of transport fuel costs will force the issue eventually.

Your dog wants mini-fusion reactors.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby Roy » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 11:46:40

I think the idea of charging airline passengers by the their weight and the weight of the luggage is fair.

If that were the case, perhaps peope would be a little more thoughtful when packing for an air trip.

I know I would. If I ever had to get back on a plane again, which I will not do of my own freewill.
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby StuckInPhilly » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 15:22:10

Aaron wrote:I fly frequently all over the globe for work.
I wore a bruise on my right side for a few weeks, from a 3 hour flight next to an obese man in the seat to my left. He took up almost half my seat because he overflowed his. Towards the end of the flight I couldn't help involuntary wincing when I shifted in my seat.
As we exited the plane, he quietly apologized for crowding me.
I was torn...
One the one hand, I doubt very much his weight represents a deliberate choice to be overweight. On the other hand, why should I be physically punished for a stranger's physical condition? Should the stranger be punished for either a genetic condition causing his obesity, or a lack of will-power in avoiding overeating?

I've known quite a few of these people and believe me when I say it takes concerted effort to get that large.

20 or 30 pounds as the years stroll on is not that difficult but the truly obese know what they're doing and know that the modern world will largely adjust for them.

Someone obese from a glandular condition can present documentation.
“In the Soviet Union, capitalism triumphed over communism. In this country, capitalism triumphed over democracy.”
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby lowem » Wed 29 Oct 2008, 23:05:36

If the airlines want to treat passengers like freight, they could stuff them into the 747 freighter/cargo model - they will squeeze in more people that way. Bang for the buck. :lol:
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Re: Airlines May Start Treating Passengers `Like Freight'

Unread postby gwmss15 » Thu 30 Oct 2008, 15:25:22

If they are going to charge extra for large/heavy passenegrs then they should provide a larger seat to go with that extra charge otherwise its unfair and unjustifiable. This can be a seat with the same as any other economy seat just with more width or legroom (tall passengers) then charging extra is fine but not a business class rates.

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"Since we were a family of four, we didn't board and two single passengers did instead. Rather that wait until evening for the next flight we rented a car and drove the 160 miles. "

Why did you not just take an intercity commuter train or even an intercity express bus flying that short 160 mile distance is a real waste of fuel. The flight should not exist its too short.
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