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PeakOil is You

The Decline and Fall of the American Empire Pt. 2

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

The Future of America - Video Link

Unread postby Commanding_Heights » Tue 04 Nov 2008, 12:43:23

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Re: America's 'free-fall coming to an end'

Unread postby patience » Mon 13 Apr 2009, 07:49:50

Slight problem with US.gov finances. It seems the tax take is down significantly.

Quote:
"Receipts from individual income taxes fell 27% in March, versus year-earlier figures. Individual refunds are up 14% so far this year. Compared with a year earlier, corporate income tax receipts fell 90% to $3.4 billion."
From Nathan's Blog, at http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... march.html

Meanwhile, spending is going up toward infinity.

The whole piece is worth a read. How the hell are we gonna print our way out of this?
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Re: America's 'free-fall coming to an end'

Unread postby gnm » Mon 13 Apr 2009, 09:43:32

patience wrote:Slight problem with US.gov finances. It seems the tax take is down significantly.

Quote:
"Receipts from individual income taxes fell 27% in March, versus year-earlier figures


Maybe thats a better way of figuring out real unemployment numbers then the pablum the MSM spews... :evil:

-G
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Re: America's 'free-fall coming to an end'

Unread postby shortonoil » Mon 13 Apr 2009, 10:07:40

patience said:

Slight problem with US.gov finances. It seems the tax take is down significantly.

Quote:
"Receipts from individual income taxes fell 27% in March, versus year-earlier figures. Individual refunds are up 14% so far this year. Compared with a year earlier, corporate income tax receipts fell 90% to $3.4 billion." From Nathan's Blog, at http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... march.html

Meanwhile, spending is going up toward infinity.

The whole piece is worth a read. How the hell are we gonna print our way out of this?


This idea of “printing ourselves out of debt is absurd”. It is like trying to pick yourself up in a bucket! The FED does not print money, it prints currency. Until someone assumes a debt no money comes into existence. The truth is that the economy shrunk by 6.3% last quarter. $850 billion per year.

That $850 billion will reflect itself in $ trillions of lost credit origination. Without growth this shebang is going down the drain, and it is going to go about it geometrically.

Without additional energy, economic growth is not going to occur. One hundred years of fossil fuels’ declining ERoEI insures that any additional energy won’t be coming our way soon. Check Mate!

Of course don’t expect to see the common sense that God gave horse-flies from the general public. The society has become so neurotic, so self effacing, so nihilistic it couldn’t find its ass with both hands and a full length mirror. They have been sold on an illusion, and they have swallowed it - hook, line and sinker!




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Re: America's 'free-fall coming to an end'

Unread postby sihmei » Mon 13 Apr 2009, 15:17:17

shortonoil wrote:patience said:

Slight problem with US.gov finances. It seems the tax take is down significantly.

Quote:
"Receipts from individual income taxes fell 27% in March, versus year-earlier figures. Individual refunds are up 14% so far this year. Compared with a year earlier, corporate income tax receipts fell 90% to $3.4 billion." From Nathan's Blog, at http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... march.html

Meanwhile, spending is going up toward infinity.

The whole piece is worth a read. How the hell are we gonna print our way out of this?


This idea of “printing ourselves out of debt is absurd”. It is like trying to pick yourself up in a bucket! The FED does not print money, it prints currency. Until someone assumes a debt no money comes into existence. The truth is that the economy shrunk by 6.3% last quarter. $850 billion per year.

That $850 billion will reflect itself in $ trillions of lost credit origination. Without growth this shebang is going down the drain, and it is going to go about it geometrically.

Without additional energy, economic growth is not going to occur. One hundred years of fossil fuels’ declining ERoEI insures that any additional energy won’t be coming our way soon. Check Mate!


It's amazing how many people think money = wealth. All money does is enable us to more efficiently strip the Earth bare of real wealth - and all real wealth is in the form of energy and natural resources. Always has been, always will be.

If someone thinks money = wealth then imagine being trapped on a desert island with $1 billion in a briefcase. What worth beyond toilet paper and fire kindling what all that paper be then? What would one prefer in such a situation, the $1 billion or a cheap radio to contact for help? Money means nothing without energy and natural resources to represent it. Unfortunately for us apes energy and natural resources are running out. And nature doesn't do bailouts.
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is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:07:24

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Re ... broke.aspx

2nd page of article has a nice chart comparing unfunded obligations to net worth of country.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 14 May 2009, 12:06:26

rangerone314 wrote:http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/InvestForRetirement/is-america-about-to-go-broke.aspx

2nd page of article has a nice chart comparing unfunded obligations to net worth of country.


Interesting, but the article doesn't mention the assets in the social security trust fund-----when Congress starts paying back the trillions they put in the social security trust fund all the excess taxes they've been taking from social security then the social security program will be sound until 2040.....or at least that's what Congress has always claimed.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby mefistofeles » Thu 14 May 2009, 14:43:58

I think the horse is already out of the barn, America isn't going broke its already there.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Thu 14 May 2009, 15:15:00

Government obligations for Social Security and Medicare may soon exceed the combined net worth of every household and nonprofit organization in the country.


The only question is whether there is ANY POSSIBLE WAY for the US to avoid imminent insolvency.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby gnm » Thu 14 May 2009, 15:32:22

mefistofeles wrote:I think the horse is already out of the barn, America isn't going broke its already there.


Yup.

The question is how soon they are incapable of paying even the INTEREST on the debt. I think its like 2011 but it might be sooner given the massive deficit spending...

-G
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby shortonoil » Thu 14 May 2009, 18:56:48

Yup. The question is how soon they are incapable of paying even the INTEREST on the debt. I think its like 2011 but it might be sooner given the massive deficit spending...-G
Retail Sales -0.4% in April from a month ago, well short of economist consensus of +0.1%. Sales are 10.1% lower than a year ago. Ex-auto, sales were -0.5% vs. consensus of +0.2%. Electronics sales fell 2.8% in April, leading decliners. Auto sales were up 0.2%, while building materials were up 0.3%. Motor vehicle and parts sales were 20.7% lower than April 2008.April's sales decline was the eight drop in the last 10 months. With 2/3 of the economy dependent on the consumer, this puts the green shoot theory in the toilet.
US federal debt will be $3 trillion in fiscal ‘09. Foreign investments are now negative, To finance this huge debt they are two choices, increase Treasury bond yields significantly or monetize.
Andy Kessler: "The stock market still has big hurdles to clear. You can have a jobless recovery, but you can’t have a profitless recovery. "

With a GDP of -4+% in ‘09, and likely as bad or worse in ‘10 the plunge in tax receipts is gong to be phenomenal. It doesn’t seem likely that the FED can monetize enough debt to keep the government running past ‘11.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby OutOfGas » Thu 14 May 2009, 19:07:27

We are in DS.

Stock up on food.

Keep some small silver for barter.

Be prepared to take care of your family without Gov. support.

1920's Germany ?
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 14 May 2009, 19:23:52

DS?
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby OutOfGas » Thu 14 May 2009, 19:29:32

Deep Shit
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby shortonoil » Thu 14 May 2009, 19:41:53

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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby alokin » Thu 14 May 2009, 22:24:28

America is far away. which countries is it likely to take with in its free fall?
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby Gerben » Fri 15 May 2009, 00:25:08

alokin wrote:America is far away. which countries is it likely to take with in its free fall?

The UK is in similar trouble. Then there is Ireland in between. Some south European countries are also not doing very well. Some Mid and East European countries borrowed too much in foreign currencies. In short: Europe as a whole could be next.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 15 May 2009, 01:02:46

Who won't it! Seriously - Who hasn't lent it money to prop up the absurd system it's trying to run? When they don't get paid - what's it do to them?

I'm afraid that Amwrica is so central to the global financial system that when they gp the whole pack of cards folds. ThatsTPTB have to do what they are doing. I'm not saying it will work, juse saying they've no option!
Gerben wrote:
alokin wrote:America is far away. which countries is it likely to take with in its free fall?
The UK is in similar trouble. Then there is Ireland in between. Some south European countries are also not doing very well. Some Mid and East European countries borrowed too much in foreign currencies. In short: Europe as a whole could be next.
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby JPL » Fri 15 May 2009, 04:02:34

Ah well, here's something to cheer y'all up:

Image

:-D :-D :-D

JP
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Re: is-america-about-to-go-broke

Unread postby alpha480v » Fri 15 May 2009, 04:40:46

JPL wrote:Ah well, here's something to cheer y'all up:

Image

:-D :-D :-D

JP




Lol! What's this from?
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