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THE Country of Turkey Thread (merged)

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THE Country of Turkey Thread (merged)

Unread postby stu » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 19:16:03

This will have huge implications for the EU if Turkey joins. Trouble ahead for Turkey's EU bid
Turkey's accession to the European Union would mark perhaps the most significant enlargement so far, extending EU borders to Iraq, Syria, Iran and the Caucasus and bringing in for the first time a huge country with a largely Muslim population

Personally I'm in favour. If it helps to build bridges towards the Muslim world then so be it.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 02 Jan 2012, 20:39:16, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Country of Turkey Thread.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby flametree » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 19:43:03

I also hope that the EU can extend to Turkey.

If so it will be well on it way to becoming a global power rather than a regional power. Using consensus and co-operation rather than military power.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 20:30:56

It's not good if you think there will be a large scale movement of population looking for fertile land. If there is a mass movement from the cities back to the land, with the EU, it no longer limits those mass movements to purely within national boundaries. Which can easily lead to conflict and strife.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby Chocky » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 21:16:27

Personally I'm in favour. If it helps to build bridges towards the Muslim world then so be it.


Seems to me that Britain hasn't done that well out of the bridges it built to the Muslim world. I don't live there though, perhaps I'm wrong.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby peripato » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 21:44:12

stu wrote:This will have huge implications for the EU if Turkey joins.

Trouble ahead for Turkey's EU bid

Turkey's accession to the European Union would mark perhaps the most significant enlargement so far, extending EU borders to Iraq, Syria, Iran and the Caucasus and bringing in for the first time a huge country with a largely Muslim population


Personally I'm in favour. If it helps to build bridges towards the Muslim world then so be it.

Unless you're Greek or Greek Cypriot. My family comes from an island bordering Asia Minor (3 miles to Turkey). Turkey has contested the validity of Greek sovereignty in this area of the Aegean for years, coming close to confilict with Greece many times over issues such as seabed demarcation, oil potential, flight information ranges etc, most recently during the Imia Crisis 1996.Link.

The inclusion of Turkey into EU membership would open up the possibility for Turkish settlement of the islands close to her coast, of which she has coveted for many years, legally possible with this move as EU citizens are entitled to live and work where they please anywhere inside the borders of the Union. Same goes for the rest of unocccupied Cyprus.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 22:29:39

I thought there was some ruling that countries with terratorial disputes with EU members could not join the EU.

What is Spain's status with the EU? UK and Spain still dispute Gibraltar.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby peripato » Mon 03 Oct 2005, 23:22:22

rogerhb wrote:I thought there was some ruling that countries with terratorial disputes with EU members could not join the EU.

What is Spain's status with the EU? UK and Spain still dispute Gibraltar.

Yes I believe the Gibraltar dispute is still active but this is a colonial issue. However the difference is that Spain is not disputing the U.K's territorial integrity as a result of this old colonial issue.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby peripato » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 01:01:25

ElijahJones wrote:It does seem that you have to go way back to find common culture between Turkey and Greece, way, way back like 2000 years. I hope it works out for the best. At any rate one might say symobically that the eastern and western empires have been joined again and that this union predates Ottoman and Byzantine, a union not seen for sixteen centuries. That's symbolically pretty powerful, Rome has risen again.

Greeks, Turks, and in general all balkan peoples share a tremendous shared cultural traditon but this shared tradition is very complex to say the least. The Turks as Ottomans borrowed from Byzantium when they overran it, the Greeks as Romans - citizens of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium, of which Asia Minor, present day asiatic Turkey, was its heartland) borrowed much in turn from the Turks. To this day Greeks colloqually refer to themselves as Romyi, and the Turkish state refers to the few thousand Greeks still living in Turkey, as Rum.

There does exist a degree of popular affection between the two peoples, myself having a number of Turkish friends. However the Turkish state and the Kemalist ideology that holds sway in that country is implacably anti-Greek. Looking through the prism of peak oil one can only shudder at what is in store for my beloved island once the consequences of overshoot become apparent.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby MicroHydro » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 01:41:11

It might have worked well during the boom of the 1990s, perhaps. I doubt it will end well as people of all nations come under stress as a result of peak oil.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby Licho » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 04:00:07

It's interesting that more Cypriots and Greeks (30%+) than for example Austrians(10%) support Turkey membership..
I personally support membership of Turkey, but I'm afraid that if referendum is held, it won't approve it..
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby MrBean » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 05:40:08

peripato wrote:Unless you're Greek or Greek Cypriot. My family comes from an island bordering Asia Minor (3 miles to Turkey). Turkey has contested the validity of Greek sovereignty in this area of the Aegean for years, coming close to confilict with Greece many times over issues such as seabed demarcation, oil potential, flight information ranges etc, most recently during the Imia Crisis 1996.Link.

The inclusion of Turkey into EU membership would open up the possibility for Turkish settlement of the islands close to her coast, of which she has coveted for many years, legally possible with this move as EU citizens are entitled to live and work where they please anywhere inside the borders of the Union. Same goes for the rest of unocccupied Cyprus.



Na perpatáme mazí me tous Toúrkous! Na chorépsoune tsiftetéli o Yannis ke o Osman!

Greek governements, both Pasok's and Nea Dimokratia's, have been strongly in favour of Turkey's membership, as they see that being the only feesible way to solve those territorial and other disagreements and the question of Cyprus, and "pacify" Turkish nationalism. Eternal blame gaming and hatemongering between the two nations won't solve anything, so I'm fully in agreement with this aspect of Greek foreign policy.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby spear » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 10:23:12

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Im busy now but I will post in a bit.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby spear » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 12:41:00

When and if Turkey enters the EU,Europe will be flooded with 20 MILLION Turkish peasants looking for a better and EASIER life.
Now which countries are going to absorb these people I ask.
And who will be the first to come over??The PRISONERS.
They will empty out their prisons first and get rid of all their headaches.
We saw this in the early nineties when the Albanians started entering Europe.
So the Europeans will know who they will be living next to,when the first wave of their new EU brethren arrives.Thats for starters.
And how long will it take until everything is organized and the new members start paying their taxes??If ever.Until then who is going to foot their bills??
The rest of us,thats who.The rest of the EU.


WHY does the US and Britain support Turkey so much??
Maybe the Bosporus?Maybe Turkish western borders?Maybe the oil in the Aegean?Which is why all the disputes over the borders between Turkey and my country.Or because of the cheap labor.Maybe Im missing something here.

There were 43 invasions of Greek air space by Turkish fighter planes a few days ago when the negotiations were going bad.And dogfights.All this in one day.This is a daily thing here,one or two,but 43 is a record first.
In other words,if we dont get what we want,we terrorize you.Thats what they are saying.
And its not Greek air space only anymore,its EU air space.So they are spitting right in everyones face ALREADY.,during negotiations for ACCEPTANCE.Showing no respect for anything.
So if they do this now,what will they do later??
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby elroy » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 14:52:25

I remember reading a poll not long ago that showed most turkish have no intentions of moving to Europe, if Turkey should join the EU. They believe Turkey shows much more economic growth potential and would rather stay there and make something of it.
I don't see the problem with it really. I think the muslim aspect of Turkey is blown way out of proportion.
Regardless of Turkey joining or not, subsidies and such things will have to be changed anyway. Agriculture subsidies make up the majority of the EU budget anyway and it's getting out of control. Besides, it's unfair competition for third world nations.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby stu » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 17:18:19

That's one of the big fears-mass migration. The reality will be that Turkey will have a small economy compared to Western European ones if they eventually join. This will undoubtedly mean that you'll see loads of Turks heading West. The same thing happened when the former Soviet countries joined and it'll happen when Romania and Bulgaria join in a couple of years.

Interestingly 80% of Austrians are against Turkey joining.

So much for "time heals all wounds".
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby MrBean » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 18:00:48

spear wrote:ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


I see that you are still fighting the barbarian hordes of Dareios and Xerxes. You know, that was before Al the Great, who also lived long time ago.

By asking membership in EU Turkey is not asking that we give our Earth and Water, but offering to share their Earth and Water with ours, under common rules. Telling Turkey to "just try take it" or to "bring it on", as Bush expressed the same sentiment, would be very insulting when only a hand of frienship is extended.
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby peripato » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 20:31:33

WHY does the US and Britain support Turkey so much??
Maybe the Bosporus?Maybe Turkish western borders?Maybe the oil in the Aegean?Which is why all the disputes over the borders between Turkey and my country.Or because of the cheap labor.Maybe Im missing something here.

There were 43 invasions of Greek air space by Turkish fighter planes a few days ago when the negotiations were going bad.And dogfights.All this in one day.This is a daily thing here,one or two,but 43 is a record first.
In other words,if we dont get what we want,we terrorize you.Thats what they are saying.
And its not Greek air space only anymore,its EU air space.So they are spitting right in everyones face ALREADY.,during negotiations for ACCEPTANCE.Showing no respect for anything.
So if they do this now,what will they do later??

First Thrace with its large muslim minority, and the eastern aegean islands will be softened up for conquest by fair means or foul, then as PO takes effect by more blunt ones.

Concerning Greek national airspace, it should be noted that until 1975 – that is to say, for 44 years – Turkey never once challenged the breadth of 10 n.m. {limit} In fact, she recognized and respected it in practice.
Since 1975 however, Turkey has reversed this policy, and Turkish warplanes have regularly violated Greek national airspace on an ever increasing basis. It should be noted that, during the last three years in particular, the number of violations has sky-rocketed, not only between 6 and 10 n.m. from the Greek coast, but frequently within 6n.m., and often even over Greek island territory.

When Greece protests against these violations, Turkey typically replies that she does not consider that her aircraft flying between 6 and 10 n.m. from the Greek coasts violate Greek airspace. Greek aircraft are forced to intercept all Turkish warplanes that violate Greek national airspace.

As a consequence, Turkey's violations bring with them the daily threat of instability in the region. It is not coincidental that Turkey “discovered” her claims with respect to Greek national airspace in 1975, the year she first began to push her claims to the Aegean continental shelf in earnest. Clearly, Turkey wishes to limit Greek sovereign rights in the whole of the Aegean, in contravention of international law.

Unilateral Turkish Claims in the Aegean
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Re: Turkey and the EU.

Unread postby 101 » Tue 04 Oct 2005, 23:29:07

And how long will it take until everything is organized and the new members start paying their taxes??If ever.Until then who is going to foot their bills??
The rest of us,thats who.The rest of the EU.


Has Greece not received more from the EU than it has put in?
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