[Twilight]

"The Middle East is currently recording some of the fastest-growing energy consumption rates in the world and, increasingly, we need to think like consumers as much as producers. Put simply, domestic consumption of oil and gas is absorbing an increasing proportion of our production." ~Sultan Ahmad Al Muhairi, Abu Dhabi National Oil Company

Link.

Translated: We have internal demand to satisfy now. We are going to try conservation, how well is that working for you?

[shortonoil]

As the price of oil increases, the more prosperous the citizenry of the exporters become; resulting in their using more oil. This decreases the oil they export, driving up prices further. Because oil is highly inelastic, this could progress for quit a while - or until the Western World goes bankrupt.

"High oil prices have brought with them massive cost inflation at a time when we are investing heavily in new oil and gas production capacity. Large-scale projects are costing double, and in some cases more than three times the price we would have expected to pay just a couple of years ago."

I wonder if they realize that these increases will continue until they can’t afford to expand capacity further. The cost of energy, in energy terms is increasing (declining ERoEI), and not all of that cost can be passed on to the consumer (Econ 101). They should be going out of the oil business, about the time we are going out of business in general.

[cudabachi]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Construction work on the world's first zero-carbon city housing 50,000 people in a car-free environment will begin in the oil-rich Gulf emirate of Abu Dhabi next month, the developers said on Monday.

In Masdar City, which will be run entirely on renewable energy including solar power to exploit the desert emirate's near constant supply of sunshine, people will be able to move around in automated pods.

"This is a place that has no carbon footprint and will not hurt the planet in any way," Khaled Awad, director of the Masdar project's property development unit of the Abu Dhabi Future Energy Company (ADFEC), told AFP.

"At the same time the city will offer the highest quality of life possible for its residents," he said on the sidelines of the World Future Energy Summit in Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates (UAE).

Once completed in 2013, residents will be able to move around the six-square-kilometre (2.4-square-mile) city using a light railway line and a series of automated transport pods.

"They're like a horizontal elevator. You just say where you want to go, and it takes you there," Awad said of the pods.

[joeltrout]

Only possible because they have more money then they know what to do with. They understand oil will run out sometime in the future and they want to wane their country off of their dependence on it. Smart play.

joeltrout

[gnm]

I suppose they will be growing all their food in the fertile farmland of Abu Dhabi then.....

-G

[mos6507]

Sounds like a big EPCOT experiment to me. Hopefully it will have some positive influence as a working experiment.

[mekrob]

:roll: I suppose they will be growing all their food in the fertile farmland of Abu Dhabi then.....

-G

Couldn't it be possible, with all of their oil wealth, that they could simply buy organic matter, seeds, soil, etc? And then use massive greenhouses around the city to get their food? I imagine that some very soil-rich, very stupid nation (looking at you Bush and co.) or nations would be willing to trade their food for gasoline (as seen in corn to ethanol).

That way, they could use their renewable energy to distill and sanitize their water from the Gulf to use for irrigation, and with some clever techniques, this process could continue for quite a while.

[gnm]

Couldn't it be possible, with all of their oil wealth, that they could simply buy organic matter, seeds, soil, etc? And then use massive greenhouses around the city to get their food? I imagine that some very soil-rich, very stupid nation (looking at you Bush and co.) or nations would be willing to trade their food for gasoline (as seen in corn to ethanol).

That way, they could use their renewable energy to distill and sanitize their water from the Gulf to use for irrigation, and with some clever techniques, this process could continue for quite a while.

So they sell lots of oil to build "green" city - how the hell is that carbon neutral?

Then they could import dirt and or food by selling lots of oil - how the hell is that carbon neutral?

I suppose they will use kites and electric tractors to move all this dirt?
(btw I agree with you re Bush I think he'd sell his own grandma if he saw a profit in it)

Then they use alternative energy to distill sea water for farming? Dude that takes a LOT of power.

Never mind all the oil derived equipment and building materials (glass?) this place will be put together with.

What a bunch of greenwashed BS.

-G

[mekrob]

What a bunch of greenwashed BS.

I'll agree with you that to get there would require a lot of oil use, but even if you moved to a green community, you'll still be using oil to get to that community. So now is that community not green?

It's carbon neutral as in not the initial input, but the eventual state that results which could become carbon neutral over the long term, not the short term. Don't become so obsessed with the short term to condemn any long term goals or achievements.

Never mind all the oil derived equipment and building materials (glass?) this place will be put together with.

But the point is, in the long term, the energy production from the solar and wind and possibly geothermal could produce enough energy to transport the water to the distillers, the distilled water to the farms and enough energy to produce any materials needed for replacements. There is a vast amount of energy that is around us; only irrational pessimism stands in the way (God, I sound like JD).

I think they may have overshot for the population goal of several tens of thousands of citizens. I think they should have tried much smaller, like 5-6 thousand, which itself would be a daunting task.

[gnm]

Well the way I see it traveling to such a place could be accomplished a number of ways. But if it requires a great deal of oil derived money or goods to produce a "green" city then no its not carbon neutral. Its really unlikely that they could continue to run such a place without continuous infusions from the outside via oil money and or oil derived goods and thus its not a "sustainable" city or even a model that can be reproduced time and again. Its just a green bauble in someones BS cap.

REAL solutions would involve cities which could be duplicated with little money, local materials and run sustainably via their own food and energy production. I have no problem with some goods being traded for things which are not found locally but if your only item to trade is oil then you are not carbon neutral.

-G

[mekrob]

but if your only item to trade is oil then you are not carbon neutral.

Like I said, they have vast amounts of solar power at hand. Couple that with either manual labor or wind energy, and you have enough energy to transport seawater to the solar distillers, which distill the water which can then be sold. There is going to be significant areas experiencing drought over the next few decades, America included. It's quite possible to trade that water as well. Water can be distilled for 6-7 cents per gallon and in the desert, this cost could dramatically decrease with the greater amount of sunlight available, not to mention the vast areas that are near the water source (reducing energy input).

There is much more than just oil in the Middle East; much of it is very green (potentially): water, electricity, etc.

But if it requires a great deal of oil derived money or goods to produce a "green" city then no its not carbon neutral.

You could require a trillion barrels of oil to produce something. But that doesn't mean jack shit if you are able to use that trillion barrels and sequester 100 billion barrels of oil per year for an indefinite amount of time. It's not just the input, but the "output" (or, better-worded, result).

[Jupidu]

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/Projec ... fault.aspx

From this link you can see that the city area is about as big as the planned green area around it. In the short description you will find the very important phrase "zero waste".
How?
I think the city is designed like ancient big citys in desert areas when no oil-using vehicles wheighing several tones were obstructing the streets.
The houses in these old citys where often built by dried mud bricks and could reach up to 30-40 ft (several floors).
You can see small canals flowing in the streets with high walls (little direct sun shine = low temperatures). The flowing water has an additional cooling effect (no need of air conditioning).
Several weeks ago i saw an interview of a german radio station in the TV. An Architect or a civil engineer was reporting about his work. One of his present projects was - i'm quite sure - Masdar City. He designed the sewage system!
This is the solution for getting water in the hot and dry climate with a very low investition of money and energy (using the power of nature) and this solution will last forever.
I think the architect is following the solution which pops up now and then in the centurys and which is described e.g. here:

"Design A New City"
http://soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/01 ... 27ch7.html

The same principle is practiced today near Cairo. The sewage water is leaded (there only by gravity?) to a tree farm or a young forest. I think it's only sewage water from households (no chemicals, no heavy metal).
The trees are absorbing the water and the dirt, holding back the dirt. The dirt is processed by billions and billions of bacteria (afterwards it's humus or good soil = free fertilizer). The cleaned water streams in the underground to the next river. This water can be used then again as drinking water.
The trees have several additional positive effects: They are cooling the air by vaporisation, in a few years you get a lot of wood and the trees are the living room for serveral animals (= the more species the healthier the ecosphere).

[Roccland]

NEW YORK, Aug 25 (Reuters) - A United Arab Emirates bank sued Morgan Stanley (MS.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), the Bank of New York Mellon Corp (BK.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and ratings agencies Moody's and S&P on Monday, accusing them of fraud in operating a fund that collapsed in the U.S. credit crisis.

Wonder if they will be coming back for seconds...?

I don't think so.

Wonder who the next greater fool is gonna be...

Or is there one.

Again...

I don't think so.

[Micki]

This sound so much like what Jim Sinclair has been saying.
"What OTC derivatives and operating losses do not do to financial entities litigation will."

Just surprising there hasn't been more noice on the phoney AAA ratings.

[MrBill]

Suing and getting the judgment you want are two different things.
Getting the judgment you want and collecting are two different things. Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank will be treated as a professional counterpart (versus a non-professional) or as an equal, and therefore should have been aware of the risks of such an investment. Therefore, they will have to prove intentional fraud on behalf of the two banks and two credit agencies. I am sure the SIV's prospectus has all sorts of caveats with regards to potential market risks and what is deemed to be a fair opinion of the creditworthiness from the rating agencies. There certainly were no performance guarantees. So I will be interested to see how such litigation turns out? When there are hundreds of billions of dollars at risk the lawyers always burn the midnight oil looking for an escape clause.

[halcyon]

Legalese and contracts aside, I think it's about time somebody sued the rating agencies.

They stopped performing in their intended role long time ago, while still advertising their services and information as reliable.

Sure, it' impossible to show they did this on purpose in order to defraud (they did to it on purpose, to grow their revenue), but at least they are getting sued.

I hope they'll also get a hammering in the press, but that's expecting too much

[Roccland]

Suing and getting the judgment you want are two different things.
Getting the judgment you want and collecting are two different things. Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank will be treated as a professional counterpart (versus a non-professional) or as an equal, and therefore should have been aware of the risks of such an investment. Therefore, they will have to prove intentional fraud on behalf of the two banks and two credit agencies. I am sure the SIV's prospectus has all sorts of caveats with regards to potential market risks and what is deemed to be a fair opinion of the creditworthiness from the rating agencies. There certainly were no performance guarantees. So I will be interested to see how such litigation turns out? When there are hundreds of billions of dollars at risk the lawyers always burn the midnight oil looking for an escape clause.

ahhhh....but the psychological effect pays dividends.

Who really cares what the judgement is.

People are scared.

Banks are scared.

Money has dried up and now folk are looking for the next head to lop off.

[MrBill]

The rules of what constitutes an AAA, AA, A, B or SD rating are very clear and everyone who is involved in this business knows (or should know) them. Generally, most counterparts, like public funds, require a double rating from two agencies or they cannot buy the bonds. Many SUVs were structured to give public funds with specific investment restrictions the securities they wanted at the yield they required.

I cannot and will not defend any fraud or gross negligence on behalf of the rating agencies, but the service they provide is both necessary and agreed to by the buyers of these bonds, ABS, CDOs and SUVs. It is just another example of playing the blame game after the fact when someone loses money due to market risk. Without interest rate risk, credit risk and/or currency risk there can be no yield over and above risk free treasuries. Risk is what these investors were buying in exchange for a higher yield.

I hope the plaintiffs lose and have to pay the court costs.

[Tyler_JC]

Legalese and contracts aside, I think it's about time somebody sued the rating agencies.

They stopped performing in their intended role long time ago, while still advertising their services and information as reliable.

Sure, it' impossible to show they did this on purpose in order to defraud (they did to it on purpose, to grow their revenue), but at least they are getting sued.

I hope they'll also get a hammering in the press, but that's expecting too much

I couldn't agree more.

Moody's and Friends DID commit fraud. But they committed fraud against people who should have known better. Legally Abu Dhabi doesn't have a case but on a moral level, they are right to be angry.