[Texas_T]

I say that they should be mandated for every landfill in the country.

that is precisely where Bloom belongs. In a landfill, for distracting the populace from real problems and offering fake solutions. These greedy faux capitalists should be ashamed.

Energy is a real problem. Bloom can take methane from whatever source and convert it into electricity. This is certainly a good thing, particularly considering the amount of methane created by the average landfill, which would otherwise contribute to global warming scenarios.

Turn it into electricity instead, and run the transport system. Not a distraction at all.

Most larger landfills already have a system in place to use the methane, either to generate electricity on site (typically using engines) or the methane is piped to a local industrial or institutional facility. I was involved in a project where landfill gas was piped two miles to a correctional facility to fire the central heating plant.

[Texas_T]

Most larger landfills already have a system in place to use the methane, either to generate electricity on site (typically using engines) or the methane is piped to a local industrial or institutional facility. I was involved in a project where landfill gas was piped two miles to a correctional facility to fire the central heating plant.

I do believe you have overstated your case. I not aware of a landfill methane extraction systems that actually supplies an end-user consumer product at a cost less than production. So these systems are not fossil-fuel replacements, but rather AGW mitigations. There just is not the concentration of gases to justify the expensive underground collection system.

You can believe whatever you want...but I have seen many landfill gas collection/cogeneration systems installed over the last 25 years that were done strictly based on the economics of the systems. If the financial payback was not there then these systems would not have been built. BMW in South Carolina would be one example but there are many others.

I am not sure what you mean by "an end-user consumer product at a cost less than production". LFG systems take a waste gas and use it either to generate electricity and pump it into the grid (displacing conventially generated electricity) or to displace the use of natural gas in boiler systems.

[Texas_T]

Many of the LFG systems that I have seen installed were implemented as part of energy savings performance contracts. Typical simple payback requirements for these projects are in the seven to ten year range. Therefore the construction cost of the system divided by the net annual income stream (annual dollar value of natural gas displaced by landfill gas minus annual operation and maintenance costs for the LFG system) would be in the range of seven to ten years.

Other LFG systems have been installed directly by end users (and example would be Ford Motor Company). Typically industrial users have somewhat more stringent simple payback requirements.

[DoomersUnite]

I not aware ....

me not aware toos......

[DoomersUnite]

Many of the LFG systems that I have seen installed were implemented as part of energy savings performance contracts. Typical simple payback requirements for these projects are in the seven to ten year range. Therefore the construction cost of the system divided by the net annual income stream (annual dollar value of natural gas displaced by landfill gas minus annual operation and maintenance costs for the LFG system) would be in the range of seven to ten years.

Other LFG systems have been installed directly by end users (and example would be Ford Motor Company). Typically industrial users have somewhat more stringent simple payback requirements.

Thanks Texas_T. Its nice to have people around with direct experience with these types of systems. Until someone with direct experience gets involved, you can see what passes for knowledge among the average poster types. I hadn't realized methane capture was in such widespread use already, here I figured that Bloom boxes could corner the market in yet another obvious use for them.

[Texas_T]

I'm not really familiar with the Bloom device except to know that (as far as I know) its a fuel cell. Who knows, the Bloom device may open up more applications for LFG recovery. But to do so it would have to be less expensive to install than the engines that are typically used (an existing well proven technology) or it must offer some other clear advantage. My admittedly limited experience in looking at fuel cell applications would lead me to believe that it would not, unless Bloom has some new breakthrough technology.

[DoomersUnite]

I'm not really familiar with the Bloom device except to know that (as far as I know) its a fuel cell.

Thats about it. Dump in the methane, from whatever source, and it makes electricity. Scalable enough to run something small, like an electric scooter, or an entire building. I think they were using them to run some significant fraction of ebays California operations.

Who knows, the Bloom device may open up more applications for LFG recovery. But to do so it would have to be less expensive to install than the engines that are typically used (an existing well proven technology) or it must offer some other clear advantage. My admittedly limited experience in looking at fuel cell applications would lead me to believe that it would not, unless Bloom has some new breakthrough technology.

The problem Bloom admitted to during his 60 minutes interview a year or two back was cost competitiveness. He needed a subsidy to make it work. Fortunately, California in its infinite wisdom and requirements for "clean" electricity" has provided just that for him.

But California electricity prices are pretty high compared to the rest of the US, if I recall my electric stats correctly. Besides lining the pockets of politicians who don't know enough about power generation to spot snakes like the Enron gang, I'm guessing huge chunks of this type of consumer fleecing go to the regulatory environment in California.

[Tanada]

Home Depot will be one of the first customers to participate in a strategic alliance announced Tuesday between Bloom Energy and Atlanta-based utility Southern Company to integrate Bloom's servers with Southern subsidiary PowerSecure's power storage devices.

That will allow Home Depot to bank energy during non-peak times, such as overnight when stores are closed. That stored energy can then be drawn on during the day.

"It's rocket science in the box, but what it is for the customer is very simple," Bloom Energy founder and CEO K.R. Sridhar told "Squawk Box" on Tuesday.

"For the first time, we are bringing customization tailored for the specific need of a particular business … for electricity."

Bloom, one of CNBC's 2016 Disruptors, has raised more than $1 billion in investment and recently filed confidentially for an IPO.


Companies buy a set amount of electricity-generating capacity from Bloom, which is provided through a collection of its servers. That allows them to reap lower costs and predict their prices for a number of years, Sridhar said.

The fuel cell business has seen something of a renaissance in recent years after an initial period of early hype that was followed by a prolonged period when pioneers saw their stock prices collapse as the technology failed to catch on.

Revenue from fuel cells and other distributed generation exploded from $755 million in 2011 to an estimated $7.5 billion last year, according to Navigant Research. The firm expects revenue from fuel cell systems to reach $57.8 billion in 2023.

Tax credits and state rebates have helped lower the cost of purchasing fuel cell technology. But the turnaround is also due to advances by companies like Bloom, which uses cheap, abundant ceramics rather than the rare earths utilized in earlier technology.

By adopting the technology, Home Depot has driven down its electricity costs by 15 to 20 percent in the locations where it runs the servers, said the retailer's Chief Financial Officer Carol Tome. It has also cut carbon dioxide emissions by 50 million pounds since 2014, she added.

"That's the equivalent of 4,800 cars removed off the roads, so we're thrilled," Tome told CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Tuesday.

While the Bloom servers emit fewer emissions than the electric grid, an NBC Bay Area investigation found their efficiency dropped over time, somewhat narrowing the gap with the grid. Bloom revised the data it promotes following the investigation.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/25/home-dep ... -tech.html

[efarmer]

Interesting, Bloom Energy Servers can run on natural gas or biogas, and I suspect these
are all running on natural gas at about a 50% conversion efficiency of fuel to electrical energy.
Bloom does have a very impressive fuel cell design and it uses some exotic materials but
does not need platinum.

[Subjectivist]

I figured it was a mythical pump and dump, but here it is years after the company was founded and they are doing big business with big companies.