THE Bees Thread (merged)

[SoothSayer]

We can probably all thank Mansanto for this. Their GE crops will kill us all.

Yes, Monsanto created a GE variety of cotton a while ago with the DNA of Bacillus Thuringenisis. They figured the fact that it would kill honeybees was acceptable if it also killed the other bugs. Who knows what has happened since they released this shit. Motherfuckers.

I have just looked at various research papers on this; honey bees were found NOT to be affected by this protein. If this crop is responsible, the effect must be very subtle, but nevertheless lethal.

[Fiddlerdave]

Look at the German article early in the thread. A possibility is shown that the modified crops make the intestines of the hooneybees susceptible to otherwise harmless parasites.

Who's gonna research this? Bush? Intelligent design aint' in his Bible. Monsanto? Ha! There are probably hundreds of interactions like this. In my opinion, any Monsanto or government employee who reported the possibility of a negative interaction with a hot new product will probably find themselves with a "Will modify food genes for food" sign on a street corner real quick! And for that disregard for humanity, we will ALL pay a huge price (except the direcors of Monsanto).

[dohboi]

Now I'm forgetting where I heard or read this, but I thought one recently popular pesticide acts by disorienting the bugs. Some bee keepers have pointed out that this is exactly what is happening to bees--they can't find their way back to the hive. They just go away and never come back. Generally no dead bees are found around the hive because their just wandering around till they die off alone somewhere.

But probably we'll never know all the causes for this disaster.

[killJOY]

Now I'm forgetting where I heard or read this, but I thought one recently popular pesticide acts by disorienting the bugs.

I second that. I heard it on NPR. I can't for the life of me remember the OBNOXIOUS name of the pesticide that's causing it. I still bought two nuc colonies to raise. We have to do all we can to keep them alive.

[jdumars]

they're just wandering around till they die off alone somewhere.

This is a potent metaphor for the whole of our society. I am planting bee attractor mixes, bee balm and borage in the the garden. I'm also not using any chemicals or fertilizers other than human pee from humans that don't eat any chemicals or drugs. God save us... because we are hardly capable or worthy of doing so ouselves. My wife: link

[gg3]

"Bee attractor mixes." Very interesting. Sounds like mixtures of flowers that are known to attract bees, is that right? Say more. For example can you buy regional seed mixes for these flowers, or do you have to figure out what grows in your area and then experiment? This could become a highly useful and highly popular method for keeping wild bees going. In fact it could be something that suburban families could get into, and could be used to raise awareness of global warming and other macro-ecological issues.

I'll pass the word along to our community group ( www.thefosl.org ) about this one. We have a seed saving committee already, and they could add this to their task list. Nice to know that flower gardens, normally thought of as purely decorative, can serve a practical function that might turn out to make a difference in the long-term picture.

[Venerye]

Now I'm forgetting where I heard or read this, but I thought one recently popular pesticide acts by disorienting the bugs. Some bee keepers have pointed out that this is exactly what is happening to bees--they can't find their way back to the hive. They just go away and never come back.

There is currently a working group studying "Colony Collapse Disorder," the formal name for the phenomenon. "Participating organizations include the USDA/ARS, the Florida Department of Agriculture, the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, Pennsylvania State University, and Bee Alert, Inc., a technology transfer company affiliated with the University of Montana. Broadly this group has identified its mandate as: 'Exploring the cause or causes of honey bee colony collapse and finding appropriate strategies to reduce colony loss in the future.'" website

Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) is the name that has been given to the latest, and what seems to be the most serious, die-off of honey bee colonies across the country. It is characterized by, sudden colony death with a lack of adult bees in/in front of the dead-outs. Honey and bee bread are usually present and there is often evidence of recent brood rearing. In some cases, the queen and a small number of survivor bees may be present in the brood nest. It is also characterized by delayed robbing and slower than normal invasion by common pests such as wax moth and small hive beetles.

[According to the CCD report] "If bees are eating fresh or stored pollen contaminated with [neonicotinioid pesticides] at low levels, they may not cause mortality but may impact the bee's ability to learn or make memories. If this is the case, young bees leaving the hive to make orientation flights may not be able to learn the location of the hive and may not be returning causing the colonies to dwindle and eventually die."

Neonicotinoid pesticides:
*Imidacloprid = Bayer; trade names Merit, Admire, Gaucho, Confidor, Premise, Touchstone and Winner, Hachikusan (in Japan) and Premise for termite control, and Advantage in the US and Europe for flea control on pets.
*Clothianidin = Bayer; trade names Clutch, Prosper, Poncho, ArenaTM
*Thiamethoxam = Syngenta; trade names Cruiser, Platinum, Helix

But just as devastating to bee stocks as CCD are tracheal mites and Varroa mites which were introduced to North America in the 80's and endemic bacterial diseases which have recently become antibiotic-resistant (American foulbrood). Both have become widespread in the last decade or two. Mites were responsible for over a 70% colony loss rate in 95'-96' and 00'-01' in the northern states.

[dohboi]

Thanks for the excellent information, venerye. Do you know what is meant by "American foulbrood"? Quite a pungent name! So in your obviously well informed opinion, are we just totally screwed here? Can we push through a ban on the most obvious culprits--these neonicotinoids? Can anything control these mites? Was the antibiotic resistance due to their over-use on large commercial farms?

I also have a large native (mostly) local flower garden, and I have seen very notable declines in both bee and butterfly populations in the last few years. Somehow this immediately visible decline hits me harder than many other looming catastrophes that I know of mostly second hand. Beyond their vital utility, a world without bees and butterflies seems empty and sterile in far more than the literal sense.

[Chaparral]

gg3, you may want to do a search on "companion planting" as well. Each region will have it's own native flowering species that attract bees as well as a suite of non-natives that do the job as well. I'd consider a group of flowering annuals and perennials that bloom at different times of the year, such that between 20 odd species/cultivars, you'd have flowers providing nectar and pollen 9 to 12 months a year. Some of these plants will provide other goods like erosion control or medicinal products; think Lavender, Sage etc etc. There seems to be enough permaculturists in the group that we should be well covered in this area whether it's in Cascadia or the Sierra Foothills or the Coastal Ranges.

Another idea might be to have multiple strains of bees in our care, from a few wild Africanized hives out in some walnut tree on the back 40 to delicate European strains that must be special ordered and safeguarded in a fenced off clearing. Genetic diversity within bees would have the same costs and benefits as genetic diversity in anything else. You or someone else already mentioned ecological diversity in the form of carpenter bees, mason bees, bumble bees, syrphid flies etc etc. Think of it as triple and quadruple redundancy across all levels of function.

[Zardoz]

NBC Nightly News will do a feature on this tonight. Let's see what they have to say about it.

[Venerye]

Thanks dohboi, but I'm hardly an expert. I work with flies on a semi-professional level... other insects are more of a hobby at the moment.

From what I know of American foulbrood, it's a bacterial disease which is endemic to the Americas but variants exist worldwide I think. The disease is highly infectious amongst colony members and will spread to other colonies/areas via hive robbing or swarming. Prior to the discovery of antibiotics, the only defenses beekeepers had against the disease was to burn all equipment and destroy the bees. I'm not sure how prevalent the use of antibiotics is/was in apiculture. You might like to read this, though (not an endorsement, but food for thought.)
Joe Rowlands - GMO's and antibiotic resistance
Personally I'm not surprised at the "veil of secrecy" accompanying GMO research. Read a copy of "Seeds of Deception" if you haven't already. Again, not saying that GMO's are to blame - there's no way to know without sound, independent research.

The neonicotinoids are not obvious culprits. There is some evidence that they may be influencing bee orientation but more research has to be done. In a perfect world they would be removed from the market until more conclusive results were reached, but that won't happen... Hence my depressed signature = "if we can do it we will, whatever the consequence!"

Re: the mites, no really effective control exists for mites without weakening or killing the colony, or tainting the honey. Experts advocate the goal being "keep the mite population at manageable levels" rather than total eradication.

The people I work with who have laundry lists of degrees and qualifications (in flies, mind you) don't have an attitude of "the end of the world" with the honeybee issue. I'd say there's a low level of alarm. In conversation the impression I get is that problems have been present for more than 10 years but the honeybee population is still relatively stable, the other experts are working on it so why don't you ask them, etc. For the most part people prefer to keep to their own little areas of expertise without venturing too much into other experts' "territory."

[Venerye]

NBC Nightly News will do a feature on this tonight. Let's see what they have to say about it.

If someone catches this a summary would be appreciated. No television here...

[dohboi]

Thanks, venerye. By the way, that's some awesome looking bug on your avatar. Some kind of Preying Mantis?

[Lore]

NBC Nightly News just restated the mystery.

[Zardoz]

NBC Nightly News just restated the mystery.

Dang. Too bad. Thanks.

[Tuike]

Yahoo: Mysterious disappearance of US bees creating a buzz

A quote from the articles end,

The fact that other bees or parasites seem to shun the emptied hives raises suspicions that some kind of toxin or chemical is keeping the insects away, Cox-Foster said. Those bees found in such devastated colonies also all seem to be infected with multiple micro-organisms, many of which are known to be behind stress-related illness in bees. Scientists working to unravel the mysteries behind CCD believe a new pathogen may be the cause, or a new kind of chemical product which could be weakening the insects' immune systems. The finger of suspicion is being pointed at agriculture pesticides such as the widely-used neonicotinoids, which are already known to be poisonous to bees. France saw a huge fall in its bee population in the 1990s, blamed on the insecticide Gaucho which has now been banned in the country.

[antspice]

Hello everybuddy, The most of us are not used to thinking of doomscenarios beyond the consequences of the PO possibility.
Honeybees are responsible for "1 in 3" bites of our the average modern human diet. Something is killing the bees however. Bees are disappearing and are in sharp decline or on the scale of the evolution theory dying out instantly.
It might not seem much but 1/3 of the food eaten is pollinated food and without pollination much less nutritionous food. We can't live on just corn and potatoes.

Some blame GM crops, some blame mobile phones and someone blames sunspots. To quote Einstein: "No bees, no pollination. No pollination, no crops. No crops, no food. In four years, no man"

Some links
link1
link2
link3

Possibly in tandem with nuclear resource wars, PO and fascist governments and perhaps the book of Revelation too. What a strange world.

[Newsseeker]

So the honey bee has become a canary bird of sorts. Wonder why?

[Dreamtwister]

I've been watching this with some interest. The latest consensus seems to be that *something* has been damaging the bees' immune systems, rendering them defenseless against infections that would normally be relatively mild. Instead of a few dozen bees at a single colony dying, entire hives are being wiped out. Not only that, but the honey that's been left behind is sitting completely untouched by other insects and the hives themselves are sitting empty. That is highly unusual.

We can't live on just corn and potatoes.

Actually, at this point, the average North American diet is almost completely based on corn. Even the meat is corn-fed. But fear not! Since those dead bees aren't pollinating the corn either, it won't be a problem for long.

[Baldwin]

Actually, at this point, the average North American diet is almost completely based on corn. Even the meat is corn-fed. But fear not! Since those dead bees aren't pollinating the corn either, it won't be a problem for long.

If it's not corn directly or corn fed meat as you said, it is foods reliant on corn syrup...of which there are many.