THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 2 (merged)

[BigTex]

If I dig a hole 2 feet wide and 4 feet deep in an area that has groundwater and I fill up my hole with water, place a piece of clear plastic over it and stick a straw in it that reaches almost to the bottom of the hole, I will have an abundant source of water until I suck all of the water I put in the hole out. I will then see a gradual accumulation of water in the hole as the groundwater condenses on the plastic and drips to the bottom of the hole. The quantity of water that will be available by this process will, however, be trivial compared to the amount of water I had when the hole was full.

Even if oil were abiotic, isn't it like the water condensing on the plastic in my example? It's not enough to mitigate our problems to any meaningful extent, so does it really matter where it comes from?

In my example, the water was not being created, it was just migrating from one area to another. I suspect that any oil that appears to be "new" is ultimately just migrating from one area to another as well.

Perhaps we could carbon date some suspected abiotic oil and see how old it is.

Wouldn't the abiotic oil argument apply to any natural resource? That is, given the right conditions, any natural resource could be replenished. For example, if we had the right materials, temperature and pressure, diamonds could be created and flow from the earth like a fountain. It is, however, the uncommon convergence of the right conditions for their formation that contribute to a diamond's value. Isn't the same true of oil? There could be new oil in the process of being created all the time, but the fact is the conditions for the creation of good oil are so unusual that it just doesn't happen very often.

Perhaps, then, it's correct to say that the abiotic oil theory could be correct, though the probability of it happening right now when we happen to be depleting millions of years of accumulated oil is VERY low.

In the end, though, if the reservoirs are not refilling at a rate that is either non-trivial, or at least predictable, I don't see that it really matters what's causing it, if it doesn't help with our problem of declining production in the face of increasing demand.

[Tanada]

Perhaps we could carbon date some suspected abiotic oil and see how old it is.

Radioactive dating is only valid for 10 half lives of the respective isotope, in this case C-14. That gives you a window of about 4400 to about 44000 years you can date, anything older you need a different method.

[BigTex]

Perhaps we could carbon date some suspected abiotic oil and see how old it is.

Radioactive dating is only valid for 10 half lives of the respective isotope, in this case C-14. That gives you a window of about 4400 to about 44000 years you can date, anything older you need a different method.

I figured if it were that simple someone would have already done it.

Thanks for the info, though.

[skeptik]

Perhaps we could carbon date some suspected abiotic oil and see how old it is.

and your other problem is an oxymoron in that statement. If the oil is abiotic, carbon dating wouldn't work, or if it did give a result then the oil by definition wouldn't be abiotic - carbon dating only works on preserved organic remains.

[BigTex]

Perhaps we could carbon date some suspected abiotic oil and see how old it is.

and your other problem is an oxymoron in that statement. If the oil is abiotic, carbon dating wouldn't work, or if it did give a result then the oil by definition wouldn't be abiotic - carbon dating only works on preserved organic remains.

Wait, run that by me again.

Assuming that the oil we are trying to carbon date is abiotic, why couldn't we carbon date it, assuming it were within the carbon dating period? (like some REALLY fresh abiotic oil)

Are you saying that the process that organic matter goes through in the process of being converted to oil destroys the ability to measure its age by carbon dating (assuming we were within the carbon dating window)?

Oh wait, I think I see what you are saying...abiotic oil is not supposed to coming from organic material in the first place. Okay, got it.

Abiotic oil is seeping out of the great (non-organic) tit of of Mother Nature.

[Garga]

http://newsbyus.com/index.php/article/524

Oil is made by a biological process of converting helium that comes from the nuclear reaction at the earth’s center. The helium is a result of the atomic reaction at the earth’s core and is thrown toward the surface by the rotation of the earth. Some evidence for that would be: 1) oil exists at 30,000 feet, far below the 18,000 feet at which organic matter disappears; 3) dry wells are later opened; 3) the amount of oil pumped out of the earth to date can not be accounted for by organic matter.
So, stop worrying about running out of oil, or thinking that it is a cause of rising prices. The supply is so long lasting that it is not a shortage of oil, and perhaps never will be. Neither is the rise in oil prices in terms of dollars is not caused by OPEC, greedy oil companies, or the lack of reserves.

I'm no scientist - but to me it comes across as someone clutching at straws.

Apparently oil will never run out - if you believe it. What they don't mention is how many millions of years this process takes....

[killJOY]

Your headline is technically true: oil is not "decayed fossils."

It's algae transformed into hydrocarbons.

[Schadenfreude]

[web]http://www.scribd.com/doc/456451/AbiogenicOilHistoricalOverview[/web]

Abiogenic Origins of Hydrocarbons: An Historical Overview

[TreeFarmer]

Another first-poster. Sometimes I think its one of the regulars with a different name just trying to stir the pot.

What is the deal with Helium anyway? Oil is all Hydrogens and Carbons as I understand it, no Heliums in there anywhere.

TF

[TheDude]

Peak Oil News >> Forums >> Welcome >> The Official Abiotic Oil Thread

[bobcousins]

There is a game on BBC Radio 4 called "The Unbelievable Truth", where panellists attempt to smuggle unlikely facts into an otherwise totally made up but amusing speech.

Paul's truth is that helium is created as a product of radioactive decay. The rest is basically nonsense I think.

Paul is that typical Conservative candidate, strong views on abortion and immigration, hopeless on science.

[Dan1195]

Oil is from decayed algae and organic plant material. The oil you put in your tank was never a T-Rex, I can assure you.

[notill]

I had to get in on this one.

Even if the theory of oil from non-organic matter was true, and there's plenty of oil at 20,000-30,000 ft. how will we retrieve it?

Economically feasible fields are the only ones we have been and need to be concerned with.

[Tanada]

Another first-poster. Sometimes I think its one of the regulars with a different name just trying to stir the pot.
What is the deal with Helium anyway? Oil is all Hydrogens and Carbons as I understand it, no Heliums in there anywhere.
TF

Helium is trapped by the same geological formatiosn that can trap petroleum or natural gas. As a consequence helium from alpha decay of radioactive materials throughout the mantle and core of the Earth get stuck in the same geophysical traps when they rise through the layers of the Earth. Hence Helium is mostly produced as a by-product of natural gas or co-production of natural gas and petroleum.

[Ivan_M]

The helium is a result of the atomic reaction at the earth’s core and is thrown toward the surface by the rotation of the earth.

If earths rotation were fast enough to overcome its own gravity the earth would spin itself apart.

[MonteQuest]

Your headline is technically true: oil is not "decayed fossils."
It's algae transformed into hydrocarbons.

In the right camp of thought, but to be more precise:

Oil is formed from microscopic organisms (plankton) that died in ancient seas between 10 million and 600 million years ago. They sank into the sand and mud at the bottom of the sea where sedimentary rocks formed called source rocks.

Heat and pressure distilled the organic material into crude oil and natural gas. The oil flowed from the source rock and accumulated in thicker, more porous limestone or sandstone, called reservoir rock.

Crude oil is in this porous reservoir rock, and not in pools we tap, as many are led to believe.

[Garga]

This was my first post, but I am hopeless at science. Someone on another forum stated the helium theory. I just wanted a few facts because I'd never heard of it before.

I never said I went along with it.

There are so many opinions out there that it's difficult to know who to believe. I personally believe in the Peak Oil Theory, but my knowledge is very limited and so it is based on other peoples opinions, the ones I find to be more believable.

The never-ending oil fairytale is appealing and even if it were partially true, it would never solve the problems of ever-increasing demands.

[bodigami]

This was my first post, but I am hopeless at science. Someone on another forum stated the helium theory. I just wanted a few facts because I'd never heard of it before.
I never said I went along with it.
There are so many opinions out there that it's difficult to know who to believe. I personally believe in the Peak Oil Theory, but my knowledge is very limited and so it is based on other peoples opinions, the ones I find to be more believable.
The never-ending oil fairytale is appealing and even if it were partially true, it would never solve the problems of ever-increasing demands.

Welcome Garga.

Stay tuned for each months and year billions or oil barrels produced. If they start declining by a significant amount, Peak Oil will be basically validated. Still, oil is a dirty, obsolete technology that should be deprecated and replaced. It spawns or fuels greed, avarice, arrogance anger and hedonism mostly because of how one can use a cheap but powerful energy source.

[ROCKMAN]

Garga,

Don't be humbled by any of the responses. I've been a petroleum geologist for over 30 years and fully understand the theory of the deep earth origin of hydrocarbons. I completely reject the idea but if you were in a Russian chat room you would be hearing many educated professionals poo-pooing the organic origin model. The Russians have long held to the inorganic origin. They have been drilling one well in Siberia for over 20 years trying to reach down into the earth's mantal to prove the theory.

Most really dumb ideas usually have some initial basis in fact. Some dumb ideas even turn out to be true. Over 30 years ago 99.9% of the oil prtofessionals were sure there were no deep water reserves to be had in the Gulf of Mexico. Now 40% of the production in the GOM comes from these fields.

[threadbear]

What about decayed bacterial casings and dead insects, leaves etc...? The composition of good soil, is mainly bacterial casings, and plant matter. It's not all coming from plankton. Is it? And naturally occuring oil closer to the earth's core, could also be one of the sources. It hasn't been disproven. It would just cost way more to get to it, if that was even possible to make it worthwhile.