The Bloom Box: An Energy Breakthrough?

[mos6507]

Yeah...we're "in a jam"....energy costs more than it used to.

That's the only thing you think we have to worry about, shorty? The only thing? Not global warming, ocean acidification, melting icecaps, algae blooms, peak-fish, topsoil loss, GMOs and pesticides, the continent of diffuse junk floating in the pacific, biodiversity loss, deforestation and desertification, depleting aquifers and icepacks, the fragility of monocultures (i.e. wheat rust), smog, industrial pollution, coal heavy-metal pollution, AND (last but not least) peak oil?

I'm sure I've missed a few above. I bet I could fill a couple paragraphs with issues that continue to grace this board. But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Your narrow perspective is pathological.

[timmac]

But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Yea its all great here also, food shelves are full, gas station still has gas and my ATM still puts out cash, what else do we need..

[shortonsense]

Yeah...we're "in a jam"....energy costs more than it used to.

That's the only thing you think we have to worry about, shorty? The only thing?

Well, I've been prepping since the 1979 global peak oil, so I've had quite a bit of time to get ready.

Not global warming, ocean acidification, melting icecaps, algae blooms, peak-fish, topsoil loss, GMOs and pesticides, the continent of diffuse junk floating in the pacific, biodiversity loss, deforestation and desertification, depleting aquifers and icepacks, the fragility of monocultures (i.e. wheat rust), smog, industrial pollution, coal heavy-metal pollution, AND (last but not least) peak oil?

Well, peak oil has certainly been a bust...again.....but some of those others deserve serious consideration. And once the hysteria from all this peak oil stuff dies down, well, humans can do nearly anything as long as they've got the energy. Replumb rivers, rebuild eco-systems, restore species, change bad behavior, you name it. I am a firm believer in clever monkeys, past, present, and future.

I'm sure I've missed a few above. I bet I could fill a couple paragraphs with issues that continue to grace this board. But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Your narrow perspective is pathological.

Betting on human ingenuity, past, present and future, is neither a narrow view, nor pathological. It strikes me as a pretty safe bet, actually. Certainly Malthusian ideas haven't done so well in the past 2 centuries...so I'll go with history on this one.

[shortonsense]

But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Yea its all great here also, food shelves are full, gas station still has gas and my ATM still puts out cash, what else do we need..

I feel ya...PO+5, its all just amazing how things haven't really changed.

[mos6507]

I feel ya...PO+5, its all just amazing how things haven't really changed.

This is one of those classic posts that deserves a bump when TSHTF. Keep chuckling, cornies.

[JJ]

But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Yea its all great here also, food shelves are full, gas station still has gas and my ATM still puts out cash, what else do we need..

I feel ya...PO+5, its all just amazing how things haven't really changed.

what, exactly, hasn't changed? you lost me.

[TheAntiDoomer]

The Future Of Energy? Bloom Energy Boxes Already Power Google, eBay, Others

http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/22/bloom-energy-boxes/

Over the past several years, there’s been no shortage of talk about alternative energy, and its potential to change the world. The problem is that most of it is just that — talk. But tonight, a report that aired on 60 Minutes showed one alternative that is not only real, it’s already being tested by companies such as Google and eBay. You simply have to watch this.

Bloom Energy are producing tiny fuel cell boxes they call “Bloom Boxes.” Two of these can apparently power a U.S. home (and only one for homes in countries that use less power). So how small are they? Look at the picture above, each device isn’t much bigger than a standard brick. Of course, they need to be surrounded by a larger unit that takes in an energy source (such as natural gas). But still, these units look to be about the size of a refrigerator and can easily fit outside of a home, providing it with clean, cheap energy.

Currently, these boxes cost some $700,000-$800,000, but eventually, founder K.R. Sridhar envisions one in every home — and he thinks he can get the cost below $3,000 for a unit to make that happen. And he’s talking a 5 to 10 year timeframe for this.

[TheAntiDoomer]

10 Things to Know About Bloom Energy

http://earth2tech.com/2010/02/21/10-thi ... om-energy/

Eight years and close to $400 million later, ultra-stealthy fuel cell maker Bloom Energy is finally ready to officially launch and ditch its “stealth-mode” status. The company started its first ever media blitz on Sunday with a video on 60 Minutes, an article in Fortune, and soon to be followed by the unveiling media event on Wednesday.

But while the public is just starting to hear the Bloom Energy name, greentech watchers have been scrambling for every little bit of information about Bloom Energy for years. Founder K.R. Sridhar told Fortune that the company is going public now because its Fortune 500 customers want to be able to brag about it as a green move. Here’s 10 things that you should know about Bloom Energy:

[rangerone314]

The clever monkeys that CREATED the problems are somehow going to FIX the problems.

Sort of like how when corporations CAUSE problems, like cancer and other health problems due to pollution, ANOTHER corporation can profit from the resources people have to expend to treat said problem.

But hey, its like Zorg in "The Fifth Element" said, you can create a lot of jobs and economic activity by breaking things.

[shortonsense]

But as long as BAU seems to be holding, the trucks keep coming to Wal-Mart and McDonalds keeps serving cheap value meals, all is well?

Yea its all great here also, food shelves are full, gas station still has gas and my ATM still puts out cash, what else do we need..

I feel ya...PO+5, its all just amazing how things haven't really changed.

what, exactly, hasn't changed? you lost me.

We still buy gasoline at the corner store. As much as we want. Tractors still run. Transoceanic shipping still ships. Lack of fuel hasn't stopped hydro, natural gas, wind or nukes, it was supposed to make it impossible to maintain a mechanized level of civilization lets not forget. Humans still aren't nuking each other over oilfields in the great resource wars. The price didn't permanently skyrocket post peak. It went up...and when speculation stopped, it went back down. We're still posting on the web, and normal people haven't even noticed peak oil, which was supposed to bring a shocking end to their sheeple existence.

Field declines are supposed to dominate the oil production profile, dropping production 7% a year. Instead, we get stable production. More new discoveries than expected, capped with 15 years of supply arriving last month. There is no more dieoff now than there was pre-peak. There was a NASCAR race yesterday. I can get a relatively cheap plane tickeet anywhere in the country by picking up a phone. The shuttle still goes into orbit. Disneyland still Disneylands. Posters here with their own private aircraft still fly them. People buy SUV's and pickups....still.

Okay, Hummer is on the sales block...I'll grant peakers that one.

[shortonsense]

The clever monkeys that CREATED the problems are somehow going to FIX the problems.

Sure. Why not? Certainly we can't turn civilization over to domesticated cats and dogs and figure that they'll fix it.

Sort of like how when corporations CAUSE problems, like cancer and other health problems due to pollution, ANOTHER corporation can profit from the resources people have to expend to treat said problem.

This circle of bad thing, good thing, behavioral change thing has been going on for some time. Clean Air Act? Clean Water Act? Endangered Species Act?

All reactions to runaway issues which required us to do more work so we don't do more stupid stuff. We'll get better at it as time goes on, we only invented some of these things 40 years ago.

[rangerone314]

And given "clever monkey's" proclivity towards messing with things they don't understand and trying to move quickly before they understand things (think "Titanic" traveling too quickly towards an iceberg instead of traveling more slowly), it is just a matter of time before a real catastrophy occurs.

I can just see some clever monkey finally coming up with something like "strangelets" as a solution for energy problems, and destroying the whole planet.

Or a genetically-engineered "harmless" bacteria to eat up petroleum spills that ends being more destructive than "The Stand".

If humanity was really "clever", it would figure out how to look before leaping. The "Titanic" is such a great meme for demonstrating human hubris. With our now Global civilization, the entire Earth is the Titanic, and we are manufacturing out OWN icebergs.

[SeaGypsy]

So anyay guys, did anyone see the show on 60 minutes yet?
I believe it has aired by now? I have been hanging on the edge of my seat since Friday and I am in Australia on Monday night now, Reviews please?

[pstarr]

I feel ya...PO+5, its all just amazing how things haven't really changed.

This is one of those classic posts that deserves a bump when TSHTF. Keep chuckling, cornies.

Classic post, Mos? You must have been asleep for the last one year and four months. Shorty says the same two things over and over, each inconsistent with the other:
--several previous estimates of peak date have been wrong--specifically Campbell, Drefreyes (who was spot on on fact), and Simmons---therefore the peak issue is a trival;
--peak occurred and I am still typing the same tripe.

By the way shorty, the $100,000 dollar hydrogen setup I quote is only the residential version. A commercial one (necessary for cars and trucks to fuel up on the road) is around $1 million. Cost to America: $120 billion. And how car we going to fund that? This is one of those odd situations that requires BIG GOVERNMENT incentives. What consumer in their right might mind would convert a car without fueling station network, but what station owner would construct a fueling station without a market.

[AirlinePilot]

What consumer in their right might mind would convert a car without fueling station network, but what station owner would construct a fueling station without a market.

BINGO! And I'd add to that who wants to try that in this particular recession??

[AirlinePilot]

15 years of supply arriving last month.

And the logic you choose completely fails because there is no measure of what the production rate of those 15 years of resource will be. It IS about flow rates and production capability, you just haven't been hit upside the head with it yet..not quite....but it's coming.

[TheAntiDoomer]

15 years of supply arriving last month.

And the logic you choose completely fails because there is no measure of what the production rate of those 15 years of resource will be. It IS about flow rates and production capability, you just haven't been hit upside the head with it yet..not quite....but it's coming.

such hubris AP, meanwhile, back on topic, thiks link has the video embedded for those who have not seen the report yet:


Bloom Box could be the magical fuel cell that saves the world

http://dvice.com/archives/2010/02/bloom-box-could.php

Five to ten years from now, you could have a $3000 fuel cell power generator the size of a clock radio in your basement, turning natural gas into electrical power at twice the efficiency possible today. That's the promise of the Bloom Box, a tiny power plant that combines oxygen and natural gas, a biogas or solar energy, and creates electricity.

So far, Bloom Boxes are the size of about four refrigerators, costing $700,000 to $800,000. Early adopters are companies such as eBay and Google, already saving money using these boxes. But the founder of the secretive Bloom Energy, K.R. Sridhar, says that the cheap materials inside and the inherent efficiency and his design could change the world, bringing cheap energy to everyone in a box that will cost less than $3000.

[yesplease]

i would think the bigger question is what are they made of? If it's another platinum deal like other fuel cells then it's not going to fly. If they are made of common materials then they will soar. Look forward to the answers.

No platinum AFAIK, just ceramics, some sort of cheapish alloy, and a proprietary ink.

[pstarr]

15 years of supply arriving last month.

And the logic you choose completely fails because there is no measure of what the production rate of those 15 years of resource will be. It IS about flow rates and production capability, you just haven't been hit upside the head with it yet..not quite....but it's coming.

such hubris AP,

Hubris? That's funny. You have it bass-ackwards.

hu·bris (hybrs) also hy·bris (h-)
n.
Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance: "There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy).

meanwhile, back on topic, thiks link has the video embedded for those who have not seen the report yet:


Bloom Box could be the magical fuel cell that saves the world

http://dvice.com/archives/2010/02/bloom-box-could.php

Five to ten years from now, you could have a $3000 fuel cell power generator the size of a clock radio in your basement, turning natural gas into electrical power at twice the efficiency possible today. That's the promise of the Bloom Box, a tiny power plant that combines oxygen and natural gas, a biogas or solar energy, and creates electricity.

So far, Bloom Boxes are the size of about four refrigerators, costing $700,000 to $800,000. Early adopters are companies such as eBay and Google, already saving money using these boxes. But the founder of the secretive Bloom Energy, K.R. Sridhar, says that the cheap materials inside and the inherent efficiency and his design could change the world, bringing cheap energy to everyone in a box that will cost less than $3000.

That is a hole lot of promise.

[yesplease]

You still have utilities, in the form of natural gas suppliers. Or do you think everybody's going to have high-pressure hydrogen tanks on premises, filled by lossy electrolysis driven by wind and solar?

It depends on how much these things cost versus what batteries would cost, assuming the people went w/o a grid connection. If this FC is cheap enough, say $3000 like they mentioned, and will last a couple decades, then even if the levelized cost of energy from solar panels is doubled or tripled due to converting electricity to hydrogen and back to electricity, it may still be cheaper than batteries. Time will tell.