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THE Coal Thread pt 3 (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 09:21:09

hillsidedigger wrote:I think it would be better to just flush the coal-ash down the rivers.
8O 8O 8O 8O
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby rangerone314 » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 09:26:54

Ludi wrote:
hillsidedigger wrote:I think it would be better to just flush the coal-ash down the rivers.
8O 8O 8O 8O
How about we pass a law to store coal ash on the properties of those who have the own the largest share of the coal companies?

If capitalist theory entitles them to the "product" of their "risk-taking with their capital" shouldn't they get the waste products as well as the profit from such ventures?

That's assuming you think capitalist theory is valid.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby GASMON » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 09:45:22

Alice in Wonderland !!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Hatter

Although the name 'Mad Hatter' was undoubtedly inspired by the phrase "as mad as a hatter," there is some uncertainty as to the origins of this phrase. As mercury was used in the process of curing felt used in some hats, it was impossible for hatters to avoid inhaling the mercury fumes given off during the hat making process. Hatters and mill workers often suffered mercury poisoning as residual mercury vapor caused neurological damage including confused speech and distorted vision; hatmaking was the main trade in Stockport, near where Carroll grew up. It was not unusual then for hatters to appear disturbed or mentally confused; many died early as a result of mercury poisoning. However, the Mad Hatter does not exhibit the symptoms of mercury poisoning, which include "excessive timidity, diffidence, increasing shyness, loss of self-confidence, anxiety, and a desire to remain unobserved and unobtrusive."

Good place to practice mercury in food distribution, the USA, as most "inmates" are half mad allready !!!

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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 09:50:58

rangerone314 wrote:How about we pass a law to store coal ash on the properties of those who have the own the largest share of the coal companies?


How about we pass a law that anyone who gets utility power from coal-fired power plants gets mailed their share of ash from the emissions used to generate the power consumed?

(Really tired of the blindness that people have to the CONSUMER end of the economy in pursuit of blaming only big business.)
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 10:35:37

mos6507 wrote:
rangerone314 wrote:How about we pass a law to store coal ash on the properties of those who have the own the largest share of the coal companies?
How about we pass a law that anyone who gets utility power from coal-fired power plants gets mailed their share of ash from the emissions used to generate the power consumed?
(Really tired of the blindness that people have to the CONSUMER end of the economy in pursuit of blaming only big business.)
I'll go with this. It can be a reverse VAT, called VET(Value Excised Tax). The more electricity used, the more coal ash you get.

And Coal Fired Plants are Death Factories.
James Hansen: Coal-fired power plants are death factories. Close ...
Feb 15, 2009 ... One of the world's foremost climate experts, James Hansen launches an excoriating and pointed attack on Britain's long love affair with the ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/.../feb/.../j ... lants-coal

What do you expect when you burn dirt?
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby frankthetank » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 10:48:04

Weird... I just was reading about this in a paper article from the late 90's out in Washington state. There has been plenty of this done already. Nothing new here. The thing is two sided, for the most part. There are some beneficial metals in the ash, but there are also some nasty ones. Most likely it all depends on the crop and how it is taken up.

Aren't all these heavy metals already released into the environment when the coal is burned?

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource. ... ug=2547907

I know south of my area, the local coal power plant wanted to "store" the ash on some land they owned, but all the neighbors were up in arms and i think they've backed off the idea. I say ship it to China. They already send us enough poison.
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby pablonite » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:00:35

"exhibit the symptoms of mercury poisoning, which include "excessive timidity, diffidence, increasing shyness, loss of self-confidence, anxiety, and a desire to remain unobserved and unobtrusive."

Is this what we call Autism?

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vac ... rcury.html
For decades, half of all childhood vaccines contained a chemical preservative called Thimerosal.

It is made from mercury, one of the most poisonous substances on Earth...
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby pablonite » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:00:51

http://www.indiaresource.org/campaigns/ ... oning.html

Distributing Toxic Waste as Fertilizer

Some of Coca-Cola's practices in India have been downright absurd.

In a "goodwill gesture", Coca-Cola was distributing the solid waste from its bottling plants to farmers in the area as fertilizer. The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) had the waste tested and found extremely high levels of heavy metals such as lead and cadmium in the waste, effectively making the solid waste toxic. When confronted by the BBC reporter on their practice of distributing toxic waste as fertilizer, Coca-Cola's Vice-President said, "It's good for the farmers because most of them are poor." The Coca-Cola company was ordered to stop the practice by the government authorities immediately.


There is a good documentary out there on Coke that proves this was not an isolated case but the hypocrisy is getting unbearable...

Brought to you by the proud sponsors of Hopenhagen???

http://www.hopenhagen.org/cocacola

Water Stewardship

The world has a finite amount of water, but if managed properly there is enough to meet our personal, agricultural, and industrial needs, as well as those of nature. To that end, Coca-Cola is working to help ensure this vital resource is managed sustainably. By working with WWF to protect rivers and lakes, and spearheading over 200 community water programs in over 60 countries, Coca-Cola hopes to establish a water-sustainable business on a global scale.
Learn more about Coca-Cola’s Water Stewardship >>


Is this just greenwashing or are the global corps actually running the EPA, USDA now?
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby frankthetank » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:27:29

When you think about it, they could probably label it as "organic" ...right?
lawns should be outlawed.
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby gnm » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:47:39

mos6507 wrote:How about we pass a law that anyone who gets utility power from coal-fired power plants gets mailed their share of ash from the emissions used to generate the power consumed?

(Really tired of the blindness that people have to the CONSUMER end of the economy in pursuit of blaming only big business.)


So you're all off grid now Mos? Where can we mail your coal ash? I'm guessing my pile would be a little biit smaller. :evil:

But isn't that sort of like going after crack smoking punks rather than pushers and producers? While in principle I wouldn't go after either. Perhaps apples and oranges too - crack not affecting the rest of the world and all. I'm all for phasing out coal plants right now. But we better start building nukes unless you want the other option - zombie anarchy... :mrgreen:

-G
I Have and will continue to vote against ANY politician who supports the various bailouts. Curse you for selling out our future for status quo now!
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:55:55

gnm wrote:So you're all off grid now Mos?


I believe my electricity comes from natural gas.

gnm wrote:But isn't that sort of like going after crack smoking punks rather than pushers and producers?


I don't think so, no. When you buy power you are endorsing how that power is generated. Sure, there is limited choice, but if the public clamored hard enough for alternatives, and were willing to pay for it, then they would materialize. As long as the pollution happens "somewhere else" then they aren't motivated to do anything about it.
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 13:41:42

gnm wrote:But we better start building nukes unless you want the other option - zombie anarchy... :mrgreen:




Yeah, better get on it! How many are you building?
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby highlander » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 14:17:10

mos6507 wrote:When you buy power you are endorsing how that power is generated. Sure, there is limited choice, but if the public clamored hard enough for alternatives, and were willing to pay for it, then they would materialize.


This should be quote of the year for Peak Oil.
This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby gnm » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 15:13:48

mos6507 wrote:I believe my electricity comes from natural gas.


All of it? Really? Whew, well good thing we have an endless supply then.... :lol:

mos6507 wrote:I don't think so, no. When you buy power you are endorsing how that power is generated. Sure, there is limited choice, but if the public clamored hard enough for alternatives, and were willing to pay for it, then they would materialize. As long as the pollution happens "somewhere else" then they aren't motivated to do anything about it.


The public is apparently too worried about who won American idol to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and plan for the future...
As such, I have made the only changes I can. To my own usage and household. Funny - I could let it happen somewhere else but have chosen not too...

Ludi, I would love to own a nuke plant but since its not in my ability to implement, I have implemented what I can - Solar thermal and PV. :mrgreen:

-G
I Have and will continue to vote against ANY politician who supports the various bailouts. Curse you for selling out our future for status quo now!
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby kpeavey » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 17:52:15

EPA and USDA says its safe. Where is the empirical study supporting the stuff as a safe soil amendment?

TVA coal ash spill is resulting in millions of dollars in damage claims.

Feed the stuff grown with it to the kids and families of the EPA and USDA bureaucrats who say its safe.

A solution may be found using the stuff as a soil amendment for non-food crops. Fiber and ornamental plants are possibilities but kids wear cotton and people take flowers to other people at hospitals. Lawns at geriatric centers don't see too many kids playing on the lawn. Biofuel and bioplastics crops seem to me to be the best use, but that land would need to be permanently prohibited for using as food crop or grazing land.

The mercury and heavy metals exist in small amounts in the coal ash, but the problem of build up needs to be resolved. Next year that same land gets treated again with the stuff. Then the year after, and the year after... If these toxins are not building up in the soil, they are moving into the groundwater or removed with the harvested food. Either way is a path to the human bodies consuming the food and water. Once in the human body the stuff will accumulate.

Grow your own food or buy it from a farmer you can trust.
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
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twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby timmac » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 18:10:47

gnm wrote:So you're all off grid now Mos? Where can we mail your coal ash? I'm guessing my pile would be a little biit smaller. :evil:

But isn't that sort of like going after crack smoking punks rather than pushers and producers? While in principle I wouldn't go after either. Perhaps apples and oranges too - crack not affecting the rest of the world and all. I'm all for phasing out coal plants right now. But we better start building nukes unless you want the other option - zombie anarchy... :mrgreen:
So can we use your back yard for that nuke waste than ??, can't use Nevada anymore.. :o
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby leaflight » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 19:33:54

Bio char is not to be confused with waste ash from coal plants.

bio char from sticks , trees etc, has increased crop yields 100 to 400 percent, depending of course on variety of plants.

biochar dot info has even pictures to prove the amazing capabilities of bio char, and once applied unlike fertilizers than need to be constantly applied in it biochar stays in the soil for centuries, bringing it to life with microorganism colonies that promote root growth etc, and holds in co2 and fertilizers from being leached away.

Much Less fertilizer, means less energy and waste needed.


Also molasses contains carbon in it and is amazing on plants, causing in 8 weeks, some plants to grow twice the size of others that were not given the molasses, I think it was two tablespoons a gallon of water, and used on the plants twice in a eight week period.

Molasses is also a main ingredient in many plant tonics, people buy from stores or online.

I once grew some tobacco plant seedlings and placed a wine fermenting bottle over the plants in a big plastic tub container to capture the co2 from the fermentation process, like a waterfall over the seedlings they grew more twice as much in 48hrs from this than they did in a week, or from fertlizer alone.
The co2 doubled their size in less than 48hrs and the seedlings without the c02 were 100% smaller and less green etc compared to the seedlings given the co2 waterfall bath.

Also it is a known fact in the lush jungles the decomposing moss etc produces a molasses type water, full of co2 and or carbon and a main ingredient why lush jungles have such large and rapid growth cycles.
And in turn they produce vast amounts of Oxygen.

Co2 and or carbon is plant and planet friendly and causes oxygen production and plant life to flourish.

Those who demonize Co2 and or Carbon are giving out not the big picture , but false facts for a Trojan attempt of tyranny gooberment control, like gore they are being exposed by scientist etc with integrity around the world that do not give out false facts for the pretense of using it as a Trojan for tyranny control against our Most high rights.

A good name is better than riches alone as Solomon said.

Al gore also and others with this Trojan tyranny control wealth/health care bill, do not have good names just some money.

Their legacies will be as the liars false factors they are, their greed shall trouble them also as Solomon said.


8O :mrgreen:
Love never fails, in life and death, feast and fast it rises and lives on.Enjoy what never fails LovE EternaL
( LE EL)

Also Oregano oil for staph etc, parsely for lung cancer etc, tumeric for tumor cells etc, milk thistle for liver kidney and brain rejuvenation and detoxification and protection research it?
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby mos6507 » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 20:38:29

gnm wrote:
mos6507 wrote:I believe my electricity comes from natural gas.
All of it? Really? Whew, well good thing we have an endless supply then.... :lol:
I am in no way cheering over it. There was an oil drum piece a year or two ago fearmongering over new england's natural gas supplies that made me positively worried about it. This was all pre-shale-gas of course.
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby Jotapay » Tue 22 Dec 2009, 20:39:06

So let me get this straight:

Arsenic, mercury = GOOD

CO2 = BAD


Got it. Good to know we live in bizarro world now.
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Re: US encouraged to use mercury containing coal ash on crops

Unread postby gnm » Wed 23 Dec 2009, 12:32:18

timmac wrote:So can we use your back yard for that nuke waste than ??, can't use Nevada anymore.. :o


You already are smarty..... 8) WIPP ring a bell? So pick one...

1. strip mine, remove mountaintops and rain down methyl mercury, release gigatons of CO2, sulfur and radionuclides burning coal - oh and find a place for the ash

2. use relatively clean nuclear power, find place for nasty waste 2000 feet under the desert...

3. use relatively clean nuclear power, let waste sit in rusty barrels in major metropolitan areas. (but yay you saved that remote desert mountain)

4. don't produce power and let zombie anarchy begin..

-G
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