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THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ennui2 » Mon 18 May 2015, 16:16:56

Newfie wrote:I suggest that there is a natural impediment to this forward thinkingap and planning in the shortness of our life spans relative to the flow of the problem. Because children grow up in the world they grow up in they experience the degradation of their parents world as "normal." This each generation has a new normal, the time clock is reset. It naturally limits how far we, as a collective, can look into the future.


Bingo. This is my own personal definition of "tragedy of the commons". Deep ecology and thinking in "deep time" is a foreign concept to humanity. It's possible to do it, but it is by no means our standard operating procedure. We operate in the now, fight or flight. The reason why monuments like the Pyramids are wonders of the world is because it's so rare to have any endeavor of humanity that is intended to last any longer than is required for a quick payback. It's something reserved for pharaohs. This is also why I think permaculture has no chance, because it requires that the land have a consistent caretaker over a period of decades at least before it matures. In that short amount of time it's likely that the land will change owners and the new owners won't see the value of what's being attempted and the land will be turned into a subdivision or an open field for annuals. There's just too much turnover in land ownership. I see this even in the suburbs here where maple trees that have been around since I was a kid are casually sent into the chipper and stumped because the owner wants to put in a cul-de-sac driveway. These maple trees were probably planted in post-war. In deep time, these trees are still young but they battle long odds when these houses change hands on average what, once every couple decades at least?

The only kind of land use that works under these circumstances are annuals. Sad but true.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Tue 19 May 2015, 04:51:23

pstarr wrote:10 pounds from 99 plants in 150 sq. ft., under 6-8 lights is about right for the industry. Outdoor? The sky is the limit, literally and figuratively.

I thought as much. :) Try growing a years worth of food for you and your family and then we can talk Permaculture. It is very different when you want to grow things by the ton or at least tens of bushels.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby kiwichick » Tue 19 May 2015, 05:38:26

+1 newfie

each generation only really starts to take notice of what is going on around them after they enter their second decade on this planet

my memory is pretty sketchy prior to 1970 so I don't really remember playing in the snow on my grandparents farm in the mid 60's, even though I can see my younger self in the photo's

my kids , born between 1985 and 1990 , probably don't remember any thing that happened before the mid 1990's

I don't think it is just fashion that has us wearing fewer clothes today than our parents or grandparents were wearing 50 or 80 years ago

one of our largest glaciers in New Zealand, the Tasman has thinned by approximately 150 metres ( approx. 450 feet ) since it's first survey in the 1890's but that's impossible to see from day to day or even from one year to the next unless you are constantly watching

my kids will see the lake at the end of the glacier and struggle to realize that just 40 years ago that was solid ice over 100 metres thick
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Wed 20 May 2015, 00:15:49

ROCKMAN wrote:Keith - "That doesn't seem to have made much difference." That brings to mind a response from Gen. Scharzkopf when a reporter asked a seemingly critical question as to how many land mines were there in that field he ran across to save a wounded man. The general gave him a stare that would make you blood run cold: "It only takes one to kill you." He didn't say it but you could tell the last word of the comment would have been "...ass hole".

Likewise it only takes one sperm, just like one land mine, to get the job done. LOL.

That's an interesting question. If 50% doesn't make much difference, would 90% ? By what factor is our equipment over-engineered? There must be some evolutionary reason why there is such excess capacity. Has anyone seen research on this?
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Wed 20 May 2015, 06:25:15

Keith - Long ago I read an editorial on the subject. They laid the basic blame for over population not on our "excess capacity" to create babies but on our improved health systems. Long ago when mortality,(especially child mortality) was so high there wasn't excess capacity. But thanks to modern medicine our life spans have stretched much further then evolution could adjust to.

IOW we aren't having too many babies...we're keeping old farts like me and you alive too long. LOL.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 20 May 2015, 06:27:15

Ask a dairy farmer how many Bulls he needs.

You could cut the male population by 90% without effecting theoretical growth rates at all and, i suspect, embarrassingly little effect on actuaalized birth rates.

By the large, men are redundant. Good for dangerous jobs the smart folks don't wat to do.

Come to think of it, where are the demand contributors to this site?
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Newfie » Wed 20 May 2015, 06:29:40

Right on ROCK. Not only that, but we don't retire from the workforce, thus we starve the youngsters of their livelihood.

I intend to do my necessary duty and retire in Dec. Far to late, but I plead special circumstances, my Wife made me do it. 8O :-D (Which is actually true.)
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby ennui2 » Wed 20 May 2015, 09:52:29

Who is "we"? There ARE groups out there having lots of babies, even in the US.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 21 Apr 2017, 08:33:41

Everyone should watch this video, especially those who do not have a grasp on how and why biodiversity develops.

https://youtu.be/xPeyrXIBZG8
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What Will It Really Take to Avoid Collapse?

Unread postby AdamB » Wed 20 Dec 2017, 13:40:11


Fifteen thousand scientists have issued a dire warning to humanity about impending collapse but virtually no-one takes notice. Ultimately, our global systems, which are designed for perpetual growth, need to be fundamentally restructured to avoid the worst-case outcome. For a moment, the most important news in the entire world flashed across the media like a shooting star in the night sky. Then it was gone. Last month, over fifteen thousand scientists from 184 countries issued a dire warning to humanity. Because of our overconsumption of the world’s resources, they declared, we are facing “widespread misery and catastrophic biodiversity loss.” They warned that time is running out: “Soon it will be too late to shift course away from our failing trajectory.” This is not the first such notice. Twenty-five years ago, in 1992, 1,700 scientists (including the majority of living Nobel laureates)


What Will It Really Take to Avoid Collapse?
Peak oil in 2020: And here is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 26 Jan 2018, 13:33:46

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/ ... extinction

The North Atlantic right whale faces extinction


In a sad reversal of fortune, the North Atlantic right whale is in deep trouble again after rebounding in recent decades from centuries of hunting. Recent population trends are so dire that experts predict the whale could vanish within 20 years, making it the first great whale to go extinct in modern times.

At a meeting of the Society for Marine Mammalogy here last month, whale experts reported that roughly 100 reproductively mature females remain, but they are not living long enough or reproducing quickly enough for the species to survive. Ship strikes have long been a threat, and fatal entanglements in commercial fishing gear are taking an increasing toll. And researchers have found that even when an entangled female doesn’t die, dragging ropes, buoys, or traps can exhaust her, making her less likely to reproduce.

“It’s going to take a bold effort on the part of everyone involved” to save the species, says Ann Pabst, a functional morphologist at the University of North Carolina in Wilmington. “We have to redouble our efforts.”
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2

Unread postby Subjectivist » Sat 27 Jan 2018, 18:00:23

Tanada wrote:Everyone should watch this video, especially those who do not have a grasp on how and why biodiversity develops.

https://youtu.be/xPeyrXIBZG8



Nice! We don’t just slap birds and bats out of the sky with windmills, we flash fry them with solar mirrors as a bonus!
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 09:26:08

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... pesticides

'Catastrophe' as France's bird population collapses due to pesticides


Dozens of species have seen their numbers decline, in some cases by two-thirds, because insects they feed on have disappeared


Bird populations across the French countryside have fallen by a third over the last decade and a half, researchers have said.

Dozens of species have seen their numbers decline, in some cases by two-thirds, the scientists said in a pair of studies – one national in scope and the other covering a large agricultural region in central France.

“The situation is catastrophic,” said Benoit Fontaine, a conservation biologist at France’s National Museum of Natural History and co-author of one of the studies. “Our countryside is in the process of becoming a veritable desert,” he said in a communique released by the National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS), which also contributed to the findings.

The common white throat, the ortolan bunting, the Eurasian skylark and other once-ubiquitous species have all fallen off by at least a third, according a detailed, annual census initiated at the start of the century. A migratory song bird, the meadow pipit, has declined by nearly 70%.

The museum described the pace and extent of the wipe-out as “a level approaching an ecological catastrophe”. The primary culprit, researchers speculate, is the intensive use of pesticides on vast tracts of monoculture crops, especially wheat and corn.

The problem is not that birds are being poisoned, but that the insects on which they depend for food have disappeared.

“There are hardly any insects left, that’s the number one problem,” said Vincent Bretagnolle, a CNRS ecologist at the Centre for Biological Studies in Chize. Recent research, he noted, has uncovered similar trends across Europe, estimating that flying insects have declined by 80%, and bird populations has dropped by more than 400m in 30 years.

Despite a government plan to cut pesticide use in half by 2020, sales in France have climbed steadily, reaching more than 75,000 tonnes of active ingredient in 2014, according to European Union figures.


Very sad but fairly predictable after the recent study that showed the crash in European insect population.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Wed 21 Mar 2018, 11:38:14

This of course has nothing to do with AGW/CC, and everything to do with human overpopulation and overproduction of human food crops. Even my suburban neighbors (those who have not thrown in the towel and gone to drought-tolerant landscaping) are using a variety of pesticides around their homes.

I have to make a decision about this now. We removed our pool from our backyard because it was no longer viable due to a large overhanging tree and the intrusion of tree roots into the pool itself, right through the concrete. The heavy equipment used pretty much destroyed the front lawn. The easiest thing to do, and the most economical, would be to install irrigation and sod. This leaves all the options open for the next homeowner. Sod even with plastic plumbing added is probably one of the cheaper alternatives, and one that will maximize the retail value and help with marketing our home. However, every insect pest known to man lives in California, the sod as installed will be impregnated with commercially applied chemicals and pesticides, and more will need to be applied regularly to control things like sod webworm and even moles, both of which have troubled my front yard in the past.

If I were staying in this area, I would remove the front lawn and do drought resistant, low water consumption landscaping in both front and rear yards. But that is more expensive than sod and not to everybody's tastes.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Thu 22 Mar 2018, 09:52:54

We are certainly assaulting the living world on many fronts.

Best of luck on your decision.

"I would remove the front lawn and do drought resistant, low water consumption landscaping in both front and rear yards."

I would still encourage this option.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 23 Mar 2018, 21:07:21

Species worldwide in decline as result of human activity

Over the coming decades, climate change will worsen the loss of biodiversity even more, the report warned.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/ ... 50584.html
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 29 Mar 2018, 13:09:22

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... pesticides
Catastrophe' as France's bird population collapses due to pesticides
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 18 May 2018, 12:37:56

MANY OF THE world's amphibians are staring down an existential threat: an ancient skin-eating fungus that can wipe out entire forests' worth of frogs in a flash.

This ecological super-villain, the chytrid fungus Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis, has driven more than 200 amphibian species to extinction or near-extinction—radically rewiring ecosystems all over Earth.

“This is the worst pathogen in the history of the world, as far as we can tell, in terms of its impacts on biodiversity,” says Mat Fisher, an Imperial College London mycologist who studies the fungus...


https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... ?beta=true

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... tists-warn



Climate change on track to cause major insect wipeout...

Insects are vital to ecosystems but will lose almost half their habitat under current climate projections

The new research is the most comprehensive to date, analysing the impact of different levels of climate change on the ranges of 115,000 species. It found plants are also heavily affected but that mammals and birds, which can more easily migrate as climate changes, suffered less.

“We showed insects are the most sensitive group,” said Prof Rachel Warren, at the University of East Anglia, who led the new work. “They are important because ecosystems cannot function without insects. They play an absolutely critical role in the food chain.”

“The disruption to our ecosystems if we were to lose that high proportion of our insects would be extremely far-reaching and widespread,” she said. “People should be concerned - humans depend on ecosystems functioning.” Pollination, fertile soils, clean water and more all depend on healthy ecosystems, Warren said........

......Another study published in Science on Thursday found that one third of the world’s protected areas, which cover 15% of all land, are now highly degraded by intense human pressure including road building, grazing, and urbanisation.
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby pstarr » Fri 18 May 2018, 12:48:27

Same science and research . . . without the horrifically scary/sad spin
Studies published by the National Academy of Sciences have shown that these pathogens on the frogs’ skin can drastically alter the microbiome of the frogs’ skin, leading to fast and fatal periods of disease.However, to the surprise of many in the scientific community, the Panamanian golden frog as well as other once-declining species seem to be making a comeback.

http://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/20 ... on-rebound
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Re: THE Biodiversity thread Pt. 2(merged)

Unread postby dohboi » Fri 18 May 2018, 13:13:22

Thanks for that, p. It looks like some are evolving fast enough to build up defenses. Others have gone or will go extinct before they manage to do so.
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