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THE Bankruptcy Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby SD_Scott » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 20:01:39

That's piss funny. There's this guy at work, he's a gung ho ex-military officer that dishes out more crap than ten people. Married with three kids and spends a fortune on his crotch rocket. All with credit cards. I slimed him about three months ago by telling him about PO and convincing him he would be an indentured servant if he didn't file now. He's one of those 3000%. I love PO. What a great weapon.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 20:21:52

SD_Scott wrote:That's piss funny. There's this guy at work, he's a gung ho ex-military officer that dishes out more crap than ten people. Married with three kids and spends a fortune on his crotch rocket. All with credit cards. I slimed him about three months ago by telling him about PO and convincing him he would be an indentured servant if he didn't file now. He's one of those 3000%. I love PO. What a great weapon.


Jesus, how much can you possibly do to a bike?
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Falconoffury » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 20:30:59

The bad part about the new laws is that lenders are less accountable for making poor choices about to whom they lend. They can lend indiscriminantly because they will always have the new laws on which to fall back. In fact, they want to lend to people who won't be able to pay it back. They would be perfectly happy to collect interest payments for as long as possible.

You can say that it's good that consumers are getting their "get of jail free card" taken away, but this card is just given to the lenders. I know that nobody is holding a gun to the heads of people who take loans, but you have to admit that this grants lenders far more latitude to abuse the weaknesses and stupidity of the masses.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby some_guy282 » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 20:49:24

SD_Scott wrote:That's piss funny. There's this guy at work, he's a gung ho ex-military officer that dishes out more crap than ten people. Married with three kids and spends a fortune on his crotch rocket. All with credit cards. I slimed him about three months ago by telling him about PO and convincing him he would be an indentured servant if he didn't file now. He's one of those 3000%. I love PO. What a great weapon.


I'm surprised he even believed you.
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule. – Nietzsche

Time makes more converts than reason. – Thomas Paine

History is a set of lies agreed upon. – Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Chocky » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 20:50:58

They will be living without credit for a long time. No credit card = no online purchases, no rental cars, can't book a hotel room, on and on.


Is it really that hard having a credit card and not using the credit function? I use my card all the time, but only if I actually have the money to pay it off immediately.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Chichis » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 21:02:09

Debit cards work just like credit cards nowadays if you've never used one. Visa and Mastercard stamped on them, they just deduct from the checking account instead of credit. I haven't gotten a credit card yet, almost 22.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Gary » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 21:33:49

So, look at it this way. Enron....Worldcom....Northwest Airlines....many hige corporations spend and spend and lie and lie.....and file bankruptcy.

People who have worked hard for years get left with chump change instead of the promised pension. We taxpayers get stuck with footing the bill for the partial pensions that are meted out. "shrunken men stuffed up with greed" run away with the loot after they follow the "wreck it and run" business management model.

And our government does "wreck it and run" or "wreck-it-and-be-raptured while-the-damned-suffer-eternally" management by bankrupting us even further.

So why shouldn't individuals file for bankruptcy? When you consider that a large number of folks who file bankruptcy have had recent huge medical bills that they will never be able to pay, is that so bad? Granted, some individual bankruptcy may come from sheer irresponsibility, but there are other things that factor in to some cases.

We won't see Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security or even most of the pensions people believe they have coming to them. Corrupt crony capitalism has transformed the economy into a tool for enriching a few at the expense of the many. Government has been transformed into the security division of "the business."

Some financial mercy is shown to individuals -- and yes, it is abused at times. So-called conservatives whine about this -- is it jealousy? Recall the Parable of the Prodigal son!

Meanwhile: extraordinarily wealthy pirates parade as captains of industry while robbing nations dry. Recall the Gospel story of a beggar despised by the rich man...but then how the tables were turned one day.

So-called moral and conservative and responsible people never seem to cry out about the crimes of the robber barons.

Let a poor man or woman sin -- or even appear to do wrong -- and the hoards descend to throw stones and demand death. Odd. "And so it goes..."

"God built the church, the Devil built the chapel and the Devil knows the Bible like the back of his hand..."

"And so it goes..."

-- Rejoicing in wealth -- I just ordered two new Organicengines SUVs to build cargo platforms on! Anyone want to buy a used pedicab? Wealth can be measured by your fun-meter better than by dollar signs!
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 22:12:58

Gary wrote: When you consider that a large number of folks who file bankruptcy have had recent huge medical bills that they will never be able to pay, is that so bad? Granted, some individual bankruptcy may come from sheer irresponsibility, but there are other things that factor in to some cases.


I suggest you read the reform rulings. As I understand it exceptions still exist, medical being one of them noted.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby falser » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 22:14:43

I've lived in the US for 5 years now without a credit card. A debit card, living within my means, and keeping track of my expenses works just fine for everyday needs. Buying a house might be a problem. Just a few days ago I finally got my first credit card. I wanted to get a card and "establish credit" before credit itself becomes a luxury (and to impress the ladies, look like I'm rich, whatever).

It's true that lenders only want to lend to people who can't pay back their debts. Every card I've applied for has been denied, yet I've never been in debt, earn a decent salary etc. I had to fax a copy of my pay stub before they'd even let me have their basic entry level card. It's not even enough to cover my monthly expenses. Yet my roommate who already has 3 cards maxxed out gets pre-approved cards in the mail all the time.

Want a history of the credit card industry, watch this program:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... edit/view/

Some very interesting stuff there for anybody who uses credit card debt as a way of life.

I think this new law is a good thing. It forces personal responsibility. I can understand medical expenses and whatnot - that's the price for private health care. But for those who buy a gigantic house, $100,000 worth of home additions, bigscreen tvs, and Mercedes cars... to the flames of hell you go. Credit card companies are as evil as phone companies but they don't deserve to be on the raw end of consumer abuse. The day of reckoning arrives on Monday.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 22:51:31

SD_Scott wrote:That's piss funny. There's this guy at work, he's a gung ho ex-military officer that dishes out more crap than ten people. Married with three kids and spends a fortune on his crotch rocket. All with credit cards. I slimed him about three months ago by telling him about PO and convincing him he would be an indentured servant if he didn't file now. He's one of those 3000%. I love PO. What a great weapon.


Exactly. The way to talk to a conservative, is to talk about money and them. Why waste your time trying to convince somebody of the lies in foreign policy, or that Bush is rascist, when you can really hit at home when you talk about money.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Specop_007 » Fri 14 Oct 2005, 23:13:18

GrizzAdams wrote:
SD_Scott wrote:That's piss funny. There's this guy at work, he's a gung ho ex-military officer that dishes out more crap than ten people. Married with three kids and spends a fortune on his crotch rocket. All with credit cards. I slimed him about three months ago by telling him about PO and convincing him he would be an indentured servant if he didn't file now. He's one of those 3000%. I love PO. What a great weapon.


Exactly. The way to talk to a conservative, is to talk about money and them. Why waste your time trying to convince somebody of the lies in foreign policy, or that Bush is rascist, when you can really hit at home when you talk about money.


Maybe because those frist two points are utter bullshit dug up by the Looney left. That might be it......Just maybe.......
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 04:47:03

If it is bullshit or not is beside the point, those are just hypothetical statements. My point is, that most conservatives will be more likely to listen to reasoning when you start talking about something that is more directly related to them, and not other abstract issues.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Specop_007 » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 05:38:13

GrizzAdams wrote:If it is bullshit or not is beside the point, those are just hypothetical statements. My point is, that most conservatives will be more likely to listen to reasoning when you start talking about something that is more directly related to them, and not other abstract issues.


You know, I agree 100%.
The best way to reach a conservative is to talk about real, concrete issues.
And as you imply the best way to reach a liberal is to talk about abstract, fictional made up flowery stuff that really has no bearing in reality.

Very good point indeed.

:)
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Pops » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 06:30:23

Oh quit with red blue crap already.


A family member declared bankruptcy several several years ago, he said he got more CC offers after than before. Since you can’t (or at least then couldn’t) file again for 7 years they have you by the short hairs.

As Falcon said, the lenders can be less discriminating than ever now.

My prediction is this law will come back to bite THEM in the butt, just like S&L deregulation did and the current wave of mortgage giveaways is about too.

On second thought, it will come back to bite taxpayers since we’ll bail out the lenders.

On third thought; see below...
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby GrizzAdams » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 06:31:01

Bad news indeed...
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby FireJack » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 09:23:51

With the current bankruptcy laws, what exactly does happen? Is it just that you can't use your credit cards for a while?
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby BabyPeanut » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 09:33:21

FireJack wrote:With the current bankruptcy laws, what exactly does happen? Is it just that you can't use your credit cards for a while?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/bankruptcy.html
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby Gary » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 10:07:19

I live in the city. Married, two kids to support. If we use credit cards, they get paid off at the end of the month. We have no debt at all. no car payments or card payments. i intend to keep it that way for now.

The CC companies have given us a line of credit that I guess exceeds our annual income. CC companies send us new offers for cards all the time. We tear the offers up and save them to light a fire in the fireplace.

The debt net is cast pretty wide to snare us all. Another example of "one ring to rule them all and in the darkness bind them" I suppose.

Consent is manufactured, consumers are abused, and consumers often give back the same attitude and behaviour exhibited by the corporate leaders who have the resources to buy lawyers, lobbyists, legislators, and laws. The problem is that most people who are snared in the debt net do not have the means to evade or change the law to suit them.

The larger implications of this all have yet to play out. I agree with pops that this is not a "red/blue" issue, nor are we able to predict the future. the probabilities are interesting, though.

To refer back to the LOR metaphor again: once one puts on one of the rings, life is reduced to a kind of slavery. No matter the power or even relative luxury one may find for a time, the scramble is on and will only end through strong decision to change or through death.

Debt seems like bondage to me.

We are contemplating the purchase of a house. My wife is anxious to buy this spring. I wonder if we wait awhile longer....will we be able to buy a house while incurring smaller debt? Or will higher interest rates cancel out any benefit of lower prices? (This might be off-topic and specific enough to start a different thread -- what do ya' think?)
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby EnemyCombatant » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 10:26:29

There is never a 'good' time to buy a house. Buy it when you are ready.

I believe prices will come down, but rates will go up. The key to buying property is getting owner financing, versus financing through a bank. If there is an upcoming housing bubble and people are desparate to sell, perhaps you can look for owner financing type of deals. You can offer them a very good price, perhaps above market value for their property, but it's well worth it because the loan is not on your credit and you can work a deal on the interest rate.

This is my strategy as a real estate investor.
Now why didn't I take the blue pill.
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Re: 3,000% more US bankrupties in Oct

Unread postby jmacdaddio » Sat 15 Oct 2005, 10:35:55

Last night I ran into a friend who earns her living by showing new houses in suburban developments. She's currently showing homes in a 40 house development - only 12 have sold so far, and this is in suburban NJ about 60 mins outside of NYC. Last year the development would have been sold out, this year they can't get customers. My friend thinks the crash is beginning, and she's in the business - the biggest real estate bulls are always the people who are in the industry.
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