THE Abiotic Oil Thread pt 2 (merged)

[OilIsMastery]

Wow there must've been 100 billion dinosaurs in Athabasca to create all that "fossil" fuel LMAO.

Fossil fuels are not created from dinosaurs. LMAO!

So why do you use the term "fossil"? And why do biogenic people always bring up dinosaurs?

[MonteQuest]

And why do biogenic people always bring up dinosaurs?

Same reason you did. They don' t know any better.

Oil was formed from the remains of microscopic animals and plants that lived before the dinosaurs ever existed.

[OilIsMastery]

Oil was formed from the remains of microscopic animals and plants that lived before the dinosaurs ever existed.

So there were trillions of tons of microscopic organisms living in Athabasca but none in the surrounding areas?

[coyote]

Natural gas is not a "fossil" fuel so what makes you think petroleum is?

Well, let's see: I usually start with Wikipedia -- just to give myself a primer, you understand;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Yes, OIM, I read that article -- a long time ago. Did you read it?

There is no direct evidence to date of abiogenic petroleum (liquid crude oil and long-chain hydrocarbon compounds) formed abiogenically within the crust, which is the essential prediction of the abiogenic petroleum theory.

And there you have it.

Why don't you try reading some college-published material on the subject? It's out there, you know.

[OilIsMastery]

There is no direct evidence to date of abiogenic petroleum (liquid crude oil and long-chain hydrocarbon compounds) formed abiogenically within the crust, which is the essential prediction of the abiogenic petroleum theory.

There is also no direct evidence of biogenic petroleum origin hence the word "theory" and hence the debate.

But I take it you think there was life on Titan? And if you don't think there was life on Titan, how do you explain the natural gas there?

[coyote]

You frikken dolt, I already answered that. Obviously some methane is produced abiogenically.

You're a real drain on this site, you know that?

[pstarr]

Folks, OilIsGreasy is a self-processed Christian fundamentalist. He does not require facts. If you disturb him with facts he will go off spouting fire and brimstone. Then we can hook him up and make electricity.

[basil_hayden]

There is also no direct evidence of biogenic petroleum origin hence the word "theory" and hence the debate.

But I take it you think there was life on Titan? And if you don't think there was life on Titan, how do you explain the natural gas there?

Bullshit.

There is quite a pile of direct evidence of biogenic petroleum origin.
Bioindicators exist in crude oil such as isoprenes, terpeniods and other organic marker molecules derived from only one source - formerly living material. Let me know when you navigate around this fact.

As far as Titan is concerned, I couldn't tell you if there's life or not as I haven't been there. Probably more life on Titan than between OilIsMasturbatory's ears.

But I have explained to you, OilIsMasturbatory, and others repeatedly that the origin of methane and ethane present on Titan is due to differentiation of elements by density as the planetoid developed. If you wish to continue your oversight of this fact, proceed with idiocy.

As far as oil seeping into pumped wells or to the surface- it's elementary, just think in 3 dimensions - side to side movements are responsible and can't be explored because to identify the path, one would have to dig or drill the subsurface which causes disrupution of the very structure one is trying to investigate (essentially destructive testing).

So go on and beat that dead horse....

[OilIsMastery]

Bioindicators exist in crude oil such as isoprenes, terpeniods and other organic marker molecules derived from only one source - formerly living material. Let me know when you navigate around this fact.

The Deep Hot Biospehere -- Thomas Gold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gold

Let me know when you learn how to read.

the origin of methane and ethane present on Titan is due to differentiation of elements by density as the planetoid developed.

Sounds exactly like the origin of petroleum on Earth.

[OilIsMastery]

Obviously some methane is produced abiogenically.

LOL...I rest my case.

[coyote]

You moron.

[basil_hayden]

Let me know when you learn how to read.

Let me know when you're de-lobotomized.

[basil_hayden]

Here's Mr. Gold's premise:

"Liquid petroleum and its volatiles are not biology that has been reworked by geology, but geology that has been reworked by biology."

It would seem to me that he came to the conclusion that both geology and biology are key factors in the formation of petroleum.
He's just stuck on whether the chicken or the egg came first.

The end result is the same, oil isn't produced at an economically viable rate.

Let's go through this thought experiment:

1. Primordial carbon is formed in stars

2. Stars blow up and make carbon rich meteors

3. Carbon rich meteors reach planets that are forming

4. Planets chemically differentiate by density, leaving most carbon presumably near the surface in the crust JUST LIKE TITAN(geophysical techniques here on Earth confirm ultramafic nickel iron mantle, outer/inner core - no carbon)

5. Crust gets reworked - plate tectonics - subduction, orogeny, etc.

6. Carbon emissions from volcanoes brings carbon to the surface of the crust where biological processes can concentrate it (UNLIKE TITAN) where it gets buried again due to step 5.

7. Proceed through the loop between tectonics and biology for 500 million years to get economically viable petroleum deposits.

8. Pump and burn the petroleum. Proceed to step 6.

Hey you're right - 500 million years from now we'll have economically viable petroleum deposits again, if there's life in the deep hot (or even the shallow cool) biosphere of course.

Gee Whiz, whodathunkit.

Gold still around? Tell him I fixed his dilemma for him and he can send me a check at any time.

[MonteQuest]

Oil was formed from the remains of microscopic animals and plants that lived before the dinosaurs ever existed.

So there were trillions of tons of microscopic organisms living in Athabasca but none in the surrounding areas?

The current theory is a combination of marine sediaments and the bituminization stage of coal via permeable surface pathways from surrounding areas.

[azreal60]

As frustrating as OIM is, please refrain from using Ad hom's and also from just plain lashing out at him. He may be a drain on the board, but if you think his posts aren't worth responding too, STOP RESPONDING. It's a much simpler and more effective way of the timeless message.

Don't... Feed... the trolls....

[rockdoc123]

The current theory is a combination of marine sediaments and the bituminization stage of coal via permeable surface pathways from surrounding areas.

just one theory that is unsubstantiated. I believe you are refering to an article that Mike Stanton put in Discovery digest awhile back where he theorized that the tar sands pre-cursor oil came from the extensive Cretaceous coal seams. Unfortunately there is no evidence to support this theory. The work that is best substantiated is that done by Martin Fowler, a geochemist at the GSC and his wife Cyndi Riedeger who was a geochemistry professor and now works at one of the larger oil companies. What these researchers found was that the biomarkers present in the Athabasca and Wabasca Lake heavy oils were similar to that noted for all Missippian and Cretaceous conventional oils. The source rock that matches those biomarkers closest is the Devonian/Mississippian organically rich shales of the Exshaw Fm. Based on burial/generation modeling it can be shown that the migration pathways for Athabasca oil were long and likely convolute, involving a number of fill/spill and remigration events.
Interestingly enough Martin Fowler is at odds with what was conventional wisdom regarding biodegration. His view (at least at one time) is that biodegradation was caused by anerobic rather than aerobic bacteria.

[OilIsMastery]

Oil was formed from the remains of microscopic animals and plants that lived before the dinosaurs ever existed.

So there were trillions of tons of microscopic organisms living in Athabasca but none in the surrounding areas?

The current theory is a combination of marine sediaments and the bituminization stage of coal via permeable surface pathways from surrounding areas.

Why so much in Athabasca and nowhere else? And if it's marine sediments, wouldn't you expect to find massive oil deposits all over the bottom of the sea floor?

[coyote]

As frustrating as OIM is, please refrain from using Ad hom's and also from just plain lashing out at him.

Right you are. Sorry.

[dbruning]

If you disturb him with facts he will go off spouting fire and brimstone. Then we can hook him up and make electricity.

So essentially Faith will solve all our problems, we just need 100 million or so fanatics we can hook wires up to.

Hey! What's Haliburton doing over in the Middle East again?
Price of copper's going up right?

Who would have thought so many years of war/death/pain/anger would just be refining the fury for maximum extraction?

*grin*

[rockdoc123]

Why so much in Athabasca and nowhere else? And if it's marine sediments, wouldn't you expect to find massive oil deposits all over the bottom of the sea floor?

The Cretaceous sandstone reservoir forms a stratigraphic trap, either due to tar mats causing a impermeable seal or stratigraphic pinchout and subsequent uplift and erosion after biodegradation.
Very similar model to the massive heavy oil deposits in Venezuela and Madagascar.

The second part of the question shows lack of understanding of how oil forms. The organic matter requires substantial heat which can only happen if the rocks are buried to great depths. By the time there has been millions of years of sediment deposited on top of the marine source rocks the sedimentary environment has gone through a number of changes. Hence a spot which was once deep marine could now be desert (a good example is the Silurian and Devonian very rich source rocks in Algeria....both of which were deposited in marine environments but did not reach maturity until Cretaceous times when the area was well above sealevel).