So much for "sideways," jobless claims jump to 500k

[ColossalContrarian]

Two people, out to dinner, collecting UI beni's and working side jobs.

Some of that goes on but honestly.. why does it bother you if some dude is mowing lawns to supplement UI? I think you know full well that "jobs on the side" aren't the highest paying kind of gig. What do you think they're doing, mining gold while on comp?

What you're talking about is INFINITESIMAL compared to the TRILLIONS stolen by rich Republicans on Wall Street.

And I'll tell you something else.. if people are doing side work that's a good thing, if possible you have to get out there and keep work skills up while unemployed. Those guys will have a better chance of transitioning back into working life if and when a regular job becomes available. Having them all sit home waiting for a job is no good solution.. skills erode.. they become unemployable.

Some guy is doing odd jobs and it bothers you.. yet you're not bothered at all by 1% fraud in the trillions.. That makes no sense.

I got to thinking about how many people are claiming UI beni's, working side jobs or under the table deals, and getting away with collecting UI beni's. Clearly the couple I overheard had enough money to go out to dinner at a nice place, so that of-course burned me but o'well.

I don't know if I'd call the Roadhouse a nice place but.. why does it bother you so much if some poor person manages to go out to dinner? If you want to get away from that then eat at classier restaurants.

Six, I'm looking at this from the perspective that if any Joe Shmoe with a heart beat could get a loan for a $400K house while only making $32K per year, can anyone just go and apply for UE Benefits and get them?

I actually do believe it's a good thing for people to have side jobs but don't think for a minute there aren't people driving huge gas guzzling monster trucks whilst collecting UI beni's not paying their mortgage, and passing me on the highway doing 85 while I do 75 in my 32mpg car and getting paid under the table

Maybe I'll change my name to ColossallyJealousDude?

Or, maybe someone like you could find it in your heart to give me money because I want to go to nicer restaurants? I deserve to have Sushi a couple night a week don't I?

I also posted my observation in hopes that someone could get me in on the UE Beni game because I lost out on the whole mortgage free living for 14 month deal. I feel so stupid for missing that one

[rangerone314]

I eat out dinner on a regular basis, like once a month, usually KFC or TacoBell and inexpensive lunch once every two weeks. Every two weeks, I get $35 in mad money and wife gets $35 in mad money to be spend on anything.

Also every two week paycheck, each credit card is paid off in full without regards to the bill date.

I go to the movies on a regular basis, like 3 times a year.

Not sure if that is affluent or not by American standards, but I believe in putting $216 in reserves each 2 weeks, $80 of which is for stocks and $116 of which is for gold/silver, rest savings. I'd note this does not include the other savings accounts which are named BigFund { house maint, medical, discretionary, technology, agriculture etc} }, CarFund, SolarFund and MiscFund.

I'm pretty consistent in this.

[Sixstrings]

Six, I'm looking at this from the perspective that if any Joe Shmoe with a heart beat could get a loan for a $400K house while only making $32K per year, can anyone just go and apply for UE Benefits and get them?

It varies between states, but I'm pretty sure in all 50 you can't just sign up.. you have to be terminated. I think there are states where you can get it even if you quit.

I only tried once in my life, I was denied because the company said I was fired "with cause." Well no sh*t sherlock, why else does a company terminate.. it has to be for a cause.. I could have appealed it, but it wasn't worth it to me I just wanted to forget that company anyway much less fight with them.

As far as I know in Florida a lay off is the only sure way to get comp because they can't blame that on the employee. I've had friends / family who had to appeal to get benefits.

The only people on a bit of a gravy train were those making a high wage to start with. I do know someone like that, he plans to ride the bennies till the end.. he's not doing sidejobs just having a blast. Camping, fishing, travelling. It's the only sabbatical a working man will ever get, can't say I blame him. Thing is though if the benefits run out it will be hard for these types to transition back into working.

That said, the jobs really aren't there.. maybe there's lawn mowing odd job work but not full time jobs. Colossal, I still say the bankster graft over these past few years must be addressed first. But to make you happy, a solution to what you're talking about would be a new Works Progress Administration. Have 99 weeks of regular unemployment, then a job from the government after that. Get people fixing parks up, working in the community. This would weed out the lazy folks.. those types would get a better job ASAP. The UK has a permanent dole.. I actually think welfare like that is destructive. Give people a job in exchange for a check, while making sure private sector jobs even on the low end are better than the government job.

[rangerone314]

I gotta wonder though about spending 800 billion to create 2 million jobs... why not just pay 10 million people $40,000 each and you'd be helping 10 million instead of 2 million?

[ColossalContrarian]

Six, I'm looking at this from the perspective that if any Joe Shmoe with a heart beat could get a loan for a $400K house while only making $32K per year, can anyone just go and apply for UE Benefits and get them?

It varies between states, ..............

The only people on a bit of a gravy train were those making a high wage to start with. I do know someone like that, he plans to ride the bennies till the end.. he's not doing sidejobs just having a blast. Camping, fishing, travelling. It's the only sabbatical a working man will ever get, can't say I blame him. Thing is though if the benefits run out it will be hard for these types to transition back into working.

............. Colossal, I still say the bankster graft over these past few years must be addressed first. But to make you happy, a solution to what you're talking about would be a new Works Progress Administration........

Thank you for the explanation but I see the "banksters" and the "gravytrainers" as being the same. They're both greedy and care little for the people who help them live the live's they live. They're both sociopaths, they have no clue or care in the world for anyone but themselves.

Quantity of money does play a role in who's worse but their both dirt-bags in my opinion. If a "gravytrainer" could be a "bankster" they would, no question.

[Cog]

But to make you happy, a solution to what you're talking about would be a new Works Progress Administration. Have 99 weeks of regular unemployment, then a job from the government after that. Get people fixing parks up, working in the community.

Let me get this straight. You not only want to give people 99 weeks of unemployment on my dime, you also want to create move government jobs that I have to pay for as well? You ever hear of the phrase moral hazard?

I don't think you have any clue how tired the productive class is of getting reamed by the mooch class. But you are about to find out.

[beamofthewave]

The mooch class of banksters and elite will continue reaming you and every other hard working American and they do not care about you one bit or how much you dont like their thievery. They do not care about you one bit unless of course you are a member of the mooch class, then they care, maybe. But as for stealing the wealth of the country, they do not care.

[Sixstrings]

I don't think you have any clue how tired the productive class is of getting reamed by the mooch class. But you are about to find out.

Well Atlas.. if you decide to shrug I'm sure there's a company in India that would love to underbid you.

[ColossalContrarian]

American's have institutionalized the pleasures of eating out........................................
.................
Even while families are at dire financial ends they will still struggle to find the means to continue this gastronomic anachronism to an overweight society. It is what makes their life normal in the face of change.

I love this quote Lore, I think about this a lot simply because I've always know fat people to be very pushy. They'll literally push children out of the way to FEED. Like a heard of cattle.

Nothing against overweight people btw (I know, genes and stuff but the other fatties) but seriously. Don't get between a fat person and their meal! I've traveled to four continents and by far the fattest people around are North American's more specifically Americans. Not to state the obvious...

[Novus]

I gotta wonder though about spending 800 billion to create 2 million jobs... why not just pay 10 million people $40,000 each and you'd be helping 10 million instead of 2 million?

The mega rich would not be able to get their cut if they did that. Why do you think they are in Love with trickle down theory. Give 800 billion to the mega rich and bankers and then say it is for the greater good because it will make a lot of jobs. Of course they just pocket the money and sit on it and then say we need more tax cuts before any jobs can be created. Who do they think they are fooling.

[OilFinder2]

Posted August 18.

If initial unemployment claims (SA) start to head steadily upward, and regularly start hitting the mid-400's by, say, October or November, that is my "doom signal."

With a 397K print today, and it being early November, my doom signal has yet to flash warning signs. If we were headed into another recession right now, claims would be going up. But they aren't.

[OilFinder2]

Posted May 5 - SIX MONTHS AGO!!

STILL awaiting that double dip!!!!

MarketWatch: Double-dip recession is now undeniable

The ISM’s service-sector index dropped to 52.8 from 57.3 in March. New orders plunged to 52.7, the lowest reading since December 2009, from 64.1 in the prior month. And the employment index dropped to 51.9 from 53.7 a month earlier. First-time jobless claims surged by 43,000 to 474,000 in the week ending April 30th, which was the highest reading since August. And the four-week moving average rose to 431,250 from 409,000. But perhaps most importantly, more evidence of an official double dip in home prices was found in a report from Clear Capital. The report stated that its monthly index is now below the prior all-time low set in March 2009. ... Year-over-year national home prices are down 5%. Home prices have dropped 11.5% in the last nine months, a rate of decline not seen since 2008. The saddest news of all is the fact that over 25% of all homes with a mortgage are underwater on that loan.

MarketWatch

[Cog]

Posted August 18.

If initial unemployment claims (SA) start to head steadily upward, and regularly start hitting the mid-400's by, say, October or November, that is my "doom signal."

With a 397K print today, and it being early November, my doom signal has yet to flash warning signs. If we were headed into another recession right now, claims would be going up. But they aren't.

So we have managed to achieve stagnation. Somehow that doesn't seem very hopeful.

[Plantagenet]

Actually, we aren't at stagnation. Every month the Obama administration shifts workers from the unemployed category into the "discouraged worker" category, so they no longer show up in the statistics even though they are still unemployed.

When you include the growing numbers of unemployed discouraged workers in with the regular old unemployed, the total number of unemployed is still growing and approaching 20% of all workers.

[OilFinder2]

^
That has nothing to do with initial jobless claims.

[Plantagenet]

Actually, we aren't at stagnation. Every month the Obama administration shifts workers from the unemployed category into the "discouraged worker" category, so they no longer show up in the statistics even though they are still unemployed.

When you include the growing numbers of unemployed discouraged workers in with the regular old unemployed, the total number of unemployed is still growing and is now over 20% of all workers.

Hi Oilfinder2:

The initial jobless numbers go up and down each month. This month they were below 400K.

The total number of unemployed, when you include the "discouraged workers" continues to increase each month.

Right now its almost gotten up to 23% of all workers----and thats comparable to unemployment last seen during the great depression

Total US unemployment now at ca. 23%---it has risen steadily for last three years and continues to rise

[Daniel_Plainview]

Posted August 18.

If initial unemployment claims (SA) start to head steadily upward, and regularly start hitting the mid-400's by, say, October or November, that is my "doom signal."

With a 397K print today, and it being early November, my doom signal has yet to flash warning signs. If we were headed into another recession right now, claims would be going up. But they aren't.

Oh, I'm so glad you posted that ^^^^

First, the prior week's Initial claims were revised up to 406,000 from an original reading of 402,000. And every week they're revised upward by at least 4 or 5K.

Second, from your own beloved source:

The level of weekly claims has hovered near the 400,000 mark for the past five months, reflecting slow progress for a U.S. economy still struggling to throw off shackles imposed during the 2007-09 recession. The economy isn’t even adding enough jobs to keep up with natural growth in the labor force — never mind put millions of unemployed Americans back to work. “While there has been slight improvement, the broad trend is still consistent with a lukewarm labor market and provides limited reason for renewed optimism among jobseekers,” said Jim Baird, chief investment strategist at Plante Moran Financial Advisors. ...

The U.S. probably needs to add at least 250,000 jobs a month over an extended period to ratchet down the unemployment rate, economists say. And the economy has to add at least 100,000 a month just to keep up with the natural growth in the labor force.

[OilFinder2]

Hi Oilfinder2:

The initial jobless numbers go up and down each month. This month they were below 400K.

The total number of unemployed, when you include the "discouraged workers" continues to increase each month.

Right now its almost gotten up to 23% of all workers----and thats comparable to unemployment last seen during the great depression

Total US unemployment now at ca. 23%---it has risen steadily for last three years and continues to rise

You just proved you don't know what an initial jobless claim is. Your own link says absolutely nothing about them.

[Daniel_Plainview]

Oooh cool ... I had forgotten about that oldie but goodie ...

MarketWatch: Double-dip recession is now undeniable

The ISM’s service-sector index dropped to 52.8 from 57.3 in March. New orders plunged to 52.7, the lowest reading since December 2009, from 64.1 in the prior month. And the employment index dropped to 51.9 from 53.7 a month earlier. First-time jobless claims surged by 43,000 to 474,000 in the week ending April 30th, which was the highest reading since August. And the four-week moving average rose to 431,250 from 409,000. But perhaps most importantly, more evidence of an official double dip in home prices was found in a report from Clear Capital. The report stated that its monthly index is now below the prior all-time low set in March 2009. ... Year-over-year national home prices are down 5%. Home prices have dropped 11.5% in the last nine months, a rate of decline not seen since 2008. The saddest news of all is the fact that over 25% of all homes with a mortgage are underwater on that loan.

MarketWatch

[OilFinder2]

I'm so glad you arrived at this thread DP. Say, when do we get this double-dip? Six months ago it was supposed to be "imminent." Still waiting! Initial jobless claims are lower now than when you posted this six months ago. Perhaps it's time you man up and simply admit you were wrong about your claim of an imminent double dip. If you've got the guts, that is (which I doubt).

Posted May 5 - SIX MONTHS AGO!!

STILL awaiting that double dip!!!!

MarketWatch: Double-dip recession is now undeniable

The ISM’s service-sector index dropped to 52.8 from 57.3 in March. New orders plunged to 52.7, the lowest reading since December 2009, from 64.1 in the prior month. And the employment index dropped to 51.9 from 53.7 a month earlier. First-time jobless claims surged by 43,000 to 474,000 in the week ending April 30th, which was the highest reading since August. And the four-week moving average rose to 431,250 from 409,000. But perhaps most importantly, more evidence of an official double dip in home prices was found in a report from Clear Capital. The report stated that its monthly index is now below the prior all-time low set in March 2009. ... Year-over-year national home prices are down 5%. Home prices have dropped 11.5% in the last nine months, a rate of decline not seen since 2008. The saddest news of all is the fact that over 25% of all homes with a mortgage are underwater on that loan.

MarketWatch