THE Solar Thermal Energy Thread (merged)

[Caoimhan]

I've been fascinated by what Sterling Energy Systems has been doing with their Stirling solar-thermal devices. But here's another solar-thermal solution: http://pesn.com/2005/08/02/9600142_IAUS_Solar/

Here's a snippet:

There are two key factors in the IAUS technology that enable a cost-effective conversion of solar energy into usable power: their thin-film solar collectors, and their bladeless turbines, which have a much wider application than just converting solar thermal energy to electricity.

The company also will be combining this new development with existing catalytic technology to generate methanol fuel cleanly from carbon dioxide and hydrogen. All this can be done at a price comparable to gasoline, if not even a little less expensive, considering the present high price of gasoline.

The solar collectors do not operate as photovoltaic cells. Rather, the sun's rays focus onto a heat exchanger which then transfers the heat to a highly efficient turbine, which in turn hooks directly to a regular AC electricity generator.

Solar panels resemble magnifying glass lenses. Approximately 1/8-inch thick, resilient material, withstands strong winds.
Though the panels resemble a magnifying glass, they are in fact composed of thousands of microscopic refracting lenses on a thin substrate that is only about 1/8th of an inch thick, and held in place by a frame. The "thin film" manufacturing process is far less expensive than the photovoltaic cell manufacturing process.

The prototype is rectangular in shape, with 15 panels on each half, each focusing on a separate heat exchanger that will reach around 1000 degrees Fahrenheit, driving the turbine.

However, the manufactured product will be shaped like an octagon, about 22 feet in diameter; and will focus all the rays on a larger heat exchanger, which could get as hot as 4000 ºF. That unit will put out about 6-10 kilowatts of AC power, enough to power a few homes.

[gnm]

Don't they mean "Methane" ? Methanol is wood alchohol not natural gas....

Solar to Methanol -- Natural Gas

Another process that the company is capable of involves a method of producing methanol from carbon dioxide and hydrogen. This technology is already developed and in existence elsewhere, but their apparatus will make it more economical, to the point where methanol could be made available at approximately the same cost as gasoline.

The UV energy from the sun will split CO2 (carbon dioxide) into CO (carbon monoxide) and O2 (oxygen). Then the CO along with hydrogen (H) bubbles through a catalytic unit containing copper and zinc powder suspended in a kind of oil. The CO and H combine into CH2OH (Methanol). The H is released through electrolysis from water.

The catalytic process requires about 600 psi, and 500ºF. The heat from the solar collectors initiates the process, and once it takes off, it generates excess heat, which can then be used to turn the turbine, to create more electricity by which they can run the electrolysis.

The IAUS concept is to produce methanol fuel using carbon dioxide -- a primary greenhouse gas -- from the environment -- at a cost comparable to gasoline. The CO2 could come either from ambient air, or from a smoke stack, to help clean it up the atmosphere.

Being a very small molecule, methanol, or natural gas, burns much more cleanly and efficiently, resulting in less emissions when it is used as a fuel.

This method solves the Hydrogen transport problem as well. The solar panels generate electricity to split off hydrogen from water, and rather than having to then ship the hydrogen, which is problematic, IAUS runs the hydrogen through this process to convert it to methanol, which can easily be contained and shipped.

I'd be more interested in details about thier "turbine"

I dunno man, I'm suspicious - this smacks of pump it and dump it!

-G

[EnergySpin]

Don't they mean "Methane" ? Methanol is wood alchohol not natural gas....

Solar to Methanol -- Natural Gas

Another process that the company is capable of involves a method of producing methanol from carbon dioxide and hydrogen. This technology is already developed and in existence elsewhere, but their apparatus will make it more economical, to the point where methanol could be made available at approximately the same cost as gasoline.

The UV energy from the sun will split CO2 (carbon dioxide) into CO (carbon monoxide) and O2 (oxygen). Then the CO along with hydrogen (H) bubbles through a catalytic unit containing copper and zinc powder suspended in a kind of oil. The CO and H combine into CH2OH (Methanol). The H is released through electrolysis from water.

The catalytic process requires about 600 psi, and 500ºF. The heat from the solar collectors initiates the process, and once it takes off, it generates excess heat, which can then be used to turn the turbine, to create more electricity by which they can run the electrolysis.

The IAUS concept is to produce methanol fuel using carbon dioxide -- a primary greenhouse gas -- from the environment -- at a cost comparable to gasoline. The CO2 could come either from ambient air, or from a smoke stack, to help clean it up the atmosphere.

Being a very small molecule, methanol, or natural gas, burns much more cleanly and efficiently, resulting in less emissions when it is used as a fuel.

This method solves the Hydrogen transport problem as well. The solar panels generate electricity to split off hydrogen from water, and rather than having to then ship the hydrogen, which is problematic, IAUS runs the hydrogen through this process to convert it to methanol, which can easily be contained and shipped.

I'd be more interested in details about thier "turbine"

I dunno man, I'm suspicious - this smacks of pump it and dump it!

-G

Synthesis of methanol (CH3OH) from CO2 feedstocks. Reported in
K.W. Jun, W.J. Shen, K.S. Rama Rao, K.W. Lee, Applied Catalysis A: General, 1998, vol. 174, 231238 CuZnO catalyst employed
Research in Japan
http://www.iaea.org/inis/aws/htgr/abstr ... 67245.html

The first step is generation of carbon monoxide from carbon dioxide and subsequent reduction of carbon monoxide to methanol.
Catalytic photoreduction of CO2 and H2O to water using visible light reported in PNAS back in 1982.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/2/701
The components of the technology are well known .. the question is does the whole contraption work?
Methanol and ammonia synthesis is also one of the ways to convert Ocean Thermal Energy to a chemical (liquid) form. Both of them can be burned in IC engines.
Will not comment on the self-sustaining nature of the reaction ... have no idea about the ΔG of the reaction
Cheers

[gnm]

Yeah I realize you _can_ synthesize methanol but why are they referring to it as natural gas ( a small molecule as they say) - somebody didn't do thier homework?

-G

[Caoimhan]

I think it was probably a misunderstanding on the part of the writer. I could see an engineer telling him, "Small molecules, such as methanol or natural gas, burn cleaner," and what he heard was, "Small molecules such as methanol, or natural gas, burn cleaner." Oh the difference a comma can make, especially since the writer probably knows that natural gas is mostly methane, which sounds like methanol.

[Caoimhan]

I'd be more interested in details about thier "turbine"

I dunno man, I'm suspicious - this smacks of pump it and dump it!

-G

From the company's website... info about the turbine:

http://iaus.com/turbine.htm

They already have their funding, and are going into manufacturing mode within the next month, according to the article.

I guess we'll see soon if it's vapor-tech or not.

Caoimhan

[MicroHydro]

I guess we'll see soon if it's vapor-tech or not.

Caoimhan

It is a criminal fraud See Link:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic10497.html

[Caoimhan]

You don't know that. All you have is an SEC complaint. If you can find the records of what actually ended up happening with that case, I'd be happy to take a look. The fact that they're not in jail and are still in business seems to be an indication that they were not found guilty of wrongdoing...

I've been searching for more info about this on the web, but am not finding anything definitive.

[Googolplex]

I like where this is going! Sounds like a very simple and reliable technology that would be FAR easier to manufacture, maintane and repair post-peak then any photovoltaic or nuclear solution.

The only question now is whats the EROEI? If its positive, this is BIG news.

I don't want to be overly optimistic though. We'll see in time what comes of this...

[Bas]

In fact, as we found out when we got closer, the rays of sunlight reflected by a field of 600 huge mirrors are so intense they illuminate the water vapour and dust hanging in the air.

The effect is to give the whole place a glow - even an aura - and if you're concerned about climate change that may well be deserved.

It is Europe's first commercially operating power station using the Sun's energy this way and at the moment its operator, Solucar, proudly claims that it generates 11 Megawatts (MW) of electricity without emitting a single puff of greenhouse gas. This current figure is enough to power up to 6,000 homes.
But ultimately, the entire plant should generate as much power as is used by the 600,000 people of Seville.

It works by focusing the reflected rays on one location, turning water into steam and then blasting it into turbines to generate power.

BBC article(also has a nice video)

[Doly]

This is hardly the first solar thermal power plant built, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

[Bas]

This is hardly the first solar thermal power plant built, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

What interests me is that this kind of solar power generation could become much cheaper than solar panels, possibly within only a few years as these plants are very cheap to build:

Partly financed with European Union funds, the entire project requires an investment of 1.2 billion euro. The investment required to build the concentrating solar power plant amounted to €35 million, with a contribution of €5 million from the EU's Fifth Framework Programme for research, awarded for the project's innovative approach.

Environment News Service article

[Bas]

Solucar Video

[undertaker]

I thoiught of exactly this form of renewable energy the first time I holocausted an ant with a magnifying glass, but my stupid science teacher said it wouldn't work.

And now they got the things. Amazing.

[coyote]

Cool.

I hope we build a bunch more.

Real soon like.

[Jonathan_Hoag]

Concentrator solar thermal is definitely the way to go for power plant sized solar projects. The focus can achieve very high temperatures, meaning a very high Carnot efficiency, unlike the very stupid idea of a updraft solar tower.

Photovoltaics is still very practical for small scale applications such as rooftops and such.

[Tanada]

PV panal convert 20% or less of light into electricity, why not build a reflector array like that one with PV cells as the pnanl material? Get twice the use from the same light, as it were.

[Bas]

PV panal convert 20% or less of light into electricity, why not build a reflector array like that one with PV cells as the pnanl material? Get twice the use from the same light, as it were.

I don't think you can reflect the light and use it in solar panels at the same time; as it is, mirrors in this set up are far more effiecient than stand alone solar panels. Drawback is that you need to do this on a relatively big scale (like it's being done here) to get those kind of efficience rates. Also mirrors are far less expensive to produce and replace than solar panels.

[JRP3]

Actually people are using reflectors with solar panels to concentrate light and boost the output of solar panels. One problem that needs to be dealt with is elevated heat levels degrading the panels, but it's possible. I'm too lazy to search for examples but they are out there, probably some on this board.

[TheDude]

Parabolic trough power plants are the most successful and cost-effective CSP system design at present. They use a curved trough which reflects the direct solar insolation onto a hollow tube running along above the trough. The whole trough tilts through the course of the day so that direct insolation remains focused on the hollow tube for as long as the sun shines. A fluid, normally thermal oil, passes through the tube and becomes hot. Full-scale parabolic trough systems consist of many such troughs laid out in parallel over a large area of land. A solar thermal system using this principle is in operation in California in the United States, called the SEGS system.[1] At 350 MW, it is currently not only the largest operational solar thermal energy system, but the largest solar power system of any kind. SEGS uses oil to take the heat away: the oil then passes through a heat exchanger, creating steam which runs a steam turbine.

Ah, our good buddy oil.

What does it do to a flock of birds? Can we set up KFCs in the vincinity? Local economy, you know.

Yeah, I know, birds will likely fly at higher altitudes.

Stirling engines fueled by solar sounds promising. Even Dubya did an inspection of SPS's facilities.