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Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

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Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 10:40:43

What Solyndra's Bankruptcy Means For Silicon Valley Solar Startups

In the biggest green-tech flameout yet, Silicon Valley solar panel maker Solyndra shut its doors and laid off 1,100 workers Wednesday after raising more than $1 billion from investors and securing a half billion dollar federal loan guarantee to build a state-of-the-art robotic factory that opened less than a year ago.

In a statement, the Solyndra said it would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy while exploring a sale of the business or licensing its thin-film photovoltaic technology.

“Despite strong growth in the first half of 2011 and traction in North America with a number of orders for very large commercial rooftops, Solyndra could not achieve full-scale operations rapidly enough to compete in the near term with the resources of larger foreign manufacturers,” the company said. “This competitive challenge was exacerbated by a global oversupply of solar panels and a severe compression of prices that in part resulted from uncertainty in governmental incentive programs in Europe and the decline in credit markets that finance solar systems.”

Solyndra’s crash will almost certainly intensify a debate in Washington over whether the federal government did its due diligence in vetting Solyndra for a $535 million loan guarantee – or whether it should even be in the business of subsidizing new renewable energy technologies. Solyndra had become something of a poster child for the promise of the new clean green economy and the company’s Fremont, Calif., factories became a favored backdrop for visiting dignitaries, from former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to President Obama.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwoody/2011/08/31/what-solyndras-bankruptcy-means-for-silicon-valley-solar-startups/


Ha! Utterly predictable.. how many times has Obama spoken at this plant, blowing hot air about "green jobs?" First of all, the plant never had any green jobs anyhow -- IT WAS ALL ROBOTS. Federal government invested $500,000,000, while the company only employed 1,100 carbon based lifeforms. That's a half a million dollars per human job created.

There's a video on youtube about this plant, it does look nice.. the robots are really high tech. But all for naught.. after so many visits from Obama, after half a billion from US taxpayers and another billion from private investors the whole thing has flamed out surprisingly quickly (how did they even burn through one and a half billion this fast? 8O).

It's pretty sad.. no more jobs for Americans, and increasingly OUR AMERICAN ROBOTS CAN'T COMPETE EITHER -- even when we employ all robots, we still can't beat China.

Where are the green jobs, Mr. President? They don't exist, never did, we can't even find work for our robots much less humans with families to feed.

EDIT: Here's a pic of Slyndra's employees..

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Robots. Pretty sad, who cares this company is out of business.. they wren't employing humans anyway, who needs 'em..
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 10:50:36

Sixstrings wrote:It's pretty sad.. no more jobs for Americans....Where are the green jobs, Mr. President? They don't exist, never did, we can't even find work for our robots much less humans with families to feed.


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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 11:25:30

This was the wrong technology from the start.

WAY to expensive and poor performance (at least in Germany) in combination with "snake oil" advertisement.

Who whould buy that stuff?

This is waht you have to compete against in Germany (so far the biggest market for PV):

http://www.gehrlicher.com/de/home/whole ... mJPMY5nSE1

1kWp solarpanels + inverter + BOS (not included is grid connection and installation) = 1.200 Euro.

Ok, this a 3rd rate converters and 3rd rate modules and as cheap as it gets here, but you get the idea how many people would buy Solyndra modules (only the modules!) at 2.000 Euro / kW.
And they still lost money selling at that price.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 12:25:57

cephalotus wrote:This was the wrong technology from the start.

WAY to expensive and poor performance (at least in Germany) in combination with "snake oil" advertisement.

Who whould buy that stuff?


Well that's what I read, nobody in Europe wanted to buy our Obama solar panels. Can you explain more why this was "the wrong technology from the start?" This friggin' plant cost one and a half BILLION dollars.. God we Americans can't do anything right. Except for Facebook and war.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 12:46:58

Sixstrings wrote:we Americans can't do anything right....


Americans did the right thing...they didn't buy this junk.

The problem is that Obama and the dopes in the White House tried to pick which technology is best and then subsidize it with federal tax dollars. Only the marketplace can decide which technology is right....someone as stupid as Obama doesn't have a prayer of predicting which technology will ultimately be accepted by the market.

Government should concentrate on building basic infrastructure and supporting education for Americans. I'm more distressed at the Obama administration's misplaced priorities (such as their failure to build a single mile of high speed rail) then I am with the stupidity they showed in wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on the failed solar cell factories in Massachusetts and California.

The global economy is premised on expansion, where what we face is contraction
---Colin Campbell (2012)
Unfortunately, the Fed can't print oil
---Ben Bernanke (2011)
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby MD » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 14:22:53

I guarantee the management team made off with 10 million apiece, on average.

Not to mention the profits made by the primary vendors and contractors.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby SilentRunning » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 16:12:44

When was the last time the US Department of Defense wasted $500 million? I'm guessing it was sooner than last week.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby sicophiliac » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 16:30:56

SilentRunning wrote:When was the last time the US Department of Defense wasted $500 million? I'm guessing it was sooner than last week.


I dont know, 500 million lasts about 2 days in Iraq?

Solyndra may have been a bad investment but id rather have my tax dollars gambled on some risky solar tech like that then have it pissed away on wars or bank bailouts. The Chinese government is backing its solar industry with billions of dollars in loans btw.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 17:15:21

sicophiliac wrote:I dont know, 500 million lasts about 2 days in Iraq?

Solyndra may have been a bad investment but id rather have my tax dollars gambled on some risky solar tech like that then have it pissed away on wars or bank bailouts. The Chinese government is backing its solar industry with billions of dollars in loans btw.


I'm okay with solar panels, but this was handled badly.

First of all the half billion dollars was supposed to be for job creation -- but 1,100 jobs is nothing compared to the millions who are out of work, $500,000 per new job isn't going to cut it. Now not only is all that money gone, but taxpayers are on the hook for all the unemployment comp.

Secondly.. before this kind of money was invested somebody should have vetted the tech. We have smart people working for government, between DARPA and NASA and all that. Why couldn't they vet this solar tech to figure out nobody wants it.

Lastly.. assuming the product made sense, if government is going to do this they should have enacted a big fat solar panel tariff to give the American company a chance. Without the tariff, I'm proven right yet again -- American manufacturers cannot compete, even when it's almost all robots.

So lots of screwups here. (1) these green jobs are for robots more than people, (2) not enough of them to put the jobless to work, (3) we should have just done a tariff then venture capitalists would rush to fund solar manufacturing and the taxpayer wouldn't have to pay a dime.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sat 03 Sep 2011, 17:31:26, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 17:25:36

It looks like Solyndra violated the WARN Act:

Brian Harrison
President and CEO
Solyndra, LLC
47488 Kato Road
Fremont, CA 94538


Dear Mr. Harrison,

I write to you with great concern for the well-being of the more than 1,000 Solyndra workers in Fremont, California who lost their jobs on Wednesday, August 31st. It is unconscionable that they were let go with absolutely no advance notice, immediately losing both their income and health coverage.

Congress created the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act to protect workers from just this type of event. The WARN Act requires that companies with more than 100 full-time employees provide workers with at least 60 days advance notice before plant closings and mass layoffs. This law gives workers at least a limited window to seek other employment or retraining opportunities before losing their income and benefits.

Whether the WARN Act applies to Solyndra is a matter for the courts to determine. It may be that you plan to seek the protection of an exception in the law. In that case, the burden of proof is with your company to prove its inability to meet the conditions of the law. However, the law also requires that you provide “as much notice as is practicable.” I don’t think it takes a well-skilled attorney to surmise that Solyndra executives knew before Wednesday morning that the plant would be shut down.

While it is too late to provide your former employees with the advance notice they deserved, there is still time for your company to stand up and provide them with 60 days of pay and benefits. These hardworking people were put out on the street without warning and you owe it to each of them to provide this minimal compensation at a very difficult time.

I look forward to your prompt action on this matter.


Sincerely,


Pete Stark
Member of Congress
http://www.stark.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2278:press-release-stark-calls-on-solyndra-execs-to-compensate-laid-off-workers&catid=82:press-releases-2011&Itemid=62


Yikes, the Koch brothers have never treated their employees this way. No notice, no warning as required by law, Solyndra just shut down and all the employees are out on their ear -- I guess no COBRA for their health insurance, nothing, one day they're working next day the doors are locked. $1.5 billion, where did it all go.. will their last paycheck even clear the bank?
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby cephalotus » Sat 03 Sep 2011, 17:43:37

Sixstrings wrote:
Well that's what I read, nobody in Europe wanted to buy our Obama solar panels. Can you explain more why this was "the wrong technology from the start?" This friggin' plant cost one and a half BILLION dollars.. God we Americans can't do anything right. Except for Facebook and war.


- low efficiency (it doesn't help if half of your panale surface does not face to the sun)
- the reflection technology from a white plastic sheet underneath does not work in our climate, it gets dirty quite fast.
- snow and leaves will stay between the tubes and shade the panels
- only certain installation teams are allowed to mount them
- way, way, way to expensive
- low kWh/kWp performance (despite other claims from their advertisement, maybe this is different in deserts, doesn't help here)

I doubt that this has anything to do with Obama. Obama is not a solar expert.

In my opinion the Solyndra tube technology was a fraud from the beginning. Maybe this is just a side effect of the very optimistic US approach to new technologies while Germans always say "this thing will never work".
There are lots of such things, like Bloom power, EE store, Aptera, Solyndra, those solar panel power optimizers (forgot the name), Tesla, etc, etc... that get/got lots of hype over there...

On the other side sometimes there is a success story like First Solar or maybe A123 Systems (not sure about them yet...) that would be quite unlikely here, because those companies wouldn't get the investments, because people would doubt that their concept can and will work...

And btw, I assume that most solar panel manufacturers will die during the next 2 years, this will include German, Japanese, US and of course also Chinese companies...

The price war has just begun (expect falling prices in the next months) and the really big players like Bosch or Samsung are just starting to invest billions into their factories... To be competitive in the future solar panel market I expect that you have to build a new GW factory every year and close / retrofit them every 2 years with the newest technology. If you are 10% more expensive than your competitor than you have lost.

Some smaller players may find niche systems where higher prices are justified by the consumers (i.e. building integrated systems or ultralight flexible systems for mobile applications...) but the Solyndra approach didn't work.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 08 Sep 2011, 15:32:19

FBI raid at Solyndra:

FBI raids solar panel company hailed by Obama

FBI agents on Thursday executed search warrants at the headquarters of Solyndra LLC, which was awarded more than $500 million in federal stimulus loans in 2009 to make solar panels in what the Obama administration called part of an aggressive effort to put more Americans to work and end U.S. dependence on foreign oil.

But the company filed a bankruptcy petition Tuesday in Delaware, asking a court to bar phone, electricity and water and sewer service providers from “altering, refusing or discontinuing service,” and now is the focus of an investigation by the FBI and the Energy Department's Office of Inspector General.

FBI spokesman Peter Lee said he could not provide details about the investigation.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/8/fbi-raids-solar-panel-company-hailed-by-obama/


What a mess. At the minimum, if gov is going to loan half a billion dollars to a startup, then they need to have someone keeping an eye on the thing.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 08 Sep 2011, 16:15:14

The title of this topic needs to be fixed.

The taxpayers didn't waste 500 million---it was OBAMA who wasted the 500 million.

In fact thats what the FBI is investigating----how did the corrupt slimeballs and Obama backers at Solyndra get all this money and special treatment from the Obama administration. Who in the Obama administration pulled strings so that Solyndra got special treatment on the loan. Why was the loan made at all---the internal DOE audits flagged it as a suspect deal? ANd what in heck did the Obama supporters at Solyndra DO with all that money?
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby nobodypanic » Thu 08 Sep 2011, 17:12:16

here's a novel idea... stop relying on private industry for anything. :)
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 08 Sep 2011, 17:20:58

[quote="nobodypanic"]here's a novel idea... stop relying on private industry for anything.

YOU mean Obama should just skip the private industry cover story, and stuff the stimulus money in his backer's pockets directly?

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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby nobodypanic » Thu 08 Sep 2011, 17:26:15

Plantagenet wrote:
nobodypanic wrote:here's a novel idea... stop relying on private industry for anything.

YOU mean Obama should just skip the private industry cover story, and stuff the stimulus money in his backer's pockets directly?

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his backers are private industry.

keynesian measures are still primarily sops to the the capitalists.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 09 Sep 2011, 14:51:27

The Obama people were such morons that they made a new deal with Solyndra in JULY. The friggin company went bankrupt in AUGUST, but the clowns in the Obama administration were too stupid or too lazy to know that Solyndra had been a scam so they just kept shoveling money out the door.

SHEESH.

The FBI raided the homes of the Solyndra CEO etc. today. I hope they nail these green fraudsters to the wall.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 23:26:00

By the way.. I haven't heard this mentioned on either CNN or MSNBC. They really should be more objective and not totally pro-Obama.. this should have been reported, if they carried every photo-op Obama did at Solyndra they should have covered this.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Cog » Sat 10 Sep 2011, 23:38:25

But yet your vote for Obama is all but assured in 2012.
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Re: Solyndra goes bankrupt, taxpayers wasted $500 million

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 11 Sep 2011, 00:05:26

Cog wrote:But yet your vote for Obama is all but assured in 2012.


If Romney is the nominee I'll probably vote a protest candidate. I can't in good conscience vote for Obama again. But you never know; if Perry is the nominee, or if some batsh*t crazy VP is picked.. a responsible voter would have to vote Obama. And yet I can't stomach the thought of voting Obama. It's a dilemma.
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