[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

My grandfather is 94 and much the same (except that he's a real bastard) and my dad is about to turn 70 this year. He still works. He sold up his place and lives in an RV now. He has a 26 foot trailer that is a mobile workshop that he drags everywhere doing engine repair, and carpentry type stuff.

My kids joke that I will be doing projects till the day I die and be knee deep in my different projects when I finally kick the bucket. Maybe for some of us, being busy and active and interested in things is just our way of being. But I still don't think I'd be anything but a sobbing mess if I'd lost 700,000$$. Taht takes a special kind of person.

[vision-master]

Here's the performance of one of my funds I'm collecting from.........

Minneapolis pension fund seeking merger with state fund to stay solvent

Faced with going broke in as few as six years, a closed Minneapolis pension fund with thousands of retired city employees is seeking a merger with a statewide public employees pension fund -- and soon.

The merger proposal won endorsement from a City Council committee on Tuesday, which said it wants other closed funds for city cops and firefighters to merge with their state plan too.

The 90-year-old Minneapolis Employees Retirement Fund (MERF) is paying retirees about $155 million annually, with assets of just under $800 million, plus any investment gain, to finance those benefits.

MERF covers city employees who were hired before 1979, so it has 4,600 people drawing pensions while fewer than 200 are still working. The crash in investment markets has cut MERF assets almost in half.

http://www.startribune.com/local/389509 ... =KArksUUUU

Almost all of these ppl ONLY worked under this pension plan till retiring. It was a 'basic' plan. They didn't pay into Social Security at all, so if 'it' goes belly up - they get ZERO Social Security and ZERO pension. I may end up losing 20% of my income within the next few years.

House payments at age 90? WTF!

[vision-master]

My grandfather is in his 80s and still does light construction, plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical, automotive and marine work part time to stay active.

When we're swamped with work, he helps out on a lot of estimates, heat loss calculations, system designing, boiler installations, A/C and refrigeration service, troubleshooting, training etc.

If my grandmother didn't stop him, he'd be out shoveling off roofs and fixing all the roofing, water and structure damage we have this winter.

an that work has dryed up to almost nothing.

[MarkJ]

My grandfather is in his 80s and still does light construction, plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical, automotive and marine work part time to stay active.

When we're swamped with work, he helps out on a lot of estimates, heat loss calculations, system designing, boiler installations, A/C and refrigeration service, troubleshooting, training etc.

If my grandmother didn't stop him, he'd be out shoveling off roofs and fixing all the roofing, water and structure damage we have this winter.

an that work has dryed up to almost nothing.

We never catch up on our work. We're forced to turn down dozens of large jobs and hundreds of small to mid sized jobs since we can't get to them in a reasonable amount of time. (not including hundreds of emergency service calls per season).


One of our former employees that went into business for himself only has a couple hundred regular customers, but received 27 emergency no-heat calls in a single night. Now he's getting swamped with customers calling about roofing and structure damage from ice, snow and water. He has an opportunity to build a couple custom homes in the spring, but he'll be too busy with other work.

[vision-master]

I know a 30 year veteran in the business. He has no or very little work in this city of 3 million.

[MarkJ]

I know a 30 year veteran in the business. He has no or very little work in this city of 3 million.

Our only business that's down substantially is residential existing construction A/C installation work. Last winter we booked plenty of spring/summer jobs, but this year we have less than two dozen, plus some may change their mind.

[Plantagenet]

.
It's likely to get even worse. for the 90 year old and others who were in Madoff Ponzi scheme for a long period of time.....just wait until the lawyers get involved and try to make Madoff's older clients "disgorge" their earnings......if this 90 year man had 750K with Madoff for 10 or 20 years, and he was earning 10%+ returns, then he received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Madoff's Ponzi scheme that the lawyers can legitimately sue him for to try to "claw it back" and make restitution to other people who got into the fund closer to the time it collapsed.

[Daphne64]

.
It's likely to get even worse. for the 90 year old and others who were in Madoff Ponzi scheme for a long period of time.....just wait until the lawyers get involved and try to make Madoff's older clients "disgorge" their earnings......if this 90 year man had 750K with Madoff for 10 or 20 years, and he was earning 10%+ returns, then he received hundreds of thousands of dollars from Madoff's Ponzi scheme that the lawyers can legitimately sue him for to try to "claw it back" and make restitution to other people who got into the fund closer to the time it collapsed.

I doubt they are going to try to claw back money from people that CLEARLY have none.

The first rule of trial lawyers is "Go for the deep pockets"

[Pretorian]

My grandfather is in his 80s and still does light construction, plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical, automotive and marine work part time to stay active.

When we're swamped with work, he helps out on a lot of estimates, heat loss calculations, system designing, boiler installations, A/C and refrigeration service, troubleshooting, training etc.

If my grandmother didn't stop him, he'd be out shoveling off roofs and fixing all the roofing, water and structure damage we have this winter.

an that work has dryed up to almost nothing.

For once, wisdom words from vision-master. He'd be better off working for cash and drawing welfare during all his life.

[vision-master]

My grandfather is in his 80s and still does light construction, plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical, automotive and marine work part time to stay active.

When we're swamped with work, he helps out on a lot of estimates, heat loss calculations, system designing, boiler installations, A/C and refrigeration service, troubleshooting, training etc.

If my grandmother didn't stop him, he'd be out shoveling off roofs and fixing all the roofing, water and structure damage we have this winter.

an that work has dryed up to almost nothing.

For once, wisdom words from vision-master. He'd be better off working for cash and drawing welfare during all his life.

Welfare don't pay enough. There are better avenues!

[Pretorian]

[ Theirmann said he [b]had no choice but to go back to work for $10 an hour.

Good lord , 10 bucks an hour for a 90 yo greeter ! You Americans are in line for some really cold shower rather sooner than later.

[Plantagenet]

I doubt they are going to try to claw back money from people that CLEARLY have none. The first rule of trial lawyers is "Go for the deep pockets"

This elderly man DOES have some money the lawyers could go after. He has a house. Lawyers love to take people's houses.

I'm sure they'll go for the deep pockets first, but trial lawyers are so sleazy they are likely to eventually go for any pocket they can get. There are billions of dollars involved here, and many of the billions involve individual investors across the U.S. After all, this will be a class action where all the people who got into the Ponzi scheme late will try to claw back from ALL those who got in early and made money. If this elderly gentleman was in the Madoff fund for many years, then his name will be on the computer list of those investors who got in early to the Ponzi scheme, and his profits or any remaining assets like his home may be a target for a clawback along with the assets of everyone else on the list of Madoff investors who got in early.

[UltraViciousBudgie]

This elderly man DOES have some money the lawyers could go after. He has a house. Lawyers love to take people's houses.

Unless he lives in an expensive house the sharks won't get it. MA homesteads up to 500K of the value of a house from levy. Plus he has a mortgage on it anyway. Those in other states may not be so lucky, like CA where only 150K of value is protected.

Someone who lived through the previous depression should have taken to heart the lesson about not keeping all your eggs in one basket. Rotten or otherwise. Too bad he learns this so late in life.

[Plantagenet]

" Thiermann.... was just 12 or 13 when his stepfather killed himself during the Great Depression so life insurance would save the family business. It didn't, Thiermann said. "The banks got all of it."

---This guy has had bad luck for 80 years.

The details of how he came up with $750,000 to make his investment with Madoff are a story in themselves.

The story in the Santa Cruz paper says he bought his house in Ben Lomond in 1980. (Ben Lomond is a nice little town up the coast from Santa Cruz, Ca.). The value of his home went through the ceiling since 1980 and Mr. Theirman had it paid off, but then Mr. Thiermann decided to take out a loan in order to get some cash to put into the Madoff fund.....he got the loan for $750,000 at 5% with his house for collateral, and figured since he was going to get 10% back from Madoff every year he'd be 5% ahead after making the mortgage payments.

No such luck.

If he can't make the payments on his mortgage then he'll lose the house to the bank.

[Pretorian]

I wonder what were his plans, with 800K in savings , pension and a house in Cali, at 90yo.

[Micki]

Gary Ackerman is pissed of...no, PISSED OFF with SEC.
And SEC treats him like an idiot and site executive branch privelege to not answer questions.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1021551579

If it is not time for pitchforks now, I don't know when.

[Keith_McClary]

Madoff seems to have created a new industry (for lawyers).
http://www.law.com/jsp/law/madoff.jsp

[IslandCrow]

Someone is making some money out of all this, with the "Madoff doll":


Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7898919.stm

[Keith_McClary]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/business-leaders/new-evidence-emerges-madoff-case/
Quoting the whole article:

Friday, February 20, 2009
New Evidence Emerges in Madoff Case

Dunstan Prial
FOXBusiness


Bernard L. Madoff’s records show the accused Ponzi scheme mastermind conducted not a single transaction for investors for at least 13 years prior to his arrest in December.

During a meeting for Madoff’s creditors Friday in Manhattan, Irving Picard, the trustee hired to oversee liquidation of Madoff’s assets, said the investigation has revealed “no evidence that securities were purchased for customer accounts” for a “substantial period.”

Picard said the period of inactivity probably goes back further than the 13 years proven by records.

Moreover, the investigation has concluded that Madoff’s broker dealer and market making business, located on the 19th floor of his 3rd Avenue offices, was “one in the same” with the investment advisory business located on the 17th floor.
"The nefarious activity took place on the 17th floor,” said Picard, adding, “We have found nothing to suggest separation between the broker-dealer and the investment adviser.”

“Even though you thought there was a difference, we found nothing to suggest there was,” Picard added.

Consequently, according to the bankruptcy trustee, Madoff’s relatives, including his brother Peter, and his two sons, Andrew and Mark, are all implicated in the scheme that by Madoff’s own admission may have fleeced $50 billion from investors.

Still, Picard said most of the 180 or so employees of Madoff’s firm appeared to be unaware of the alleged Ponzi scheme. The 17th floor offices were “under lock and key, there was very little access,” said Picard.

Investigators are trying to determine who had access to the 17th floor and what their roles were in those offices.

Madoff, 70, has been charged with one count of securities fraud. Prosecutors and defense attorneys were recently granted an extension for the deadline by which Madoff must be indicted in order to continue negotiations on a plea agreement.
Picard told about 300 people in an auditorium at U.S. Bankruptcy Courthouse in Manhattan that there will likely be a shortfall between the amount of money sought by Madoff investors and the amount recovered by investigators.

Picard said as of Feb. 19 he has received, 2,350 customer claims from people who believe they were Madoff customers.
The deadline for issuing a claim under the Securities Investor Protection Act is July 2.

Picard reiterated that he has so far recovered about $1 billion in cash and securities held by Madoff at the time of his arrest.
Other assets soon to be liquidated or sold include the broker dealer arm of Madoff’s operations, now manned by 45 employees, and artwork that decorated his offices.

It’s uncertain how much these assets are worth, and Picard said he’s taking into account the down economy while attempting to sell Madoff-related goods so that victims receive as much compensation as possible.

On the issue of clawbacks, or profits given to early Madoff investors that will have to be returned, a trustee lawyer left no doubt that the government sees those funds as “false profits.”

“There were no stocks bought or sold. It all got made up,” said David Sheehan, a lawyer working with Picard. “You may think you [earned a profit] but you got somebody else’s money.”

[SeaGypsy]

Let's hope this is the 1st of many!

"NEW YORK - Saying he was “deeply sorry and ashamed,” Bernard Madoff pleaded guilty Thursday to pulling off perhaps the biggest swindle in Wall Street history and was immediately led off to jail in handcuffs to the applause of his seething victims in the courtroom.
U.S. District Judge Denny Chin denied bail for Madoff, 70, and ordered him to jail, noting that he had the means to flee and an incentive to do so because of his age. " link