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The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Mon 06 Jul 2009, 23:59:36

lowem wrote:Image

Won't be long before the airlines start employing these Japan train pushers.



wow, after seeing this, it makes you think of Nazi concentration camps forcing people into boxes and showers to be gassed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STNWc7Rlpfk
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Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby anador » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 17:05:19

Ryanair is a hack of an airline.

I personally was returning from the domincan repulic on one of their charter flights a couple years back.

They said their was a fuel shortage on the island and we wouldn't be able to get enough fuel to go to our scheduled stop, and would have to go through Miami. So we made a landing in MIA and they were totally unprepared for our arrival there. We had to wait two hours on the tarmac for gate space and then had to endure the 3 hour sojourn in customs due to our unexpected arrival.

During this whole ordeal the crew of the plane did not disembark, but remained on-board. By the time we had returned they said they could not take us to our destination because of a federal law that limits the amount of time crew can remain on an airliner. They left us in Miami. No representative, no lodging, or connecting flights. We were trapped there for 36 hours before the travel agency managed to get a rep.down to us and organize our flights back.

Neither ryan-air nor the travel agency agreed to take responsibility for the new tickets and we had to pay our own way.

This was all later resolved in a class action lawsuit, but when the rep told the angry assembled crowd that we had to pay I thought they were gonna tear him to shreds :-D
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Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby Quinny » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 18:22:28

Ryanair and Servisair especially together adopt what I consider to be extremely dusious business practices. They rely on very strict T's & C's to maximise profit on 'mistakes' made by those who don't follow them to the letter. I'd advise anyone using them to read the small print very carefully.

eg. They operate a check in online policy, great you might think, but if you don't take a printed copy of your boarding card and just try to check in normally, it costs you £20-£40 to get your boarding card.

The normal final check in time is 40 mins rather than 30 mins for other Airlines, and if you are one minute late, it's the next flight at premium prices - if you're lucky.

I recently did online check-in and arrived well within time, only to find that although I could get on the plane, my baggage couldn't because it was still bound by the 40 minute rule.
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Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby eXpat » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 20:26:24

And let´s not forget the service!
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/ryan.htm
Ryanair is the worst airline I have ever flown. The representatives are rude and insulting. The service is non existent. The additional baggage fee charges are obscene and excessive and you either pay the fees or they refuse to issue boarding passes leaving you stranded at the airport. You have no choice when you are traveling with your spouse and children in a foreign country. Flying Ryanair was a mistake that I will not make again.

I travelled from Stanstead to Rimini yesterday to work for two months. Foolishly I did not check the excess baggage charges on the website. Ok, my fault, when I checked in the bag was 24K instead of the 15K allowed. I had to pay £136 and I will have to pay the same again coming back, unless I want to dump a lot of my stuff. The check in area was chaos as lots of people were opening their cases and dumping things, or trying to put more stuff in their hand luggage, because they had weighed their bags and realized how much it was going to cost them. Also some people were struggling with the machines and payment, my mum helped two people, with Ryanair staff giving no assistance. Low cost airline - what a joke.

Terrible - out from Stansted delayed by 15 hours. Return from Ercan to Stansted flight cancelled and local Ercan staff terrible. The cost for 3 people transferred to Turkish Airlines was an additional £1000.

My family and I travelled from Edinburgh to Malta last week. Herded like cattle at check-in. My daughter had to pay £190.00 excess luggage even though her daughter had no hand luggage. No consideration was used. Inside the aircraft all plastic - no headrest covers. I hope the previous passenger did not have something nasty in their hair. We ordered 2 coffees and 2 small soft drinks. Cost £10.60. Coffee tasted like warmed up dish water. As for announcements, it might as well have been in Chinese as we could not make out most of what was being said.
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Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 21:09:15

I would like point out to people complaining, you get what you pay for.
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Re: This Is A Joke, Right?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 09 Jul 2009, 07:00:41

moderator, please merge with the thread that was started in 2006.. I posted this story couple days ago and it was merged with that thread

just an fyi
Last edited by lowem on Wed 22 Jul 2009, 22:13:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with earlier "passengers as freight" thread and renamed to "The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread"
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby lowem » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 22:20:45

More fun and hilarity :

Ryanair says passengers prefer to stand

Most passengers would be willing to stand during flights if the fare was free, according to a poll released Wednesday by Irish no-frills airline Ryanair ... under the proposal, passengers would lean on a stool or ledge and wear a seatbelt during take off and landing. Passengers would still have to pay taxes and charges imposed by governments or airport operators ... Ryanair this year abandoned plans for a "fat tax" on obese passengers, because it would slow down check-in procedures. The airline has been criticised for considering other money-making schemes including charging people to go to the toilet.


re : Please refer to Japan train pushers photo above :lol:
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 21 Sep 2009, 21:00:43

Well, looks like things are moving forward with the new "cattlecar airline" scheme..
Image
Image
Inspiration behind this is military transport:
Image

Air travel is being overhauled with a new aircraft design which plans to seat passengers facing each other in rows.
The controversial design is intended to save space and money and could see 50 per cent more passengers packed on to each plane.
Howard Guy, director of the UK company Design Q, acknowledges that some people will not be happy with the plan, but says they will be able to pay less for any inconvenience.

'Having passengers face each other is not an ideal situation,' he said. 'But this will see increased revenue for the operator and more economical tickets for the passenger - so by keeping both happy, this concept makes an attractive alternative.

'Sure the passenger can choose a flight facing forward in a traditional seating position, but he or she will have to pay more for the luxury.'
Mr Guy predicts that the design could see a 50 per cent increase in the number of passengers on board and a 30 per cent reduced cost per seat.
However, he did concede that the seats would not be comfortable for passengers on flights of more than two hours.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215081/Packed-like-sardines-New-aircraft-design-plans-seat-passengers-face-face.html
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Mon 21 Sep 2009, 22:40:41

I would rather lay stacked 5 high to the ceiling than be bound like a mental patient to a vertical restraint. Of course if this is only bearable for flights of "less than two hours," I would feel compelled to take the train, provided one exists.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 12 Jun 2013, 09:22:17

How long do you think the USA air travel industry would stay viable if the Government on all levels stopped giving them mass infusions of taxpayer money?
Perhaps a better analog of Amtrak's service--the unprofitable long distance routes, at least--is the US DOT's Essential Air Service. It saw the smallest decline in flights of all airport types, five percent. The EAS was created in 1978, coincident with the deregulation of private airlines, and was "put into place to guarantee that small communities that were served by certificated air carriers before deregulation maintain a minimal level of scheduled air service."

This service costs over $200 million a year, with most of the ~150 affected airports only making a few 19-seat flights a day; you can bet it serves far, far fewer passengers than Amtrak's 5 million annual long-distance passengers, or its 15 million state-supported route passengers. (Amtrak requested $373 million in operating support this year, a number that has been declining rapidly in recent years as ridership has soared.)

I genuinely have nothing against the airline industry, and actually think their private, deregulated system is pretty effective. As a whole, the airline industry also serves many more passengers every year. I don't even really mind the EAS much, although there are some cases where it's clearly being abused. The point is that just as with our system of roads and highways, no travel mode comes without some amount of subsidy (nor should it--mobility is an invaluable public good). Despite this, only rail and transit are portrayed negatively for their dependence on public support.

This double standard is ridiculous, but especially so for the following reason. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars on roads every year and tens of billions on airports and security, and does anyone honestly think either driving or flying has gotten any better? Rail, transit, and bikes on the other hand, the most scorned forms of transportation in this country, and worst funded, are only becoming safer, more convenient, and more popular. I don't even know who the joke is on.
from http://www.betterinstitutions.com/2013/ ... s-get.html

IMO we can no longer afford to keep dumping money down the rat hole of passenger air travel. It is time to pull the plug, auction off the land the airports are sitting on and stop funding the air traffic control system. The airports would be purchased by either airlines or other entities and run at a profit servicing the airlines, routes that do not pay for themselves would be discontinued, and as passengers would have to pay the increased costs of directly funding both the ATC system and the airports the price of a ticket would reflect the actual cost of air travel.

Until the 1950's air travel was only for the wealthy because it was expensive. It is still expensive but now the USA taxpayer is footing the bulk of the costs of flying with subsidies of all sorts, from untaxed fuel to providing airports for the airlines to make money off of. For whatever reason, probably the Cold War, the USA governments at all levels decided airports were a 'common good' and they built or expanded them all over the place. Some of the ones used today are built on the remnants of USAF bases or Naval air stations built in the 1950's and closed not long after because we didn't need so many bases as they initially thought.

Without subsidies passenger air service would dwindle to a few high use routes, mostly between the 50 largest cities in the USA. I am OK with that, using an airline to travel from Detroit to Cleveland or Chicago can generate enough traffic to pay for themselves. If not then they will fall out of the network and people will have to use more efficient and cheaper methods to travel or telecommute.
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Re: Airline considers removing seats, have passengers stand

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 07:20:31

Sixstrings wrote:
Ryanair is considering proposals to make some of its customers stand during flights.

The low-cost airline would charge passengers less on "bar stools" with seat belts around their waists.
Michael O'Leary, the chief executive, has already held talks with US plane manufacturer Boeing about designing an aircraft with standing room.

He is now seeking approval from the Irish Aviation Authority before ordering a new fleet of carriers, according to The Sun.
A Ryanair spokesman told the newspaper: "If they approve it, we'll be doing it."

Mr O'Leary is reported to have got the idea from the Chinese airline Spring, which has put forward similar plans. It estimates space could be made for up to 50 per cent more passengers and costs could be cut by 20 per cent.

It is not the first time Ryanair has come up with a controversial proposal for cutting costs. Earlier this year Mr O'Leary suggested passengers could be charged £1 to use the on-board lavatories.

In an interview on BBC television he said that the low-cost airline was looking at the possibility of installing a coin slot on the lavatory door so that "people might actually have to spend a pound to spend a penny."

Mr O'Leary also considered introducing a "fat tax" for overweight passengers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/5753477/Ryanair-to-make-passengers-stand.html


There is absolutely NO WAY I could ever just stand / squat on a barstool in-flight, no doubt with another passenger standing / squatting three inches from me. Incredible.


Six your worst nightmare has come to pass.
The vertical passenger seat -- or "standing cabin" -- may be the next big cost-cutting move in aviation, according to a new report whose author says the concept could be here within five years.

"I stumbled across the idea when I was looking (into) ways to reduce the flight ticket price," Fairuz Romli, who authored the report published in the IACSIT International Journal of Engineering and Technology, tells CNN by email.

Romli, an aerospace engineering professor at the Universiti Putra Malaysia, says his motivation is to lower the cost of air travel to a level competitive with buses and trains.

Using the popular Boeing 737-300 as an example, his study calculates that a standing cabin would lead to a 21% increase in passenger capacity while dropping ticket prices by as much as 44%.

"I'm a frequent flier and most of the times during domestic flights, it feels like the flying time is very short that the aircraft is already descending for landing before you can unfasten your seatbelt after takeoff," he says.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/10/travel/st ... ane-study/

If you ask me, not that you did, these things are a cross between and English riding saddle and a real seat, all aimed at packing more passengers in less space. Next stage you get a skinny bicycle seat with foot pegs and then after that, a grab rail like the subway.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 10:51:11

You forgot to add the "horizontal stacker" configuration which involves about half a dozen shelves for people to lie on, not unlike the old slave ships in the past.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 11:29:31

I designed a stand-up passenger system for my sci-fi screenplay. The passenger is suspended from a hanger and inserted into the cabin. Kind of like a dry-cleaner rack. If they have to pee, the hanger is routed down the aisle and inserted into the potty room. Valium would help that bash.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 15:17:58

dolanbaker wrote:You forgot to add the "horizontal stacker" configuration which involves about half a dozen shelves for people to lie on, not unlike the old slave ships in the past.


I saw a show about the future of Tokyo Business Hotel(model) where the rooms were nothing but a bunk with a flat screen TV over your face to give you the optical illusion of space. It did not make the idea of a vacation in Tokyo in any way attractive to me, YMMV.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby dolanbaker » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 16:37:12

Subjectivist wrote:
dolanbaker wrote:You forgot to add the "horizontal stacker" configuration which involves about half a dozen shelves for people to lie on, not unlike the old slave ships in the past.


I saw a show about the future of Tokyo Business Hotel(model) where the rooms were nothing but a bunk with a flat screen TV over your face to give you the optical illusion of space. It did not make the idea of a vacation in Tokyo in any way attractive to me, YMMV.

Capsule hotels, great as crash pads for one night.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 10 Apr 2017, 08:09:09

Overbooking has been a problem for a while now. Here is the ultimate example, UAL fully booked a flight, then decided to send four of their company staff on the flight by bumping paying passengers off the flight. When nobody volunteered they randomly selected four people to be bumped, but one of them was a physician who had procedures scheduled for the next morning. When he refused to leave the flight UAL had security forcibly remove him from the aircraft.

Here is a hint for UAL, next time charter a flight for your employees or buy them tickets on another airline. Evicting paying passengers to suit your faulty business model does not make you look good to the paying public.

The Courier-Journal wrote:Video shows man forcibly removed from United flight from Chicago to Louisville

A video posted on Facebook late Sunday evening shows a passenger on a United Airlines flight from Chicago to Louisville being forcibly removed from the plane before takeoff at O’Hare International Airport.

The video, posted by Audra D. Bridges at 7:30 p.m. Sunday, is taken from an aisle seat on a commercial airplane that appears to be preparing to take flight. The 31-second clip shows three men wearing radio equipment and security jackets speaking with a man seated on the plane. After a few seconds, one of the men grabs the passenger, who screams, and drags him by his arms toward the front of the plane. The video ends before anything else is shown.

A United spokesperson confirmed in an email Sunday night that a passenger had been taken off a flight in Chicago.

"Flight 3411 from Chicago to Louisville was overbooked," the spokesperson said. "After our team looked for volunteers, one customer refused to leave the aircraft voluntarily and law enforcement was asked to come to the gate.

"We apologize for the overbook situation. Further details on the removed customer should be directed to authorities."

Bridges, a Louisville resident, gave her account of the flight Sunday night.

Passengers were told at the gate that the flight was overbooked and United, offering $400 and a hotel stay, was looking for one volunteer to take another flight to Louisville at 3 p.m. Monday. Passengers were allowed to board the flight, Bridges said, and once the flight was filled those on the plane were told that four people needed to give up their seats to stand-by United employees that needed to be in Louisville on Monday for a flight. Passengers were told that the flight would not take off until the United crew had seats, Bridges said, and the offer was increased to $800, but no one volunteered.

Then, she said, a manager came aboard the plane and said a computer would select four people to be taken off the flight. One couple was selected first and left the airplane, she said, before the man in the video was confronted.

Bridges said the man became "very upset" and said that he was a doctor who needed to see patients at a hospital in the morning. The manager told him that security would be called if he did not leave willingly, Bridges said, and the man said he was calling his lawyer. One security official came and spoke with him, and then another security officer came when he still refused. Then, she said, a third security official came on the plane and threw the passenger against the armrest before dragging him out of the plane.

The man was able to get back on the plane after initially being taken off – his face was bloody and he seemed disoriented, Bridges said, and he ran to the back of the plane. Passengers asked to get off the plane as a medical crew came on to deal with the passenger, she said, and passengers were then told to go back to the gate so that officials could "tidy up" the plane before taking off.

Bridges said the man shown in the video was the only person who was forcibly removed.

"Everyone was shocked and appalled," Bridges said. "There were several children on the flight as well that were very upset."

The flight was delayed around two hours before it could fly to Louisville, and it arrived in Kentucky later Sunday night. No update was given to the passengers about the condition of the man forcibly removed, Bridges said.


http://www.courier-journal.com/story/ne ... 100274374/
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby Subjectivist » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:56:17

United Airlines stock took a nosedive on Tuesday following controversy over a passenger being physically removed from a company plane

Shares of United Airlines stock took a nosedive in early trading Tuesday after the company found itself mired in controversy stemming from an incident that took place on a company plane over the weekend.

In pre-trading Tuesday, United Airlines stock was down around 6 percent after a poor performance in international markets. Just prior to the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange, the shares rebounded to about -2 percent.

However, as trading began in the U.S. on Tuesday, the stock continued its downward spiral to about -4 percent as of 10:30 a.m. EST. If the trend continues, United is set to lose hundreds of millions in market capitalization, according to Market Watch.

A 3 percent decline would take a staggering $600-700 million off the company’s market value, while a 6 percent decline would erase about $1.4 billion off the company’s market cap.

Needless to say, United is so far feeling the effects of the free market as their public relations nightmare remains ongoing.

Video captured inside of a plane scheduled to go from Chicago to Louisville late Sunday showed a man being brutally dragged from his seat by three airport security personnel after United Airlines overbooked the flight and needed to replace four passengers with crew members.

That man, Dr. David Dao, was one of four passengers randomly selected by United officials to lose their seat, despite already boarding the aircraft. According to video, Dao needed to be back in Louisville to see patients on Monday, which is why he was so reluctant to debark the plane.

After all, the only incentive United offered was an $800 travel voucher — not cash — to passengers who got bumped, which is hardly an incentive to lose a day’s work.

In the end, Dao was left with a bloody face after his head was smashed into an armrest as he was forcefully removed and dragged out of the airplane.

The incident was arguably the biggest news story on Monday, despite an elementary school shooting in California. One of the officers has been placed on leave, according to Chicago Police, while United CEO Oscar Munoz essentially blamed the Dao for what happened.

United Airlines is the third largest airline in the U.S. and is based in Chicago.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 11:33:13

The headline out of LA Times says it all: "United Airlines suffers more bad publicity after a passenger is dragged from an overbooked plane" The CEO of United and the LA Times editorial staff are both stormtroopers and thugs.

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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby MD » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 12:03:51

Why is this in an eight year old thread instead of talking about the current United fiasco? C'mon people, drop the old news and start fresh, this whole "merged thread" nonsense is just that, nonsense. It accomplishes nothing except to clutter the conversation.
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Re: The Desperate Airline Tactics Thread (merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 11 Apr 2017, 12:18:57

The CEO Must Go!
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