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THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 26 Feb 2017, 09:32:17

"the difference between Summer and Winter CO2 readings should narrow down a lot from where it is now"

Great insight. I hadn't thought of that, but it must be right.

For the continental US, at least, the South just started greening up nearly a month early. I didn't keep track of what was happening elsewhere, but we stayed green here in MN well into November, again, a month or more late. It would only take another extension of a month or so on either side to eliminate winter altogether.

Do you think winter will basically become 'dry season' then?

And how soon do we get to an Eocene-like 'equable climate'?

This model, one of the few to accurately match these conditions, predicts equable conditions at just 560 ppm CO2. We're already near 500 ppm CO2equivalent, so maybe the flip could indeed happen within a decade or two?
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sun 26 Feb 2017, 14:07:07

dohboi wrote:"the difference between Summer and Winter CO2 readings should narrow down a lot from where it is now"

Great insight. I hadn't thought of that, but it must be right.

For the continental US, at least, the South just started greening up nearly a month early. I didn't keep track of what was happening elsewhere, but we stayed green here in MN well into November, again, a month or more late. It would only take another extension of a month or so on either side to eliminate winter altogether.

Do you think winter will basically become 'dry season' then?

And how soon do we get to an Eocene-like 'equable climate'?

This model, one of the few to accurately match these conditions, predicts equable conditions at just 560 ppm CO2. We're already near 500 ppm CO2equivalent, so maybe the flip could indeed happen within a decade or two?



My understanding is most places with wet and dry seasons have wet in autumn/winter/spring and dry in summer or summer/fall. The dry season has virtually no rain, spring and fall have so e rainy days and some sunny days and winter has frequent rain.

The reason I used seasons instead of months is Australia seasons are reverse of North America seasons by months, but the weather effects are mostly similar.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 26 Feb 2017, 21:39:06


Week beginning on February 19, 2017: 406.91 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 404.40 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 384.48 ppm
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby M_B_S » Mon 27 Feb 2017, 03:41:52

Thx Tanada for the update

Exponential growth is still @ work.

Rate ~1,01^t so in 13 years ~ 463ppm CO2 in 87 years 967 ppm CO2 = Climate Armageddon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UatUDnFmNTY
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 27 Feb 2017, 17:01:31

CO2 went up more in 2016 then in any prior year---the rate of CO2 emission is accelerating

accelerating-growth-in-co2-levels-in-the-atmosphere

The planet, and especially the Arctic, have now warmed enough that CO2 emissions now seem to be coming from soil, permafrost, etc. along with human CO2 emissions, and contributing to the CO2 buildup in the atmosphere.

Cheers!

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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:25:32

March 02: 406.12 ppm
March 01: 406.76 ppm
February 28: 407.61 ppm
February 27: 407.51 ppm
February 26: 408.58 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby ritter » Fri 03 Mar 2017, 18:21:00

Up we go. Thanks, Tanada.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 05 Mar 2017, 14:00:34


Week beginning on February 26, 2017: 407.37 ppm
Weekly value from 1 year ago: 404.08 ppm
Weekly value from 10 years ago: 384.04 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 05 Mar 2017, 14:01:19

March 04: 407.46 ppm
March 03: 407.52 ppm
March 02: 406.12 ppm
March 01: 406.76 ppm
February 28: 407.61 ppm
I should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, write, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, pitch manure, program a computer, cook, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 05 Mar 2017, 21:01:34

Sooo, back to ~3.3 ppm increases
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 10 Mar 2017, 18:39:09

Not sure where to put this. CO2 of course is almost certainly the ultimate driver of these apparent disruptions.

This from a poster at neven's site. Basic atmospheric boundaries seem to be breaking down:

Anyone think that the Atmospheres circulations are looking strange? :o

I'm interested that at all levels from 1km right up to thirty km the circulations seem to be stacking quite neatly above each other. ???

Has the troposphere/ stratosphere boundary lifted? The decrease in temp with altitude seems to be now continuing to between 18 km and 30 km darn near everywhere. Is there even a distinction between them anymore? :-\

The ferocious planetwide mixing that seems to be establishing, particularly from 700 hPa 3km, right up to 10hPa, 32km has regions at both the poles only 25c below equatorial temps at the 3km altitude, and very close planetwide above that. A little warmer above the poles than the equator at 18km in fact.

I've been watching this closely over the past few days. Not an expert in this. Is it far from normal? Seems major changes are occurring almost daily.

temp s pole -45.8, n pole -51.6, Eq -45.9 at 32km: 10 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 61,-82.453

temp s pole -47.3, n pole -64.6, Eq -78.9 at 18.5km: 70 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 61,-82.453

temp s pole -48, n pole -57.9, Eq -41.4 at 10km: 250 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -40.4, n pole -37.6, Eq -5.3 at 5.5km: 500 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -41.3, n pole -25.4, Eq 10.4 at 3km: 700 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -32.6, n pole -20.6, Eq 17.8 at 1.5km: 850 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -25, n pole -31.1, Eq 27.2 at 100m: 1000 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... .954,0.248
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 10 Mar 2017, 21:12:59

I was hoping these numbers would be resolved before I needed to post them, alas tomorrow will only display March 06-10 so to capture the fact we have no number for 05 it had to be posted tonight.


March 09: 405.65 ppm
March 08: 406.56 ppm
March 07: Unavailable
March 06: Unavailable
March 05: Unavailable
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 10 Mar 2017, 21:23:44

dohboi wrote:Not sure where to put this. CO2 of course is almost certainly the ultimate driver of these apparent disruptions.

This from a poster at neven's site. Basic atmospheric boundaries seem to be breaking down:

Anyone think that the Atmospheres circulations are looking strange? :o

I'm interested that at all levels from 1km right up to thirty km the circulations seem to be stacking quite neatly above each other. ???

Has the troposphere/ stratosphere boundary lifted? The decrease in temp with altitude seems to be now continuing to between 18 km and 30 km darn near everywhere. Is there even a distinction between them anymore? :-\

The ferocious planetwide mixing that seems to be establishing, particularly from 700 hPa 3km, right up to 10hPa, 32km has regions at both the poles only 25c below equatorial temps at the 3km altitude, and very close planetwide above that. A little warmer above the poles than the equator at 18km in fact.

I've been watching this closely over the past few days. Not an expert in this. Is it far from normal? Seems major changes are occurring almost daily.

temp s pole -45.8, n pole -51.6, Eq -45.9 at 32km: 10 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 61,-82.453

temp s pole -47.3, n pole -64.6, Eq -78.9 at 18.5km: 70 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 61,-82.453

temp s pole -48, n pole -57.9, Eq -41.4 at 10km: 250 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -40.4, n pole -37.6, Eq -5.3 at 5.5km: 500 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -41.3, n pole -25.4, Eq 10.4 at 3km: 700 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -32.6, n pole -20.6, Eq 17.8 at 1.5km: 850 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... 25,-87.117

temp s pole -25, n pole -31.1, Eq 27.2 at 100m: 1000 hPa
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/w ... .954,0.248



I am not an atmospheric scientist but I will point out the two factors I believe you are seeing in the data. All of the locations you put links far are in the far polar region.

First factor, the Tropopause aka the freeze trap between the Troposphere and Stratosphere exists because the Stratosphere contains almost all of the Ozone in the entire atmosphere. O3 aka Ozone is a GHG that absorbs certain frequencies of ultraviolet light, then vibrates transmitting that energy to surrounding molecules via kinetic contact and via infra red photons that warm the upper stratosphere "when it is in sunlight". During polar winter that ozone layer is not getting any energy input from ultraviolet sunlight so like everything else in the dark it cools down a lot. As a result the temperature gradients in the polar atmosphere in winter are a great deal more diffuse that they are in the tropic and temperate zones.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 06:40:33

Thanks, T
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 08:47:32


February 2017: 406.42 ppm
February 2016: 404.04 ppm
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 14:00:58

Should we be relieved the increase rate is back down under 3 ppm a year?
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 14:49:11

Subjectivist wrote:Should we be relieved the increase rate is back down under 3 ppm a year?


Since the estimated toxic level of atmospheric CO2 under lifetime exposure is 426 ppm, there remains cause for serious concern.

In fact, at current levels, one should spend as little time inside buildings as possible.

It's no wonder the masses appear mentally impaired, it's because they are, due to high CO2 levels in buildings and the amount of time they spend there.

Health effects of increase in concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere


Chronic Respiratory Carbon Dioxide Toxicity: a serious unapprehended health risk of climate change
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 15:57:24, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 15:53:20

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/carb ... -ppm-21223

Carbon Dioxide Could Reach 410 PPM This Month

...If carbon pollution continues on its current trend, it’s likely to pass 450 ppm in the next two decades. That will send temperatures spiraling ever higher and further destabilize the climate...
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 11 Mar 2017, 17:38:35

The earth’s atmosphere has already reached CO2 levels that are outside the range breathed by humans throughout their evolution. As well, in earlier pre-primate epochs, elevated atmospheric CO2 has been found to be a cause of mass extinction events (Knoll et al. 1996)

Despite significant documentation of health issues due to CO2 in indoor environments, there is minimal awareness in the community. For spacecraft and submarines there are practical considerations that influence the recommended safe levels. Initial safe limits for the International Space Station were partly decided by engineering requirements (Cronyn et al. 2012) and submarine limits were balanced by the ability to surface and renew air quality. It seems that there has been little concern about low-level toxicity of CO2 because we have always had the back-up of an ambient atmosphere with low levels of CO2.

As mentioned previously the body compensates for high levels of CO2, through a combination of increased breathing, blood pH buffering, kidney and bone adaptations depending on the length of continuous exposure, until we can resume breathing lower levels of CO2.

One author suggests that blood pH would be reduced to dangerous levels, if there were no physiological compensation, at CO2 levels as low as about 430 ppm (Robertson 2006) implying that compensation would occur at this level. Ambient conditions may already be dangerously close to CO2 levels that will induce continuous body compensation. Moreover, there is strong evidence that, with chronic activity, compensation mechanisms can produce serious health issues such as kidney calcification and bone loss.

It is conceivable that these problems might appear at much lower levels of CO2 if compensation persisted for a much longer periods, for example living a whole lifetime in an elevated CO2 atmosphere of a climate changed future. In the final paper of the US Navy CO2 research program, Schaefer (1982) indicated that this issue had “become the concern of the Department of Energy and other US government agencies” although it appears to have been largely forgotten (or classified) since.

If allowed to persist, problems such as kidney calcification could lead to renal failure. In the extreme case lifespans could become shorter than the time required to reach reproductive age. This could threaten the viability of human and animal species without interventions such as the creation of artificial living environments.

The human species is already impaired in indoor environments and this is likely to get worse as rising outdoor levels of CO2 contribute to increased indoor concentrations. Furthermore, the incidence and prevalence of human kidney calcification (i.e. stones) is increasing globally with the rate highest for males (Romero et al. 2010). Although this may not be related, it is possible that rising office levels of CO2 is a contributing cause. As well there is evidence that CO2 toxicity contributes to a range of serious health issues including cancer, neurological diseases and sleep disorders, and is being experienced by individuals at the current ambient levels which are now 40% higher than pre-industrial levels. It seems likely that CO2 toxicity related to human-induced climate change is already having an unrecognised impact on population health.

From the evidence presented here, there appears to be current health impacts of rising CO2 levels and a significant risk of serious health issues arising in the human population at some time in this century.

This means that most humans could at this time be experiencing persistent body compensation for acidosis effects resulting in serious health problems. The risk for human and animal population health in the near-future is extremely high and should be communicated since global awareness of this issue may enable a change in CO2 emission activities.

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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Tanada » Wed 15 Mar 2017, 11:42:55

Data for this month is turning into more unavailables than actual readings.

March 14: Unavailable
March 13: 407.11 ppm
March 12: 406.82 ppm
March 11: Unavailable
March 10: Unavailable
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