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THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 16:50:09

Inequality in capitalism is a feature not a bug.



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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 17:07:47

Cog wrote:Inequality in capitalism is a feature not a bug.



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Fat fascist pig IS A BUG. Needs to be squashed.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 17:57:33

GHung wrote:
Cog wrote:Inequality in capitalism is a feature not a bug.

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Fat fascist pig IS A BUG. Needs to be squashed.

Because socalists are never fat? Or fascist? :roll:

Or liberals are never fat? Or fascist?

Or anyone else?

Or you just think that the police have no authority to, for example, defend private property rights? How about when it's YOUR property?
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 18:09:11

Don't worry Ghung, we will continue putting the Drug addicts in jail. Not treat their addiction and make them better and more hardened criminals in jail and more unstable to boot. Then let them out in a few years cause that is how we are making society safer and winning the War on Drugs. That is the bull our Conservative friends want us to believe haha
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 18:48:43

Want to use drugs and kill yourself with them, you have my permission. You want to be a drug addict and steal to support your addiction? I don't want you in jail, I want you executed.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:15:20

Outcast_Searcher wrote:
GHung wrote:
Cog wrote:Inequality in capitalism is a feature not a bug.

Image


Fat fascist pig IS A BUG. Needs to be squashed.

Because socalists are never fat? Or fascist? :roll:

Or liberals are never fat? Or fascist?

Or anyone else?

Or you just think that the police have no authority to, for example, defend private property rights? How about when it's YOUR property?


This wasn't private property. It was a sit-down protest on a public college campus (UC Davis).
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:41:33

They were blocking the free passage of others who wanted nothing to do with their temper tantrum. Want to protest, there is some grass over there, go sit down there. You know, like a normal person not a spoiled brat would do.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:45:55

Yea, like they look so threatening. At least with BLM, some carry a threatening aura. But here well the picture is quite clear
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:52:24

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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:53:42

ralfy wrote:Image

:lol: :lol:
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby ralfy » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 19:54:38

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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Thu 30 Nov 2017, 20:03:58

Jealousy is such a corrosive emotion. Get back to work.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby baha » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 05:54:09

Cog wrote:Jealousy is such a corrosive emotion. Get back to work.


Here is the attitude of our society. It's not just salaries, it's a lack of respect, understanding, and empathy. "I am better than you, you have no right to be my equal, get back to work."

There is a real problem with wealth inequality in this country. Like DB said in another thread, we are so ingrained with capitalism we can't even see the problems. When someone works hard all day and then can't even feed and house their kids it causes resentment. People are pissed and unfulfilled, so they pee in the Ice Tea at Arby's.

People in their $50k cars drive by the window, look down on them, and bitch at them about their incompetence. Totally oblivious to the fact that these folks just cooked them dinner. In my mama's house you thanked the cook and asked to be excused.

Again, it is all the love of money. If I drive a $50k car and you drive an old toyota, I am better than you...wrong, you are just richer, there's a difference.

Our capitalist society has created the ignorant/resentful people that we all bitch about.

China is doing many things right. Education is easily available there and they are at the front of future technology. I have worked and studied with Chinese folks and these people are smart and motivated. Their genes are the same as ours but they have better opportunities and support. The Chinese make most of the solar equipment on earth, have several companies building electric cars, and are building the next generation of nuke plants. They have a problem with population but at least they give people's brains a chance. Before they send them off to flip burgers.

To say someone won't work to improve their life unless you pay them more is pointing out our worship of money. That is the only thing we have to offer. It's sad really that everything in this country is measured with fiat money instead of intrinsic value.

All people are valuable. Until we realize that and start treating all people with respect we will continue to fall apart. And unfortunately in our society money is the only form of respect we have :(
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 08:01:48

baha wrote:-snip-

Our capitalist society has created the ignorant/resentful people that we all bitch about.

China is doing many things right. Education is easily available there and they are at the front of future technology. I have worked and studied with Chinese folks and these people are smart and motivated. Their genes are the same as ours but they have better opportunities and support. The Chinese make most of the solar equipment on earth, have several companies building electric cars, and are building the next generation of nuke plants. They have a problem with population but at least they give people's brains a chance. Before they send them off to flip burgers.

To say someone won't work to improve their life unless you pay them more is pointing out our worship of money. That is the only thing we have to offer. It's sad really that everything in this country is measured with fiat money instead of intrinsic value.

All people are valuable. Until we realize that and start treating all people with respect we will continue to fall apart. And unfortunately in our society money is the only form of respect we have :(


The Chinese do not value people. Anything but. In the 1960's, Mao Zedong starved dissident provinces back into line with a planned famine. The USA's CIA estimates that something on the close order of 60 million people perished in this famine, which puts the Red Chinese Communist Chairman Mao's record for genocide around 4X that set by Hitler and the Nazi's in WW2. The Chinese also had a "one child" policy imposed upon them by the Communists. Perhaps you think of this as a good thing - but did you ever think about how it is implemented? A woman and her husband are permitted one child, and so many favor boys (for quite selfish reasons related to unequal pay for the sexes and the ability to care for elderly parents) that an estimated 30 million more men than women exist in China today - because their parents aborted females and concieved males. If a female gets pregnant a second time, she has a forced partial-birth abortion. Drugs are administered to induce labor, and when the child's head "crowns", it is injected with a lethal dose of formaldehyde, to insure that it is delivered dead. That is infanticide, the murder of babies.

Mao himself favored one traditional Chinese practice, which says that a male who takes the virginity of a young female is rewarded with virility and long life - resulting in hundreds of 12-year-old girls being forced to share his bed. These are the people and the form of government that you hold up as morally and actually superior.

baha, in case you did not know this, in the 1990's the USA's Silicon Valley was tasked by Bill Clinton with developing the Chinese electronics industry, in return for monies that they donated to the Clinton Foundation, later used by Hillary Rodham Clinton in an attempt to become POTUS. The then-present tech of 6" and 8" silicon wafer fabrication machinery was shipped to China and these wafer fab lines form the basis of the monocrystaline wafers that the Chinese use to monopoplize the solar market. They are literally dumping solar panels below manufacturing cost in the rest of the world, because the USA provided the costly silicon fab capital machinery, the present low price of their panels is artificial and temporary. Here in Silicon Vally we moved to 10" and 12" diameter wafers, in the silicon chip generation that enabled mobile devices.

The second most successful alternative to Capitalism according to most folks here was the USSR, right up until it collapsed in the early 1990's. Need I point out that they were attempting to snuff out Capitalism by condemming millions of their own less-than-ideologically-pure citizens to Siberian Gulags?

Here in the USA meanwhile, we have more Middle Class citizens who have a net worth of more than $1M than the next eight Western style democracies combined. I happen to be one of those people, and I did not cheat, steal, or lie to get where I am. I had a lower-middle-class background on both sides. My Father actually slipped to the status of homeless person when his family's Oklahoma farm blew away in the Dust Bowl of the 1930's, he started living in an old black Ford sedan, a migrant farm worker. My Mother was born and raised on a dairy farm in Arkansas, a place with no elecricity, no phone, and no hope. She joined the US Army during the Korean War as a clerk/typist (think Radar O'Reilly on M.A.S.H.).

I myself was the oldest of six kids, and my Father worked as a USCG Chief, then a Warrant Officer, and I grew up on military bases all over the USA and Guam, pretty much hating it. At age 26, following my own hitch in the USCG, I got a BSEE using student loans (all paid off) and the original GI Bill. Then I worked for 37+ years, paying for undergraduate degrees for my wife and kid so that they too were able to earn money. At some point I paid off the mortgage on the home I am in now, and that home's value plus my retirement account surpassed the $1M mark before I retired - I earned the money, I didn't steal it. I did get to design a critical part of the internet that counts money, but one that few consumers ever see or even know about.

That is what Capitalism is, a system that has brought more prosperity and wealth to more people than any other, while the devotees of Marx and Engels slaughtered one another by the millions. I'm not saying that luck hasn't got a part in this, just that hard work and good behavior are rewarded with prosperity. My own values include honesty and hard work and never ever defaulting on a debt. I earned my own prosperity in the greatest country on Earth with the greatest economic system, Capitalism.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 08:22:28

All people are valuable. Until we realize that and start treating all people with respect we will continue to fall apart. And unfortunately in our society money is the only form of respect we have 

So true. Money has come to dominate our value system and consequently subordinated all other considerations and values. This is consistent with our primate inclinations. So hopefully, Kaiser you are not just right about that but of the ability for a small number of us to leave this planet and evolve beyond that.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 08:45:49

The discussion here revolves around the belief that if you work hard you deserve something. You don't deserve anything except what you can negotiate with your employer. Failing that there is another inclination of the social progressives. To use the force of government to give to those who feel they deserve something by taking from those who actually obtained it.

Hard work is valuable because it shows you have some form of work ethic. Smart work is using that work ethic to advance yourself so you are compensated for it. Its called paying your dues. I did it and so did a lot of successful people. If you are still flipping burgers after five years of doing so, you are either lazy or incompetent at it. You should be either an assistant or full time manager at that burger joint by that time. Now if you want to put in a minimal effort, punch the clock, do just enough work not to get fired, you can deal with being stuck where you are.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 09:10:30

Cog, nobody here is denigrating the value of hard work. It is a virtuous ethic.
However, this conversation runs deeper than that. It is about a trajectory our species has taken in which we have commodified everthing. And where we have become overly materialistic beings. This is been greatly accentuated by having had access to such a rich source of energy in the form of fossil fuels.

And so, we embarked on creating this huge world wide civilization upon the foundations of what one can loosely term Capitalism. By this I mean, the establishmentof private property, a currency, a profit incentive and a host of bylaws that stipulate the contractual basis of commerce and trade. And also the issuance of Debt via fiat money. All this has served to enrich the already wealthy as they could leverage their wealth into ever more wealth. So, now we have a extremely unjust and unequal world. Where 1 billion or so cannot access sufficient food in a world with sufficient food for everyone and to boot with lots of waste in countries like the US, then something is deeply wrong with this economic sytem. It is rather simple. We are inflexible with regards to the implementation and supremacy of this sytem. So, if you do not have money, you do NOT get access to food, medical service, housing, water etc. This is ubiquitous with minor exceptions. So, I stand by my harsh critique of Capitalism even as I recognize it is a system rather commensurate with our stage in evolution
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby Cog » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 09:15:36

There are those progressive words again just and equal. They have no real meaning unless you intend to take from those that have and give to those who do not. That is your real intention here after all. Take a look at Africa. Plenty of resources but a disaster because they do not employ capitalism as we would understand the word. They have no law except that of the tribal dictator of the moment dictates. As a consequence they suffer. No rule of law and no pretense to have any. But none of that makes it my responsibility, as an American, to fix their problem.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby GHung » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 09:38:45

Cog wrote:There are those progressive words again just and equal. They have no real meaning unless you intend to take from those that have and give to those who do not. That is your real intention here after all. Take a look at Africa. Plenty of resources but a disaster because they do not employ capitalism as we would understand the word. They have no law except that of the tribal dictator of the moment dictates. As a consequence they suffer. No rule of law and no pretense to have any. But none of that makes it my responsibility, as an American, to fix their problem.


A tail of four dogs + 1:

We have a very healthy, happy pack of four dogs, and occasionally keep my daughter's dog who generally gets along very well with our pack, except at feeding time. He's a good boy; a three-legged mutt my daughter rescued. Our oldest dog, a tough little Feist mix we rescued from the roadside many years ago, is now blind and partially deaf, even while he's still happy and living a good life. Our daughter's dog will try and steal his food at feeding time, determined to get more than he needs, but our other three won't have it, and our alpha bitch will growl at my daughter's dog if he won't allow the little dog to eat his fill. They will stand watch, making sure he gets what he needs, loyal and caring for their aging pack mate. In the end, everyone gets fed, but none of these dogs are overfed.

My dogs are better than you, Cog. If I had to choose between dogs like them and people like you, it would be an easy choice.

Don't let those progressives steal your bone.
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Re: THE Capitalism Thread Pt. 4

Unread postby onlooker » Fri 01 Dec 2017, 10:02:42

Nice Ghung. Sharing and caring not competing and stealing haha
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