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Saudi Aramco IPO

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby Cliffhanger1983 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:19:40

Rockdoc sorry.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby Cliffhanger1983 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:24:11

Saudi Arabia’s Energy Minister Warns of World Oil Shortages Ahead

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-mini ... 1476870790

Saudi Aramco CEO believes oil shortage coming despite U.S. shale boom

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017 ... -boom.html

IEA Chief warns of world oil shortages by 2020 as discoveries fall to record lows

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-g ... 1493244000


Why are the Saudi's and IEA warning now about upcoming oil shortages if they have all the oil they claim?
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:33:06

They sent over 12 of their crappiest with box cutters to kill 2,000 of our best. Saudi Arabia has no reason to reveal the truth and every reason to lie. It's a nation of slaves ruled over by a single family of hateful feudal liars.


Do you actually know any Saudis? Every met one? Your statement reeks of racist hate. :x

Pretty much everyone in the world has "no reason to reveal the truth and every reason to lie", but they don't. Yet you seem to think the Saudis are somehow substandard or perhaps evil. As I said once before it is time you actually traveled somewhere out of the northern California hillbilly country.

About reserves the reason they can't lie is it is an IPO...independent reserve reports are required by law, they must provide 3 years of externally audited financials as well. Basically, if they lie the IPO is tossed out and potential jail terms in the jurisdictions where the IPO was attempted. This is absolutely no different than in the USA (in fact if they do the IPO on the NYSE they are bound by the exact same laws regarding truthful disclosure as any other company listed there).
As to the Saudi government planning 911....take that over to one of the conspiracy theory threads, I'm sure it will be appreciated. :roll:

Rockman is as dumb as they come and never sites any sources. he is nothing more than a paid troll and based on his 'no worries' arguments i can safely say they are paying for shit these days. sad...


first of all sources are sited all the time, second of all I wish someone would pay me. I've been retired for years and now have very little invested in oil and gas related stocks (some pipelines and that is it). Given you haven't posted a coherent statement as yet I'm not sure how you feel justified in pointing the finger at anyone. That might be hard to do when you have to keep wiping the drool from your mouth as you type. :roll:
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby Cliffhanger1983 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:46:22

Rockdoc here are some Peer Reviewed Scholarly sources for ya!


NASA Study: Industrial Civilization is headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2012)
http://jayhanson.us/_Biology/OvershootCollapse.pdf

UK Royal Society Study: Now, for the First Time, a Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 4/20122845

Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research shows we're nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites ... r_2014.pdf

Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: in Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
http://www.feasta.org/2012/06/17/trade- ... -collapse/


The End of the Human Race will be that it will Eventually Die of Civilization –Ralph W Emerson :twisted:
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:49:26

Muree bin Ali bin Issa al-Asiri, who was found in possession of talismans, was executed in the southern Najran province in June 2012. A Saudi woman, Amina bin Salem Nasser,[27] was executed for being convicted of practising sorcery and witchcraft in December 2011 in the northern province of Jawf, and a Sudanese man (Abdul Hamid Bin Hussain Bin Moustafa al-Fakki) was executed in a car park in Medina for the same reason in September 20, 2011.[28][29][30]
Saudi law theoretically allows the death penalty for many crimes:
Treason
Espionage[9]
Murder[7]
Rape[7]
Terrorism
Drug smuggling
Apostasy (Apostates are sentenced to beheading but are usually given three days to repent and return to Islam.)[7]
Armed robbery[7]
Atheism[10]
Blasphemy[7]
Burglary if aggravated circumstances, including recidivism[9]
Adultery (Unmarried adulterers can be sentenced to 100 lashes, married ones can be sentenced to stoning.)[11]
Sexual misconduct
Sodomy, homosexuality, or lesbianism (If a man or woman is sodomized by their own consent, then they will also be sentenced to death along with the sodomizer.)
Sorcery or witchcraft[5][12][13][14]
Theft (fourth conviction)
Waging war on God[15][16]
Murder[edit]
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:57:17

yeah P, they are also royal hypocrites. I read a story of how the loved being entertained by prostitutes when in NYC. So, they just like give the "right" impressions to their people that they are good Muslims. But in reality they are as greedy and immoral as anybody.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 16:59:34

No one defends SA except folks who depend on the Kingdom for a living.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 19:12:51

Rockdoc here are some Peer Reviewed Scholarly sources for ya!


which have nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. So why post them?
Cognitive dissonance perhaps?

yeah P, they are also royal hypocrites. I read a story of how the loved being entertained by prostitutes when in NYC. So, they just like give the "right" impressions to their people that they are good Muslims. But in reality they are as greedy and immoral as anybody.


well first off you "read a story" which is hardly something that would be accepted in a court of law (even the worst one) as proof. Secondly, you stated
But in reality they are as greedy and immoral as anybody.

So, in essence, they are no different than anybody else. Which has been my observation over the number of years I spent in the Middle East. They are people just like anywhere else. They have their religion, they have their beliefs and just like in North America or Europe or anywhere else there is a wide range of belief and adherence to practice. There are Saudis who, though Muslim, do not practice the faith with any more devotion than a gangster in Chicago who attends mass and takes confession on a regular basis. There are some who are very religious but it does not get in the way of business any more than religion gets in the way of a number of very successful CEOs in the US (eg. Indra Nooyi who is a devout Hindu and also CEO of Pepsico; Daniel Amos who is a devout Methodist and CEO of Aflac; Bill Marriott, patriarch of the Marriott hotel family and former CEO and a high ranking member in the Church of Latter Day Saints).

Trying to portray them as some evil race of terrorist devils as Pstarr seems to think they are and then somehow link that to a belief that they are lying about oil and gas is at best naive but more likely ignorant.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 19:25:13

Your points are valid Rockdoc. However, the lying part to me is not about their character or such, it is simply about the fact that they have been so dependent of the success of their Oil and Gas Enterprise. When the well being and welfare of you and all those around you depend literally on the continued success of an endeavor, you may just lie to protect its continued ascendancy. That is not too far fetched.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 19:29:52

Oh and when you are as rich as KSA is, you can bribe almost any entity to go along with your lies.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 19:40:12

Cheney lied about weapons of mass destruction . . . to get at all of Iraq's oil. We know that (except those in the oil business) Try this for the truth: Newsweek, 5/19/15: DICK CHENEY’S BIGGEST LIE It only took ten year for all that truth to come out. :x
The real question should be: “Given what we knew then...” Bush hawks knew there was no good intelligence establishing that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). And in what could easily be interpreted as near-treason, they never told the president about the weakness of the intelligence, several former high-ranking officials from the administration have told me.


The Saudi's lie about their oil also. Give the media ten years and that truth will come out also. Unfortunately we won't have tens years to appreciate it. :cry:
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 20:26:40

Oh and when you are as rich as KSA is, you can bribe almost any entity to go along with your lies


OK for the fifth time and counting their reserves have been audited by Gaffney Cline & Associates and DeGolyer and MacNaughton, two of the largest and most respected reserve auditing firms in the world. When they sign a reserve report they are legally responsible and can be charged by SEC, TSX or whoever the regulatory body is. As well once it got out in the market that they had "lied" or jigged a report they would never get hired again by a publicly traded company (no audit committee would touch them for fear of negative repercusions in the market). Exactly who are they going to bribe...the entire NYSE committee in charge of IPO's? The audit firms who would be giving up millions of dollars a year in business if they were caught (which they would be)? Both are as far-fetched as one can imagine.

Cheney lied about weapons of mass destruction . . . to get at all of Iraq's oil. We know tha


apparently, you don't know anything. Did the US suddenly get all of Iraq's oil? No it did not. In fact no US company won a bid to develop Iraq oil, a complete shutout. There was zero benefit to US oil and gas companies other than service companies who are paid for work (i.e they do not get compensated with the right to lift oil).The fact of the matter is US imports of oil actually decreased after the Iraq war and are only just recently getting back to the state they were previously.

The Saudi's lie about their oil also. Give the media ten years and that truth will come out also


Horseshit. Once the IPO is executed all of the information including reserve reports and financial reports become public documents, available to anyone.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 20:43:50

Well, then I must burst the bubble of your well crafted storyline. Look at Exxon, lied for decades about what it knew about Climate change. This is all too typical of what Governments and Corporations do. They lie. How much more when the very fabric and stability of Civilization is at stake. And to boot when no Plan B exists. The stakes could not be higher. And so Countries and Corporations alike will be lying to keep this Boat afloat a while longer. You are truly underestimating the nature of what is happening.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 20:58:00

Look at Exxon, lied for decades about what it knew about Climate change.


well first off according to Exxon they did research that was all published (in the record for anyone to make up their own mind) and their view then and now is that there is a lot of uncertainty. That is the same view by a number of very well known climate scientists including Judith Curry. Regardless of that, there was no regulations or laws surrounding anything whatsoever to do with climate change and disclosure whereas there are regulations and laws around reserve reporting that are well known and well understood. The two aren't even close and certainly not analogous whatsoever. You might as well compare ice skates to bicycles.

This is all too typical of what Governments and Corporations do. They lie


and statements like that are all too typical of the doomer conspiracy theory types. Everyone is dirty, everyone is trying to put something over on someone else, the government is trying to hurt you, corporations are trying to steal your money. Do you realize how pathetic that attitude is and how you appear to folks on this site who have a bit of sanity and common sense?
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 20:59:51

onlooker wrote:Well, then I must burst the bubble of your well crafted storyline. Look at Exxon, lied for decades about what it knew about Climate change.


The science of climate change is easy to understand and has been around far longer than An Inconvenient Truth. It's not necessary for Exxon to lie as society doesn't want to accept it (hence it being an "inconvenient" truth). That's why we have President Trump. Therefore the real-world damage of Exxon's disinfo campaign is, well, not that big of a deal.

Image

Probably the one most valuable takeaway I had from reading The Oil Drum was the psychology articles. Wasn't Nate Hagens the author of those? They went into detail on tragedy of the commons, etc... I think those who flog the conspiracy theory narrative are really trying to avoid personal accountability. That doesn't mean big oil and big ag and what not aren't doing their best to brainwash us or that they don't deserve our disgust. It's despicable to be sure. But in the end it's just NOT necessary because we're not smarter than yeast.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby onlooker » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 21:09:24

First off, I utilized Exxon because of the gravity of climate change and how that connects with the gravity of the PO situation. But I forget that you are not up on the latest practically unanimous scientific certainty of AGW. Look I am not a numbers guy like Short nor am I in the Oil and Gas business like you Rockdoc. I will not persue this further out of respect for your knowledge. I am just saying that we all should feel jaded and cynical with year after year of lies and misinformation coming from "official" sources. Perhaps I and others are totally wrong and we have years to decades of BAU and the reporting and stats from official sources are legit. But you and others surely should reconsider in being so ready to believe what you are being told.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby asg70 » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 21:14:58

onlooker wrote:you and others surely should reconsider in being so ready to believe what you are being told.


Onlooker, how often do you bring a link here that's from a source other than Zerohedge? You're the last to school us on vetting information sources. You build your own reality brick-by-brick by cherry-picking your sources. So you really don't practice what you preach.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Sat 14 Oct 2017, 23:03:04

70 - "...aren't doing their best to brainwash us...". I'm always curious when I hear such statements. Can you give a few SPECIFIC examples of such brainwashing devices? And while you're at it can you explain why you and a very small minority have not been brainwashed? IOW compared to the vast majority consumers who have shown little to no effort to reduce their production of GHG.

Those brainwashing techniques must be extremely effective given how very few consumers are giving up their burning of fossil fuels.
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby EdwinSm » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 06:07:30

The BBC reports on a possible problem with listing in New York:

BBC wrote:New York is another possible listing destination, but the FT said some members of the Saudi royal family are worried about legal risks, citing US terrorism legislation that would allow citizens to sue Saudi Arabia.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41627231
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Re: Saudi Aramco Reportedly Shelves IPO In “Face-Saving” Mov

Unread postby Cog » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 08:30:40

In the same article you cited Ed, Aramco stated that they are on track for a 2018 IPO. There is a lot of wishful thinking in the doomer world about Saudi Arabia crashing and burning. Not happening. There is a boatload of money to be made by the banks and the Royals on this deal and green is the only consideration here.
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