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THE Bailout Thread pt 3 (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby InToWishin » Thu 25 Dec 2008, 16:22:48

USVI diocese loses $2 million in Madoff scheme

By JUDI SHIMEL – Dec 25, 2008

CHARLOTTE AMALIE, U.S. Virgin Islands (AP) — Roman Catholic schools in the U.S. Virgin Islands will have to turn away parents seeking financial aid for their children because of losses in a multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme, church officials said Wednesday.

The Diocese of St. Thomas lost nearly $2 million on investments made with disgraced Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff, most of which represented endowment funds for youngsters at two Catholic elementary schools in St. Croix, the poorest of the U.S. Virgin Islands.

"The schools continue to function," Monsignor Jerome Feudjio said. "However, people who knocked on the door looking for financial aid, they may have to look elsewhere."

...snip...


[flash width=425 height=344]http://www.youtube.com/v/6PLIBJCnBVo[/flash]
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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 01:16:39

InToWishin wrote:Roman Catholic schools in the U.S. Virgin Islands will have to turn away parents seeking financial aid for their children because of losses in a multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme, church officials said Wednesday.

The Diocese of St. Thomas lost nearly $2 million on investments made with disgraced Wall Street financier Bernard Madoff, most of which represented endowment funds for youngsters at two Catholic elementary schools in St. Croix, the poorest of the U.S. Virgin Islands.

"The schools continue to function," Monsignor Jerome Feudjio said. "However, people who knocked on the door looking for financial aid, they may have to look elsewhere."

Don't worry, <B>Jewish Philanthropy</B> will come to the rescue.
Oh, wait, they only help Gods Chosen People.

But the pope is loaded with cash.
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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby InToWishin » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 04:53:38

Keith_McClary wrote:Oh, wait, they only help Gods Chosen People.


Help?

Madoff's alleged scam touches NYC suburb synagogue

Newsday.com
December 18, 2008

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - The fallout from money manager Bernard Madoff's (MAY-dawf's) alleged $50 billion Ponzi scheme has reached one of suburban Westchester County's largest synagogues.

The co-presidents of Congregation Kol Ami (kohl-a-ME'), a Reform synagogue in White Plains, sent an e-mail to members Tuesday saying that Madoff's firm held about $650,000 of the temple's capital reserves.

...snip...


With help like this...who needs abuse?

The N.Y. Post looks at Fifth Avenue Synagogue

By Ami Eden · December 24, 2008

Ira Rennert, chairman of the synagogue's board and owner of the priciest mansion in the Hamptons, had $200 million staked in Madoff's fund, Fortune magazine reported.

He was one of at least 10 synagogue heavy hitters fleeced in the scandal, said a prominent congregant.

...snip...

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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 06:45:44

Gotta love this Tag Line at the end of todays WSJ report on the Bernie Case:

The publicity surrounding the Madoff scandal has sparked a half-dozen SEC investigations into other alleged Ponzi schemes, the person familiar with the probe said. Investors are taking closer note of red flags such as promised returns that seem too good to be true, and some are bringing their concerns to the SEC, this person said.


This is a Missile with Multiple Warheads.

We here on Peak Oil know the whole game is a Ponzi Scheme, but most other folks don't know that. We also know that starting in November, rendemption requests from Hedge Funds basicaly went through the roof as the outrageously rich were seeking to get the hell OUT of the markets before they lost it all. Further we know that numerous Hedge Funds have suspended redmeptions Check out this list of Hedge funds that have suspended redemptions from the Hedge Fund Implode-o-meter:

http://hf-implode.com/ailing.html

Now, if you were a mega rich Private Jet type and you told your broker to Liquidate, you want your money and he says "No sorry, bank is closed today", what would you do? You would call up your Congressman who you donated $5M to his campaign and tell him to get the damn SEC INVESTIGATING these guys cause "I WANT my MONEY!!!!!" LOL.

My guess here is that Bernie isn't the last one here that is going to be caught with his pants down. SIX more investigations coming down the pipe here? That should be entertaining.

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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby InToWishin » Fri 26 Dec 2008, 07:21:29

ReverseEngineer wrote:Now, if you were a mega rich Private Jet type and you told your broker to Liquidate, you want your money and he says "No sorry, bank is closed today", what would you do? You would call up your Congressman who you donated $5M to his campaign and tell him to get the damn SEC INVESTIGATING these guys cause "I WANT my MONEY!!!!!" LOL.


EEEEEEE! EEEEEEEE!
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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby bratticus » Mon 29 Dec 2008, 16:37:07

Accused Swindler Madoff's Home Burglarized

Investor Remains Under House Arrest

WPBF TV

POSTED: 3:40 pm EST December 29, 2008
UPDATED: 4:14 pm EST December 29, 2008

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Palm Beach police said Wednesday that the man accused of ripping off billions from investors was ripped off himself.

Palm Beach police said burglars recently broke into Bernard Madoff's posh Palm Beach estate on Dec. 19 and made off with a pool statue worth more than $10,000.
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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby Novus » Mon 29 Dec 2008, 17:06:10

ReverseEngineer wrote:
We here on Peak Oil know the whole game is a Ponzi Scheme, but most other folks don't know that. We also know that starting in November, rendemption requests from Hedge Funds basicaly went through the roof as the outrageously rich were seeking to get the hell OUT of the markets before they lost it all. Further we know that numerous Hedge Funds have suspended redmeptions Check out this list of Hedge funds that have suspended redemptions from the Hedge Fund Implode-o-meter:

Reverse Engineer


Madoff very well could be the spark that sets the whole thing off. The Ponzi Scheme is all based on confidence so if doubt seeps in the whole scheme collapses as everyone pulls their money and there is not enough funds to pay everyone. That is when the SHTF and the banks and world stock markets close forever.
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Re: Surprise surprise - bailout talk for Madoff victims

Unread postby bratticus » Tue 30 Dec 2008, 08:04:29

Credit Suisse clients may have lost $925.9 mln on Madoff: report

Reuters
Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:23am GMT

ZURICH (Reuters) - Credit Suisse clients may have lost up to 1 billion Swiss francs ($925.9 million) on investments connected to accused swindler Bernard Madoff, newspaper Sonntag reported on Sunday.

... skip ...

Funds managed by Swiss banks have been prominent victims of Madoff, who is accused of running a global Ponzi scheme in which earlier investors are paid off with investments from newer clients

So much for the mythical "Swiss Bank Account."
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Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 31 Dec 2008, 20:52:35

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Connecticut lawmaker Frank Nicastro sees saving the local newspaper as his duty. But others think he and his colleagues are setting a worrisome precedent for government involvement in the U.S. press.

Nicastro represents Connecticut's 79th assembly district, which includes Bristol, a city of about 61,000 people outside Hartford, the state capital. Its paper, The Bristol Press, may fold within days, along with The Herald in nearby New Britain.

That is because publisher Journal Register, in danger of being crushed under hundreds of millions of dollars of debt, says it cannot afford to keep them open anymore.

Nicastro and fellow legislators want the papers to survive, and petitioned the state government to do something about it. "The media is a vitally important part of America," he said, particularly local papers that cover news ignored by big papers and television and radio stations.

To some experts, that sounds like a bailout, a word that resurfaced this year after the U.S. government agreed to give hundreds of billions of dollars to the automobile and financial sectors.

Relying on government help raises ethical questions for the press, whose traditional role has been to operate free from government influence as it tries to hold politicians accountable to the people who elected them. Even some publishers desperate for help are wary of this route.

Providing government support can muddy that mission, said Paul Janensch, a journalism professor at Quinnipiac University in Connecticut, and a former reporter and editor.

"You can't expect a watchdog to bite the hand that feeds it," he said.

Link

I'm conflicted on this issue. On the one hand, giving taxpayer money to publishers who print newspapers that taxpayers choose not to read sounds ludicrous on its face.

On the other hand, I think it really is unfortunate that we're losing our local papers. Without my local paper, I'd have no idea whatsoever about what goes on in my local area, unless I witnessed it personally or heard about it word of mouth. The old fashioned grapevine may work for small towns, but my metro area has almost a million people -- and our two newspapers are downsizing and struggling.

A larger issue is that not only are local papers folding, but the others remaining are continuing to cut back. Fewer reporters means fewer feet on the street geting stories.. so these papers end up existing just to distribute Best Buy ads.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby mefistofeles » Wed 31 Dec 2008, 20:56:40

I'm conflicted on this issue. On the one hand, giving taxpayer money to publishers who print newspapers that taxpayers choose not to read sounds ludicrous on its face


I'm not conflicted at all why shouldn't they get a bailout it seems that every other industry is getting a bailout? Fannie/Freddie got bailed out ,AIG,GM and Chrsyler are getting a bailout so why shouldn't the papers?

In fact walking further along this line of reasoning why shouldn't every business that's in trouble get a bailout? We've already set a precedent why not carry out to its logical conclusion? Why not bail out Sal's Pizza or the local Ford dealer,heck my local bike store closed I want them bailed out too!

Unfortunately once you start bailing out enough people it becomes impossible to say no.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby Daniel_Plainview » Wed 31 Dec 2008, 21:04:15

Sixstrings wrote:

I'm conflicted on this issue. On the one hand, giving taxpayer money to publishers who print newspapers that taxpayers choose not to read sounds ludicrous on its face.

On the other hand, I think it really is unfortunate that we're losing our local papers. Without my local paper, I'd have no idea whatsoever about what goes on in my local area, unless I witnessed it personally or heard about it word of mouth. The old fashioned grapevine may work for small towns, but my metro area has almost a million people -- and our two newspapers are downsizing and struggling.

A larger issue is that not only are local papers folding, but the others remaining are continuing to cut back. Fewer reporters means fewer feet on the street geting stories.. so these papers end up existing just to distribute Best Buy ads.


Newsprint is a dinosaur, and bailing out dinosaurs makes no economic sense, especially amid severe budgetary constraints.

If enough people believe that having a local newspaper serves a useful social and informational function, then they can form a nonprofit entity that controls the newspaper, and donate $$$ to this nonprofit entity to their heart's content.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 31 Dec 2008, 21:12:13

Newspapers aren't in trouble because of the economy. They're in trouble because of A: the internet and B: the difficulty of competing with all the mega-giant conglomerates that congress keeps allowing to be created. So I so no bail-out. If the government wanted to do something to help local papers, it could start bringing anti-trust actions against newspaper chains.
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Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 31 Dec 2008, 22:59:59

I was in newspapers before there was an internet. Practically before there were computers. I left newspapers for computers, for the 'paperless' office home etc, because newspapers cut down trees.

The New York Times Sunday Edition requires 100 acres of forest in newsprint. That is 100 acres of chickadee nests (and squashed chickadees), CO2 aquisition, solitude, and mean nasty mountain lions.

My dad is a bigshot in newspapers and I still hope they fail.

bailout? bail this [looks down, and points derisively] out.
Our great-great-grandparents burned wood and coal. Our grandparents burned oil. We burn natural gas. Our children will burn their furniture. :badgrin:
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby benzoil » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 00:17:09

I agree with everything that's been said so far, but...

What happens when no one reports on the government? I read an apocryphal (sp?) story about newspaper cutbacks last year: Local paper cut it's government beat reporters from two to one. Once they found this out, the local municipalities moved their meeting nights to the same night so that the reporter couldn't be there.

Yes, newspapers are dinosaurs, but who else to fulfill the necessary function of informing the citizens of a democracy? It creeps me out to think what happens when petty officials think no one is watching.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 00:36:22

benzoil wrote:
Yes, newspapers are dinosaurs, but who else to fulfill the necessary function of informing the citizens of a democracy?


What Democracy are you talking about?

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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby benzoil » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 00:48:36

ReverseEngineer wrote:
benzoil wrote:
Yes, newspapers are dinosaurs, but who else to fulfill the necessary function of informing the citizens of a democracy?


What Democracy are you talking about?

Reverse Engineer


Point taken. The theoretical one we live in. Lord knows it's not perfect, but making less information available doesn't help it any.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby UltraViciousBudgie » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 03:12:40

Bail out Western Union's telegram division as well. Oh, yeah, they don't do telegrams anymore.

Seriously I don't like seeing local papers go under, but like the auto hogs they must change their business models to survive. Move completely online for starters.
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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 04:33:55

Obviously the free flow of information is essential to a Democracy, and at least in the early day of the riting press just after Gutenberg invented the thing, leaflets and flyers for alternative viewpoints started popping up all over the place. Martin Luther of course used Gutenberg's invention to undermine the Catholic Church. The Pope was a little slow to catch on in terms of controlling that medium.

By the time the USA was founded, Newspapers were no longer merely an infomation medium, they were a BUSINESS. Advertising and the corruption of the Profit Motive infiltrated quickly, and certainly Willam Randolf Hearst was the Rupert Murdoch of his day, and really only sporadically has there been proper reporting in the MSM, of whatever time period. It all gets spun out, one side is played against the other and the arguments ensue, and MOST things come out around 50-50, for every argument I make Ludi or Mos will come up with a counter to it. There is ALWAYS somebody out there who wil naysay an argument. So really, those in control fo the media do not have to control EVERYBODY, all they really have to do in a democratic society is manipulate the numbers at the margins. You saw this most clearly in the election of GWB the first time, when Gore won the popular vote but TPTB messed with the Florida results and got Georgie in.

Modern media in the form of TV news is so ridiculously juvenile and skewed its almost not worth discussing, except for the fact its the major source of information for most of the idiots out there. The internet gives you the ILLUSION of a free flow of information, but of course it is not either. Google searches bring up only what Google tells them to bring up, I have many times known the direct address of an alternative news site which NEVER comes up on a Google search, no matter how closely you match the search terms.

The local Newspaper generally is the only source you have for things going on in your community, but of course the internet is pushing them out of business, and since peopel generally do not read much anymore, they cannot even go online with a paperless version of the product to stay PROFITABLE. How profitable is PeakOil.com anyhow? I bet its funded mostly out of the pockets of those who set up this site. Maybe the ad revenue contributes something. I highly doubt its a big money maker though, and the Reporters here all work for NOTHING.

If you accept the idea that with the breakdown of the monetary system the profitability of the internet goes down the toilet, just WHERE will you get any information? From the TV? From Rush Limbaugh on the Radio?

Newsprint no doubt cuts down a lot of trees, and as the population exploded, printing so many copies on paper definitely is and was a bad thing for the environment. However, so is running power plants to run all the servers and all the home computers. Getting information out takes ENERGY, no matter how you go about it. In a profit driven society, energy takes MONEY, and so the information is controlled by those who control the energy.

In the spin down here, all sources of information are taking a hit. This is one of the main reasons I forsee a breakup fo the One to the Many. Its impossible to maintain any cohesive system without good information flow, and that is another system here falling apart, at all levels. The most IMPORTANT one right now is probably your Local Information source. Possibly one of the best things you could do in terms of Planning for the Future and being active would be to encourage the development of a wide area network for your community OFF the internet, powered by its own servers with its own source of electricity. Without that, getting the information out to even your local communtiy when things get bad will be tough. Your Local Newspaper won't do the job, that is for sure. Like everyone else, they will be Out of Bizness.

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Re: Should newspapers get a federal bailout?

Unread postby PeakOilPrincess » Thu 01 Jan 2009, 10:41:06

Should newspapers get a federal bailout?



Answer: NO!!!!
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Steel Industry Wants Bailout?

Unread postby mattduke » Fri 02 Jan 2009, 00:15:04

If it works for banks, and autos, it will work for steel.

nytimes
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