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THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 08:47:22

Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, control corporations, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 10:35:09

Cog wrote:Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, control corporations, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.


If corporations and the wealthy would control themselves and act less parasitically, government controls wouldn't be necessary. They don't, and a list of examples is too long to bother with. Corporations aren't 'people' and have no soul or conscience. They are purely sociopathical, as are those who worship corporate control and dominance.

Corporations eat their young.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 10:39:18

ralfy wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: Yes just like the assembly line workers wages and taxes were passed on in the value of a '57 chevy only the displaced worker won't have to commute to work or purchase day care for his children so the support level needed will be less.


Most family expenditures do not involve day care.

Do you have a source for that?
My experience is that a middle class mother works about half ofthe available work days from the birth of her first child until the youngest enters highschool. That envolves a lot of daycare.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 14:01:47

GHung wrote:
Cog wrote:Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, control corporations, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.


If corporations and the wealthy would control themselves and act less parasitically, government controls wouldn't be necessary. They don't, and a list of examples is too long to bother with. Corporations aren't 'people' and have no soul or conscience. They are purely sociopathical, as are those who worship corporate control and dominance.

Corporations eat their young.


You want someone to sooth your tortured soul? Go talk to a priest or pastor. A corporation was not designed to sooth your feelings. It was designed to make money. I'm quite happy they do it because I have benefitted from it my entire life. So have you, unless you are on the dole. Which by your comments, seems extremely likely.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 14:24:43

Cog wrote:
GHung wrote:
Cog wrote:Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, control corporations, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.


If corporations and the wealthy would control themselves and act less parasitically, government controls wouldn't be necessary. They don't, and a list of examples is too long to bother with. Corporations aren't 'people' and have no soul or conscience. They are purely sociopathical, as are those who worship corporate control and dominance.

Corporations eat their young.


You want someone to sooth your tortured soul? Go talk to a priest or pastor. A corporation was not designed to sooth your feelings. It was designed to make money. I'm quite happy they do it because I have benefitted from it my entire life. So have you, unless you are on the dole. Which by your comments, seems extremely likely.


Yet another strange and childish response from one bent on declaring his socio-apathy and lack of character to whomever may pay attention.

Know this: My soul is not tortured, even as your's seems to be. Enjoy your silly faux wealth.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 14:32:55

Faux wealth? Today (before the great power down, aka the crash) you can use it to buy food, energy, electronics, and the attentions of females. That is about as real as it gets. The only rub is figuring out what will still be worth owning after the crash.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 15:04:01

KaiserJeep wrote:Faux wealth? Today (before the great power down, aka the crash) you can use it to buy food, energy, electronics, and the attentions of females. That is about as real as it gets. The only rub is figuring out what will still be worth owning after the crash.

When the mirage of wealth finally cracks, you will see how much the faux wealth is worth. You will be lucky if your money ie. wealth buys you a loaf of bread :razz:
See Zimbabwe hyperinflation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperin ... n_Zimbabwe
You can ignore reality but not its consequences
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 16:08:51

onlooker wrote:
KaiserJeep wrote:Faux wealth? Today (before the great power down, aka the crash) you can use it to buy food, energy, electronics, and the attentions of females. That is about as real as it gets. The only rub is figuring out what will still be worth owning after the crash.

When the mirage of wealth finally cracks, you will see how much the faux wealth is worth. You will be lucky if your money ie. wealth buys you a loaf of bread :razz:
See Zimbabwe hyperinflation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperin ... n_Zimbabwe


Your lack of prior planning, in the financial sense, doesn't create an emergency for me.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 16:13:22

So pray if you care Cog, tell us in what or where you have your wealth?
Oh that"s right in the ultimate Ponzifaux source, the stock market. Enough said
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 16:36:00

Cog wrote:Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.


Didn’t say it was an error. Just pointing out the thought process; Capitalisim/consumerism is holy.
Communisim is evil.

To a believer.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 19:52:16

Newfie wrote:
Cog wrote:Redistribution of wealth, capital controls, etc are in fact what communists do. So its not an error to call them what they are.


Didn’t say it was an error. Just pointing out the thought process; Capitalisim/consumerism is holy.
Communisim is evil.

To a believer.
Communism is not evil by itself just ineffective. But often the leaders that have taken over countries while preaching communism to the masses to get their support have turned out to be truly evil and failed to even try to deliver the equality that communist doctrine promises.
The same can be said about many capitalist leaders so the observer must separate the system from the practitioner.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 20:27:18

VT,
But you are not a true adherent to the religion. If you were your attitude would be different. You are looking for reason and shades of grey. Zealotry decries such nuances.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 06 Dec 2017, 20:59:26

Newfie wrote:VT,
But you are not a true adherent to the religion. If you were your attitude would be different. You are looking for reason and shades of grey. Zealotry decries such nuances.

I try not to be religious about anything including peak oil. I do think Capitalism will always win out in the end as it uses human nature in a positive way. Communism on the other hand denies human nature and tries to reward laziness equally with earnest effort.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 02:39:04

vtsnowedin wrote:Do you have a source for that?
My experience is that a middle class mother works about half ofthe available work days from the birth of her first child until the youngest enters highschool. That envolves a lot of daycare.


The ave. income for most of the world is less than $10 daily.

Day care? Most are lucky if they can buy enough food and other necessities!
http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 02:54:41

It would be helpful if you identified whether you are discussing the world average Middle Class family or one in the USA. There is a range of incomes considered Middle Class.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 08:00:04

onlooker wrote:So pray if you care Cog, tell us in what or where you have your wealth?
Oh that"s right in the ultimate Ponzifaux source, the stock market. Enough said


Because that is where the real money in the world resides. Its not in your piggy bank or the coins in your couch or even in real estate. The real money of the world resides in the equity markets. You are either in or you are out. The market makers can make the market move up or down or sideways. I am not one of them but sometimes I'm lucky enough to figure out trends. As KJ says, this is real money we are talking about. Perhaps the most real money there is IMO.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 08:19:24

ralfy wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Do you have a source for that?
My experience is that a middle class mother works about half ofthe available work days from the birth of her first child until the youngest enters highschool. That envolves a lot of daycare.


The ave. income for most of the world is less than $10 daily.

Day care? Most are lucky if they can buy enough food and other necessities!

Really Ralfy? When I'm talking about 57 chevy assembly lines being over taken by robots and day care you want to throw in statistics for Zimbabwe?
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 09:07:21

vtsnowedin wrote:
Newfie wrote:VT,
But you are not a true adherent to the religion. If you were your attitude would be different. You are looking for reason and shades of grey. Zealotry decries such nuances.

I try not to be religious about anything including peak oil. I do think Capitalism will always win out in the end as it uses human nature in a positive way. Communism on the other hand denies human nature and tries to reward laziness equally with earnest effort.


I tend to agree. It’s not always to our best advantage.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Newfie » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 09:13:51

Cog wrote:
onlooker wrote:So pray if you care Cog, tell us in what or where you have your wealth?
Oh that"s right in the ultimate Ponzifaux source, the stock market. Enough said


Because that is where the real money in the world resides. Its not in your piggy bank or the coins in your couch or even in real estate. The real money of the world resides in the equity markets. You are either in or you are out. The market makers can make the market move up or down or sideways. I am not one of them but sometimes I'm lucky enough to figure out trends. As KJ says, this is real money we are talking about. Perhaps the most real money there is IMO.


I think the concept of “real money” is quite debatable. Market valuation, for most folks, is just what the malarkey reports, which is based upon the last sale. It’s decidedly NOT a valuation of the corporations assets.

Think of it like food. Some guy A, living in a town of 1,000 souls, has a million pounds of rice in his safe. Guy B decides he wants some rice so pays A 10 for a pound of rice. That does not mean A is worth 10 million dollars. If A wanted to liquidate his assets he would have to convience every person in town to take 1,000 pounds of rice.

The stock market is a lot like that.

Of course it’s more complicated, just trying to illustrate why so much of our wealth gap is really just “virtual wealth.” Perhaps the greatest example are bit coins.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 07 Dec 2017, 12:15:20

You know, as well as I do,that your 401k, IRA, and even your pension is tied to the market. Its as real as it gets for you personally. The elites, who are universally despised, won't let their asset be destroyed in any meaningful way. Oh there will be market downturns, recessions and even depressions, but the market remains. Downturns are the way for the elites to gain even more shares. If you study them and what they do, you can go along for the ride.
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