THE Cold Fusion Thread pt 4 (merged)

[yeahbut]

And another thing Bill, altho I am with SG in that I side with you in terms of scepticism re Rossi, why don't you try using the quote function, condensing some of those quotes, and generally aiming for a bit more legibility. Carl is right when he says some of your posts are unreadable. It's really started to look a bit like spam, the last few days. And ease up on the ad-homs, it just makes you look daft.

[Alcassin]

Sorry guys, but I'm on the side of blinkybill. Carlhole what had happenned to you for the last few years is just astonishing, to become a cheerleader for some kind of woo. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Woo

Too many people are not going for a rational explanation, but for a viral marketing strategy of Woo like zero-point energy, Steorn, antigravity and LENR. Rossi happens to be a fraud, there is nothing good in faith in fraud. There is no independent content about this guy except his news about him in the "blogosphere".


Andrea Rossi in his "laboratory".

He presents level of knowledge like watthour per hour which completely exposed him, it's a non sequitur. It's just alchemy for idiots of 21st century, like homeopathy. Surely people who tend to have cranky theories in mind are going to buy him. It's a well packaged and served bullshit, but it's bullshit nevertheless. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bullshit

There is also nothing in these that would indicate any nuclear reaction going. It's a scam, nothing will work there. And you are going to mark my words and this topic how fooled you can be without basic training in methodology.

I really hope you are going to read Ben Goldacre's "Bad science" You are just wasting your time.

[SeaGypsy]

Thing is I think, going off tap about it doesn't help your side of the debate.
This thread is a good read, right up to the point where people start swearing at each other and name calling. This site rightly prides itself on being open to all points of view, in support of which, even when we utterly disagree we should keep a good spirit among us. Life is too short and can be a lot more fun.

[Cog]

BB's informational posts are a good counter-point to the Rossi scam-pumping posts made by others.

All voices should be heard on this either this world changing invention or this most exquistely planned scam.

[steam_cannon]

You and all your fellow LENR cultists are grasping at straws and claiming that the tenuous connections with respectable institutions imply endorsement.

You have NOTHING.

Speaking of respectable institutions I give you Brian Josephson of Cambridge. He may not represent the whole of Cambridge as an institution, but he is a respectable physicist and has well thought out opinions. He gives a thorough and positive presentation on Rossi's work.

Quote from the presentation:
"For those aware that the current view of cold fusion is due more to effective propaganda then to any objective assessment of the evidence, Rossi's claims came as less of a surprise. While various factors can influence the result of the heat measurement, investigations to date have failed to uncover anything that would challenge the conclusion that a nuclear process is involved."

Video: Brian Josephson - Cambridge:
http://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/1150242

Description: In January 2011 Andrea Rossi demonstrated a device that purported to develop 10 kW of power from a nuclear reaction. This video discusses its credibility, the investigations that have been done on the device, and its future prospects (a multiple-unit system was measured by its potential buyer as generating 500 kW on Oct. 28, 2011).

Abstract: In January 2011 Andrea Rossi demonstrated a device that purported to develop 10 kW of power from a nuclear reaction. This video discusses its credibility, the investigations that have been done on the device, and its future prospects. The nuclear power claim can be tested by measuring total energy over a period of time and comparing it with what would be possible from conventional energy sources[1]. Previous claims of this kind, beginning with that of Fleischmann and Pons in 1989 [2], have been generally doubted, but it is argued that this general doubt owes more to the persuasive power of rhetoric than to the actual facts.

In contrast to the ITER thermonuclear project, where practical application is decades away, reactors of the Rossi type are already in production and, according to NASA Chief Scientist Dennis M. Bushnell, may be capable of "completely changing geo-economics, geo-politics, and solving climate and energy"[3].

[1] http://bit.ly/CFnyteknik
[2] http://lenr.org
[3] http://www.evworld.com/evworld_audio/de ... _part1.mp3 .

YouTube version of this video, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8eIhth8Iw8 .

[Cog]

Was Brian Josephson of Cambridge at any of Rossi's demonstations? If he wasn't he isn't qualified to judge whether fraud was involved or not.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Was Brian Josephson of Cambridge at any of Rossi's demonstations? If he wasn't he isn't qualified to judge whether fraud was involved or not.

He is now a telepathy and "consciousness of Universe" advocate, though.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/sep/3 ... heobserver

[Keith_McClary]

"Transmutation of elements via the FPE may replace mining."

It'll do more than that. it'll kill the entire precious metals business
which has been a foundation for countries' *monetary systems*. What affect
that will have on economic systems, and countries, is probably not going to
be pretty.

Which countries would that be?

[TheAntiDoomer]

Carlhole, don't let the idiots get you down, I really enjoy your post here and hope you continue.

[Schadenfreude]

Carlhole, don't let the idiots get you down, I really enjoy your post here and hope you continue.

When there's news, I'll post it.

But just to re-iterate, I have no opinion on the validity of Rossi or Defkalion's systems but I think there's something to LENR science in general. It remains to be seen if it can produce commercial quantities of energy.

It seems highly improbable to me that multiple simultaneous frauds are being perpetrated. It also seems unlikely that a well-known company like National Instruments, Inc. could be working with Rossi and fail to sniff out any such fraud. And I still can't see how Rossi or Defkalion could possibly hope to profit of their dueling "scams".

National Instruments

Innovators throughout the world are using the NI graphical system design approach to efficiently address the world’s grand engineering challenges in medical technology, urban infrastructure, alternative energy and other critical applications. In physics specifically, NI has contributed product solutions to some of the most advanced projects including the CERN Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and tokamak fusion device control systems. Additionally, the Leonardo Corporation has intentions to incorporate NI tools in its control system.

Meanwhile, other players seem on the verge to enter the commercial arena - such as Lattice Energy, Piantelli's group, Brillioun Energy, etc.

If some moron thinks this story is not worth following in a thread on a site devoted to energy, he/she is...well... a moron.

[Daniel_Plainview]

When there's news, I'll post it.

News flash: scams are NOT news.

But just to re-iterate, I have no opinion on the validity of Rossi or Defkalion's systems but I think there's something to LENR science in general. It remains to be seen if it can produce commercial quantities of energy.

You're a liar. You have an obvious and consistent bias toward advocating Rossi and Defkalion. There is no doubt.

You are busted as a liar, and we rest our case.

It seems highly improbable to me that multiple simultaneous frauds are being perpetrated. It also seems unlikely that a well-known company like National Instruments, Inc. could be working with Rossi and fail to sniff out any such fraud. And I still can't see how Rossi or Defkalion could possibly hope to profit of their dueling "scams".

lol ... it's just amazing the amount of garbage you spew out ... I just hope you don't believe it yourself ...

[TheAntiDoomer]

and no matter how much you Cry like a baby DP, we'll continue to discuss the issue here.

[Daniel_Plainview]

and no matter how much you Cry like a baby DP, we'll continue to discuss the issue here.

Oh, how nice to hear from a low-class garbage troll like Antidoomer ... whose Cornucopian fantasy world is being crushed on a daily basis.

It's extremely predictable that you'd support liars like Carlhole ... just like you supported eestor, formic acid batteries, and other delusional Cornucopian fantasies.

You are a pure, absolute troll ... and your escalating desperation is becoming obvious.

Yet, we encourage your posts ... as they provide us with both welcome humor and abundant ammunition for further criticism.

[Schadenfreude]

You're a liar. You have an obvious and consistent bias toward advocating Rossi and Defkalion.

Most of the time I just post news. I've repeatedly said since the beginning that I have no opinion on rossi or dekalion but either one of these makes some news, I post it. A lot of the time i don't bother to comment.

Ad hom deleted.

Besides, you are just not worth listening to. Here was YOUR take on the Rossi/Defkalion split:
4. Defkalion wanted to cut its losses and cover its ass.

If you don't want to follow the story, then get Inappropriate language deleted. lost.

[Schadenfreude]

You are clearly a Rossi fanboy, and the ONLY reason you profess to be "neutral" is to lure more suckers and airheads like Antidoomer into your camp

Inappropriate posts deleted.

And i've said so many times in previous posts: search.php?keywords=magic+beans&t=60688&sf=msgonly

When you report a story that someone selling magic beans is scamming fools, that's not news nor is it interesting. However, when you report that a whole coterie of PhDs claim that there just might be something to these beans after all, then it becomes news and it becomes interesting. ...
You guys just want to dismiss this ongoing drama while I do not. I can always count on the doom crowd to take any negative side, so I don' t have to bother much with that - and also the negative side, like I said, is not news and not interesting.

If it weren't for scientists like Sven Kullander, Chairman of the Energy Committee, Royal Academy of Sciences, Sweden; or Hanno Essen, Theoretical Physicist, University of Stockholm; Or Brian Ahern of MIT; orthe many professors surrounding Rossi at the University of Bologna; or the endorsement of Ampenergo, Inc. (links to DoD); or many others, my fancy might not have been tickled quite so much. but these are people I find difficult to ignore.

You guys DO ignore them.Inappropriate language deleted.

[Daniel_Plainview]

You idiots are the ones that characterize me as a believer. Not me.

The problem is that while you CLAIM to be neutral, your ACTUAL posting pattern is 99% biased toward being a Rossi fanboy.

There's no doubt that you're intelligent enough to sprinkle your posting history with an occasional anti-Rossi blurb ... just for show. But anyone with a brain sees through this ruse ... this facade ... this deception. No one believes you anymore, Carlhole. You're busted.

More importantly, since October 31, Rossi has refused to legitimize his e-cat, and instead has endeavored down a path consistent with fraud and subterfuge. This will become the "Scam of the Century," and Carlhole will become the "Joke of the Decade" ...

[Daniel_Plainview]

Inappropriate language deleted. because your a bunch of bonehead morons who just want to shut this energy news thread down.

No one wants to shut down this thread. All we require is honesty ... and for you to claim that you're "neutral" ... when in fact you're the quintessential Rossi fanboy ... is the height of deception.

You're a liar. And you're busted. We can't wait for Ferret Lover to boot out liars, frauds, and charlatans ....

[Ferretlover]

Nope.

Like I have repeatedly said, time after time after time, the validity of the Rossi/Defkalion devices is hard to believe. However, the dueling scams idea is incredibly difficult to believe. Also there is the Piantelli group, Lattice energy and Brillioun energy that are ALSO looking to commercialize.

Just how many LENR scams are operating in the world today. and how do they expect to pull off any kind of scam?

This is all very puzzling and intriguing so I decided to post news from these outfits along with news from other LENR scientists around the world. Inappropriate language deleted.

[Schadenfreude]

Besides, you guys want ME to explain the validity of Rossi/Defkalion systems (which I can't), but you refuse to explain how these multiple competing LENR scams could possibly make any money for the multiple LENR scammers out there.

You have said that you don't have to explain the scam(s). And when you tried, you've been wrong. Well, you know, when you call something a "scam" (a swindle), you have to explain HOW it is a swindle - otherwise, you can't call it a scam.

So, it's pretty clear that you just want to shut the thread down. You spend all your time attacking the messenger instead of trying to figure out what exactly is going on here.

So how do you explain the dueling scams THIS time, einstein?

This is something I would sure like to know.

[Schadenfreude]

Just following the story hey Banana Man?
Do you even care about the retirees, small business people, redundancy payout investors, and all other victims of this multi-level SCAM?

Rossi nor anyone else is accepting funds from these kinds of investors; says it's "too risky" for these kinds of investors.

In his last interview, Rossi said that "large hedge funds are welcome but only at a very small percentage of investment".

And besides not knowing what a pyramid scheme is, you don't know what a "multilevel scam" is either. You just throw terms around without bothering to know what they mean. I'd love to hear how and why you define Rossi's business as a "pyramid scheme". Ha! Let's hear the analysis!

And yes, I'm just following the story and posting news. This is all cold fusion news and I place it in the proper place in the cold fusion thread here at PO.com. Get over it, dumbass.