THE Biofuel Thread pt 3 (merged)

[Outcast_Searcher]

Never buy ethanol gasoline again. I won't be, and that's a start towards a better future. How many will join me in saying NO to biofuels to save the natural world?

I agree in principle with everything this thread is saying as far as morality, and that biofuels have major problems. But HOW does one who lives in a first world country like the U.S. "Never buy ethonal gasoline" unless they can do without gasoline - period?

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_eth ... l_mixtures

Blends of E10 or less are used in more than twenty countries around the world by 2011, led by the United States, where almost all retail gasoline sold in 2010 was blended with 10% of ethanol.

Since the sale of gasoline is tightly controlled, I don't see a reasonable legal way around using ethonal blended gasoline. Am I missing something?

...

For my part I am hoping to go to a Plug-In Prius in 2013 when they are generally available, and reduce my TOTAL gasoline usage to under 100 gallons a year. (Then, as the price/technology gets better, to use solar roofing to charge up the battery).

[Repent]

But HOW does one who lives in a first world country like the U.S. "Never buy ethonal gasoline" unless they can do without gasoline - period?

Premium gasoline generally does not contain ethanol. I will be buying the pricier premium, no ethanol gasoline from now on. A dollar or two more at the pump per fill, is no so much of a cost for the benift of preventing criminal land expropriations in the third world. This is a price worth paying.

[Outcast_Searcher]

But HOW does one who lives in a first world country like the U.S. "Never buy ethonal gasoline" unless they can do without gasoline - period?

Premium gasoline generally does not contain ethanol. I will be buying the pricier premium, no ethanol gasoline from now on. A dollar or two more at the pump per fill, is no so much of a cost for the benift of preventing criminal land expropriations in the third world. This is a price worth paying.

Thanks. I was unaware of that. I have been hearing/reading about them (the EPA egged on by the greens, etc) wanting to push toward an E15 minimum standard, DESPITE concerns about corrosion and causing problems with certain parts (like fuel pumps, as I recall).

Now, the only question, which I might do some reading on -- as I understand it there are OTHER additives used for premium blend, to bring the octane up to that standard. I wonder what the negatives (for the planet and one's car) might be for those additives...

I'm with you -- minor extra cost is often well worth the benefit - for many types of transactions. For me, better or friendlier service is often worth a small extra cost, for example.

[Loki]

A dollar or two more at the pump per fill, is no so much of a cost for the benift of preventing criminal land expropriations in the third world. This is a price worth paying.

Don't know about Canada, but the ethanol in the US does not come from Third World countries, it's all homegrown American corn. Ditto for biodiesel, which is usually soy or canola based.

In their infinite wisdom, the fedgov is talking about lifting tariffs on imported biofuels, though.

[highlander]

At best biofuels are a device to burn coal into electricity to covert sugar into alcohol (or oil seeds into biodiesel) for the purpose of combusting it in car engines

Well, at least you can differentiate between different kinds of biofuels.

I'm still converting waste vegetable oil into biodiesel, and feel no remorse.

You all are still burning petrol.

I say ban all biofuel boycotters

[highlander]

[In their infinite wisdom, the fedgov is talking about lifting tariffs on imported biofuels, though.

Yes, they put up a big front about ending subsidies for ethanol, then turn around and eliminate the tariff. We will soon be importing all our ethanol. We will save about $0.06/gallon!

[Pretorian]

I was shocked today when I read this story about a wildlife preserve in Kenya; where the land has been sold to Bedford Biofuels of Canada who will be using the land and water to produce biofuels:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... enya-delta

The animals are dying, 'peasants' are being driven from their homes and lands in outright land grab clearances by corrupt government and criminals. We also have new conflicts arising as displaced people everywhere start fighting back, war is good for no one.

Ethanol being added to gasoline does little more than delay the inevitable end to the oil age. Ethanol does not provide cheap renewable energy that has 'less of an impact on the enviroment', as it has been widely claimed. As this story shows, the carbon from burning ethanol may pollute less, but the human and enviromental costs of growing the biofuels in the first place is catastrophic.

Everyone who still drives, or uses gasoline for anything; lawnmowers, lawn and garden tools, boating or recreation, everyone must start boycotting ethanol to save what is left of the natural world. Boycotts are real, and if pursued by enough people they have real effects; eventually to preserve market share companies will abandon biofuel additives to placate the consumers and restore their sales.

Never buy ethanol gasoline again. I won't be, and that's a start towards a better future. How many will join me in saying NO to biofuels to save the natural world?

I do not understand what all that got to do with biofuels. When the same thing happens to grow coffee or coconuts, soy or eucalypto trees that is ok with you? Because it does happen all the time.

[timmac]

I do not understand what all that got to do with biofuels. When the same thing happens to grow coffee or coconuts, soy or eucalypto trees that is ok with you? Because it does happen all the time.

Exactly Right, was Repent posting to ban oil when the Gulf of Mexico was full of oil or was that OK..

[Graeme]

Biofuels Potential to Transform the Global Economy

Slowly but surely, an extraordinarily important new industry is slowly taking shape, with the potential to transform the global economy.

After years of existing largely as an environmentalist's fantasy, commercial production of biofuels for the world civil aviation industry is slowly becoming a fact, with production starting up across three continents.

The leading contenders for biofuel feedstocks are jatropha and camelina, both of which have their fervent supporters. While currently neither is capable of production at a price approaching that of Jet A1 civil aviation fuel derived from hydrocarbons, research and extensive investment are nevertheless investigating the possibilities.

While little is certain in the emerging picture, it is increasingly clear that despite the United States being one of the leading producers currently of renewable energy in the form of ethanol, that the United States nevertheless will be an also-ran in these developments.

oilprice

[Keith_McClary]

Alligator fat could be used to make biodiesel

Every year, the alligator meat industry disposes of about 15 million pounds of alligator fat in landfills. Now scientists have found that oil can be extracted from the fat and used to make a high-quality biodiesel.
...
the Louisiana researchers have ... explained that alligator fat has a high lipid content, and the lipids could be recovered by microwaving frozen samples and by using a chemical solvent.

Now we just need to breed fatter alligators.

[dolanbaker]

Fill 'er up and make it snappy!
There's an alligator in yer tank!

Things must be getting desperate!

[pup55]

15,000,000 pounds of alligator fat per year
50% collection efficiency (optimisitc)
7500000 pounds per year potential
7.5 pounds per gallon density of alligator fat
1000000 gallons of alligator fat available
42 gallons per barrel
23810 barrels of alligator fat per year available
3,600,000 barrels per day diesel usage
0.006613757 days' consumption of diesel as alligator fat
1440 minutes in a day
9.523809524 minutes of diesel supplied by alligator fat


Leaving aside, for a moment, the question of how much energy is needed to render the alligator fat into something useable.

[AdTheNad]

You know where else you could get fat to make biodiesel.... (does a GIS on fat ass with safesearch off) Oh dear god I can't post those pictures.

To be fair, why is it all being dumped in the first place anyway? Surely there is some other use for alligator fat.

What happens to cow and pig fat? I thought it found its way into sausages or cheap meat products.

[Keith_McClary]

To be fair, why is it all being dumped in the first place anyway? Surely there is some other use for alligator fat.

What happens to cow and pig fat? I thought it found its way into sausages or cheap meat products.

ALLIGATOR PIE
Dennis Lee
From: Alligator Pie. Toronto: Macmillan, 1974.

Alligator pie, alligator pie,
If I don't get some I think I'm gonna die.
Give away the green grass, give away the sky,
But don't give away my alligator pie.

Alligator stew, alligator stew,
If I don't get some I don't know what I'll do.
Give away my furry hat, give away my shoe,
But don't give away my alligator stew.

Alligator soup, alligator soup,
If I don't get some I think I'm gonna droop.
Give away my hockey stick, give away my hoop,
But don't give away my alligator soup.

[Pops]

We'll do just about anything to go Vroom vroom!

I didn't know there even was an aligator meat industry!

[eXpat]

There are not that many alligators you know? Human fat on the other hand

[pup55]

average weight of an american male 191 pounds
averge weight of an american female 164 pounds
US Population 300,000,000
Average body fat, Men 25 percent
Average body fat, Women 30 Percent
"essential" body fat, Men 5 percent
"essential" body fat, women 12 percent
"available" body fat, men 20 percent
"available" body fat, women 18 percent
Extractable fat per man 38.2 pounds
Extractable fat per woman 29.52 pounds
Extractable Fat, Male Population 5730000000 pounds
Extractable Fat, Female Populaton 4428000000 Pounds
Total Extractable Fat 10,158,000,000 pounds
Pounds Per Gallon 8
Gallons of Fat 1,269,750,000 gallons
Gallons per Barrel 42
Barrels of Fat Available 30,232,143 barrels
Diesel Fuel, Daily Consumption 3,600,000 barrels per day
Days Consumption of Diesel 8.40 days


http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcar ... butfat.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

[Pops]

Days Consumption of Diesel 8.40 days

We gotta cover all the bases, thanks Pup!

[Pretorian]

average weight of an american male 191 pounds
averge weight of an american female 164 pounds
US Population 300,000,000
Average body fat, Men 25 percent
Average body fat, Women 30 Percent

May be that was the case when USP was at 300 mln... Now people are older and fattier.
Anyway, I am scared to imagine how much meat and offal they have to eat to make 1 pound of their fat. I mean crocodiles of course. For humanoids, 1 pizza will do.

[JRP3]

I'd bet it would be more efficient and you'd get more "miles per gallon" if you simply burned the fat in a generating plant to produce electricity and charge EV's. Biomass and natural gas are both better used to charge EV's than burning in an inefficient ICE vehicle, I'd expect the same from waste fat.