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THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 23:12:53

Nov. 26 2016 CO2 – 405.40
Nov 26 2015 CO2 – 400.79

https://www.co2.earth

403.98 for week of Nov 20th 2016
400.30 for same week last year
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dissident » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 23:28:46

dohboi wrote:Nov. 26 2016 CO2 – 405.40
Nov 26 2015 CO2 – 400.79

https://www.co2.earth

403.98 for week of Nov 20th 2016
400.30 for same week last year


So 1% increase in one year. No indication of any reduction in the rate of emission of CO2 and other gases that induce more CO2 in the atmosphere in spite of all the talk about how the GDP is supposedly becoming less and less energy intense and the role of oil in the economy is less and less important. So even with all this structural transformation of the GDP, the greenhouse gas emissions keep cranking.

440+ ppmv CO2 in 10 years
490+ ppmv CO2 in 20 years.

So we will be at over 600 ppmv CO2 equivalent by 2036. Most climate model scenarios have put forth 600 ppmv as being reached in 2100. The current trajectory is beyond the worst one anticipated by IPCC AR4 and even AR5. The temperature trajectory will also be worse than the worst expected. It is likely we will see an addition 1 C of warming before 2050. Consider what the first 1 C has brought us already.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 27 Nov 2016, 23:56:09

For those of you who may think dis is overstating his case--he's not.

In fact, he is just talking about the increase in human emissions.

Carbon feedbacks are starting to kick in, and they will do so with greater and greater intensity going forward, likely far exceeding a 1% per year increase in atmospheric CO2 levels. (Even if by some miracle some unknown unknown comes along and saves us from cid's clathrate apocalypse!)
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby kiwichick » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 00:07:26

Guy McPherson is currently in New Zealand on a speaking tour.....the headline in the press being "Human Extinction within 10 years " or words to that effect......the vast majority of the comments are derogatory or hate speak

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/8677 ... n-10-years


I just hope he is wrong ....but worry he could be somewhere in the ballpark
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 08:12:19

He gets a lot of things wrong, but the basic point--that we could see very rapid warming, and it could have much worse consequences in the relatively short term than nearly anyone is talking about--is worth having in the discussion.

But to the extent that his statements give people permission to live as high carbon a lifestyle as they want to because it all over anyway...they are doing a disservice to the living planet.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Subjectivist » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 14:02:15

dohboi wrote:He gets a lot of things wrong, but the basic point--that we could see very rapid warming, and it could have much worse consequences in the relatively short term than nearly anyone is talking about--is worth having in the discussion.

But to the extent that his statements give people permission to live as high carbon a lifestyle as they want to because it all over anyway...they are doing a disservice to the living planet.


Eh. If its really all over then those hedonists who live by "EAT DRINK AND BE MERRY, TOMORROW WE DIE!" Start to look smart and those of us saving for the future look foolish.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 14:16:16

I guess that depends on your sense of ethics.

The living world is an old grandma who we've been kicking in the face for years.

Some of use prefer to at least lessen the rate of kicking, or put on softer shoes, even though the old gal is now already Cheyne-Stoking.

Others prefer to don steel toed boots to continue their assault, just 'cause it's more fun.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 14:48:34

Atmospheric CO2 rise has leveled out at the same time planetary plant growth has spurted.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cog » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 15:34:08

dohboi wrote:I guess that depends on your sense of ethics.

The living world is an old grandma who we've been kicking in the face for years.

Some of use prefer to at least lessen the rate of kicking, or put on softer shoes, even though the old gal is now already Cheyne-Stoking.

Others prefer to don steel toed boots to continue their assault, just 'cause it's more fun.


There is no such thing as Gaia no matter how much you want to personalize a rocky ball in space.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:00:23

Cog wrote:
dohboi wrote:I guess that depends on your sense of ethics.

The living world is an old grandma who we've been kicking in the face for years.

Some of use prefer to at least lessen the rate of kicking, or put on softer shoes, even though the old gal is now already Cheyne-Stoking.

Others prefer to don steel toed boots to continue their assault, just 'cause it's more fun.


There is no such thing as Gaia no matter how much you want to personalize a rocky ball in space.

Not to distract from either of your partisan (cog and doh) agendas, but yes Gaia is a real thing, supported by science that is over all our heads. Suffice it to say:
The Gaia hypothesis, also known as Gaia theory or Gaia principle, proposes that organisms interact with their inorganic surroundings on Earth to form a synergistic self-regulating, complex system that helps to maintain and perpetuate the conditions for life on the planet. Topics of interest include how the biosphere and the evolution of life forms affect the stability of global temperature, ocean salinity, oxygen in the atmosphere, the maintenance of a hydrosphere of liquid water and other environmental variables that affect the habitability of Earth.

The Gaia proposition suggests:
A) that ecologic forces not understood or appreciated by climate scientists will continue to regulate atmospheric gases at a somewhat homeostatic level. See Global Greening, fertilization and rapid plant growth by recently-released CO2, rock-phosphate, nitrogen/sulfur oxides etc.
B) Gaia might not be so happy with humans of either ilk. She likes life, but not necessarily human life.
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:07:55

Cog, peabrain is grasping at straws. As his desperation grows his journeys into the tinfoil zone will grow deeper.

See he's grasping at the myth of a homeostatic earth. Wondered what all that greening crap was about.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:10:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:09:55

Cid_Yama wrote:Cog, peabrain is grasping at straws. As his desperation grows his journeys into the tinfoil zone will grow deeper.

Hey Cid, better check you own straws. Two partisan do not make a debate. Just additional screaming and yapping.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:11:50

Your greening crap has already been debunked. Homeostatic Earth was debunked years ago. :roll:
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:23:53

Cid_Yama wrote:Your greening crap has already been debunked. Homeostatic Earth was debunked years ago. :roll:

Go argue with NASA and James Lovelock. You have it wrong on all counts.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 16:47:27

The Lead Author of the paper you posted about greening, himself came forward and said the deniers were misrepresenting his paper, and other scientists from the study said any greening was just temporary and the plants would soon become a carbon source far outweighing any benefits of the greening.

We already had this discussion and I presented documentation of the authors own words.

But you are now choosing to pretend it didn't happen.

Any greening is in areas that had lacked rainfall in the past, but were now benefiting from the storm tracks moving north. Those storm tracks will continue moving north leaving those areas once more dry.

Time for you to stop with the disinformation that you have already been corrected on.

I know you got all confused and started shouting that the lead Author of the paper was somehow being paid to say his paper didn't say what you wanted it to say. A very sorry and pathetic sight that was.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 17:13:15

The lead author, one of 20+ scientists made a politically-charged off the cuff comment. It in no way challenges the conclusions of the study as published and peer-reviewed.

He probably said for his kids? You know, the wife, and school politics the way they are. He don't want the kid marginalized saying what Daddy is doing. Kids can be cruel.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 17:40:13

LOL - how pathetic. You want to do this all over again? I've got the time and the previous posts exist on here.

It's as simple as

Increased growth of plants fertilised by higher CO2 levels is only partly offsetting emissions and will not halt dangerous warming, scientists conclude
More plants have been growing due to higher CO2 levels in the air and warming temperatures that cut the CO2 emitted by plants via respiration. The effects led the proportion of annual carbon emissions remaining in the air to fall from about 50% to 40% in the last decade.

However, this greening is only offsetting a small amount of the billions of tonnes of CO2 emitted from fossil fuel burning and other human activities and will not halt dangerous global warming. “Unfortunately, this increase is nowhere near enough to stop climate change,” said Dr Trevor Keenan, at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in the US, who led the new work.

The absolute level of CO2 in the atmosphere is continuing to rise, breaking the milestone of 400 parts per million (ppm) in 2015, and rising temperatures continue to surpass records.

It has been unclear whether the fertilisation effect of higher CO2 levels for plants is outweighed by the harm caused to them by warming and droughts.

The researchers found that between 1960 and 2000 the rise of CO2 in the atmosphere was increasing every year, but that after 2000 the rate slowed to about the same increase every year. They found that the main factor was the higher CO2 levels, which were just 290ppm at the start of the last century, compared to 400ppm today.

“The researchers make it clear that this effect is almost certainly temporary. The ‘greening’ effect of CO2 will ultimately be overwhelmed by the plants’ own respiration and decay, which will cause even more CO2 to be released.”

link


It is posted in the Letters section of Nature Climate Change. It is therefore NOT peer reviewed, but that's not an issue here.

All it says is, according to their model, CO2 fertilization is causing more plant growth.

Duh. Certainly not ground breaking or game changing.

“The researchers make it clear that this effect is almost certainly temporary. The ‘greening’ effect of CO2 will ultimately be overwhelmed by the plants’ own respiration and decay, which will cause even more CO2 to be released.”
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby pstarr » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 18:40:14

Cid_Yama wrote:It is posted in the Letters section of Nature Climate Change. It is therefore NOT peer reviewed, but that's not an issue here.

If you understood the scientific process, you would be most impugned to agree that it is the issue.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 28 Nov 2016, 23:14:02

As you have pointed out, cid, baby p has gone into full troll mode on these threads, at least.

No use responding to or even looking at pretty much he has to say around here any more.

Pity, really.
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Re: THE Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Thread Pt. 6

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 30 Nov 2016, 15:07:24

Image

I know we're not supposed to look at hourly data, but wow! Some up in the 410 range! Probably weather related, of course, or someone smoking to close to the monitors!!??

(When is T gonna come back to keep us abreast of the latest numbers and give us historical perspective? Otherwise, we're just left with wild-eyed hairbrained me! :lol: :lol: )
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