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Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & California

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Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & California

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 12 Jun 2014, 19:28:17

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Russian nuclear-capable bombers intercepted off California coast

A spokesperson for the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) confirmed this week that a fleet of Russian bombers set off alarms in the United States after coming within 50 miles of California’s Pacific coast.

Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a spokesman for NORAD, told Washington Free Beacon reporter Bill Gertz that a pair of Tu-95 Bear H aircraft maintained by Russia came close to US airspace during practice bombing while four of the planes were conducting bombing runs near Alaska. According to Nuclear Threat Initiative nonprofit organization, Russia has 29 Tu-95 MS6 Bear H6s and 30 Tu-95 MS16 Bear H16s, which are equipped to fire both traditional and nuclear payloads at targets from the air.

David told the Beacon that this week’s incident occurred on Monday afternoon and was caught quickly by radar systems that monitored American air defense zones. The radar spotted all four Russian aircraft, he said, and two F-22 fighter jets used by the US Air Force were then mobilized to intercept the bombers.

“After tracking the bombers as they flew eastward, two of the four Bears turned around and headed west toward the Russian Far East,” Gertz wrote. “The remaining two nuclear-capable bombers then flew southeast and around 9:30 P.M. entered the US northern air defense zone off the coast of Northern California.

Those two aircraft, he added, made it within 50 miles of the coast before turning around. The pilots, Davis told the Beacon, appeared to have “acted professionally” and that their behavior was on par with activity that’s “not unusual” for long-range aviation training missions typically conducted by Russia during the summer months. Indeed, in recent weeks other Russian-owned Tu-95 bombers skirted UK airspace and have come close to US property in both Guam and California, The Aviationist reported last month. In March, Russia’s daily Nezavisimaya Gazeta, said the nation’s Strategic Missile Forces began a three-day drill to make sure there was sufficient readiness to conduct a nuclear offensive.

“We assess this was part of training,” David added of this week’s incident, “And they did not enter territorial airspace.”

In spite of its age, David Cenciotti wrote for The Aviationist, the Tu-94 “still represents a significant strategic weapon in Putin’s arsenal.”
http://rt.com/usa/165588-russia-nuclear-bombers-california/


The NORAD spokesman said this was "not unusual" for training. But I wonder, when exactly did Russia start this up again? It had stopped at some point, back in the 90s, so when did this become normal?

I've certainly never read an article like this before, about Russian bombers approaching Alaska, two going home after intercepted, then two going down to California.

Isn't this unnecessarily provocative?

The US isn't doing bomber runs 50 miles from Russia, is it?
Last edited by Sixstrings on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 20:07:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off California coast

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 12 Jun 2014, 19:48:35

According to the Daily Mail article, US scrambled two f-22's in the Alaskan aleutian islands, and then another separate NORAD alert and scramble of two f-15's when two of the original four bombers showed up off California.

Notice how the RT article makes it all sound normal, and not unusual for training. But turns out that it is unusual, and far as I know Russia had stopped all this before Ptuin.

Republican congressman Mike Conaway says it's an "intentional provocation" and that Putin is doing this to "taunt the US." He also says the F-22 raptors could have squashed the bombers "like baby seals."

Norad spokesman Navy Captain Jeff Davis told the Washington Free Beacon: 'The last time we saw anything similar was two years ago on the Fourth of July.'

A defense official said the four bombers also were supported by two IL-78 aerial refueling tankers that were used for mid-air refueling during the operation this week.

The bomber incursion is the latest Russian nuclear saber-rattling amid stepped up tensions over Moscow's military annexation of Ukraine's Crimea.

Texas Republican Mike Conaway, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, called the Russian flights 'intentional provocations', the Washington Free Beacon reported.

'Putin is doing this specifically to try to taunt the U.S. and exercise, at least in the reported world, some sort of saber-rattling, muscle-flexing kind of nonsense. Truth of the matter is we would have squashed either one of those [bombers] like baby seals.'


'It's a provocation and it's unnecessary. But it fits in with [Putin's] macho kind of saber-rattling,' he said, adding that he expects Russia will carry out more of these kinds of incidents in the future.
The Tu-95 Bear is the fastest propeller-driven airplane ever built. It was originally designed to carry two nuclear bombs to targets in the continental U.S.

Later versions carried cruise missiles for long-range stand-off missions.
The Bear has also been used for reconnaissance, especially by the Soviet/Russian Navy which used the aircraft to locate U.S. aircraft carrier task forces.

Last month, in a maneuver straight out of the Cold War, a Russian fighter jet purposely flew 100-feet in front of the nose of an American spy plane in April, US officials confirmed on Monday.
The fly-by over the Sea of Okhotsk between Russia and Japan was described by one US official as 'straight out of a movie'.

The same U.S. official said the Russian jet put the lives of the US Air Force RC-135U in danger and called it 'one of the most dangerous close passes in decades.'

It is the latest source of concern for U.S. officials since a heightening of U.S.-Russian tensions following Moscow's intervention in Ukraine.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2655992/USAF-jets-scrambled-TWICE-nuclear-capable-Russian-bombers-practise-run-Alaska-fly-50-miles-Californian-coast.html


According to the article, just a month ago another Russian jet did a very dangerous 100 foot flyby off the nose of a US plane.

Incidentally, those f-22 raptor's look impressive:

Image
Image
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A U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor aircraft executing a supersonic flyby

But I was reading some other information on these Russian planes: they're the fastest prop plane ever built and launch cruise missiles. So, being just 50 miles off the coast, that's not a lot of time to react -- they could do one of these training "drills" and then just fire the cruise missiles, it's not enough time for an interceptor to do anything about it, no?

If that's the case, which looks like it is, then 50 miles is too close for comfort and really the US should extend a air defense exclusive zone farther out then 50 darn miles.

Also in the news, Russia just sent a fleet of 24 warships, and bombing drills, into the Baltic (NATO):

Russia sends 24 warships, bombers to Baltic
http://rt.com/news/165464-russia-baltic-drills-nato/


And I don't have a link but I saw somewhere that the UK got a Russian bomber flyby too.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 12 Jun 2014, 20:39:46

ZH quotes a retired lt general saying that Russia never got this close with bombers before, even at the height of the cold war.

"At the height of the Cold War I do not remember them getting this close," notes a retired Air Force Lt. Gen. as The Washington Free Beacon reports that four Russian strategic bombers triggered U.S. air defense systems while conducting practice bombing runs near Alaska this week, with two of the Tu-95 Bear H aircraft coming within 50 miles of the California coast, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (Norad) confirmed Wednesday.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-12/norad-admits-f-22-fighter-jets-intercepted-4-russian-bombers-50-miles-california-coa


I was reading some more information that says these Russian planes are actually designed to fire their nuke cruise missiles a thousand miles off the coast. So, as a test of our air defense this is a failure if they weren't caught until 50 miles off California.

Otherwise, in the real deal, they would have fired the cruise missiles much farther out.

I'm having a convo with myself again, I'll stop posting see what y'all think. :lol:
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby basil_hayden » Thu 12 Jun 2014, 21:47:11

Sixstrings wrote:I'm having a convo with myself again, I'll stop posting see what y'all think. :lol:



I doubt this.

As far as when this started, it was when they started making cash from oil.

As far as when it will end, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby AgentR11 » Thu 12 Jun 2014, 23:51:50

6.. They can legally fly a lot closer than 50 miles if they wish. Its international airspace... 12nm is all they are really obliged to obey. If they wanted to be provocative, they could REALLY be provocative.

I'm a little disturbed at the language used concerning the fighter intercept, "Truth of the matter is we would have squashed either one of those [bombers] like baby seals.'"; that gives me zilch comfort. Of course the bombers get blown up; that isn't the question, the question is can they get their munitions flying before the F22's kill them.

If we aren't in first strike mode, and they are, unannounced, then I have a feeling that such a bomber COULD get them away, and several west coast cities would end up as craters, but of course, having killed the bombers makes it a fair deal, no? (Conaway may be doing a bit of distraction dance, he may know, and be trying to divert attention from the obvious).

So, in this instance, as we didn't kill the bombers preemptively, we are acknowledging that if Russia chooses to strike first, her blow will land, and hundreds of millions of US citizens will die. OTOH, if we go aggressive, and down the bombers, then Russia pretty much has the green light to splatter Kiev as it represents a similar threat in the hands of NATO. Again, the prez and the professionals make the right call, no one dies, while 6 wants to rewrite international law and start wwIII.

I don't know whether the Russians stopped long distance training flights; but if they did, it was terribly foolish. MAD only works when both parties believe the other is strong and capable, and have evidence that such is the case.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 00:23:17

AgentR11 wrote:I'm a little disturbed at the language used concerning the fighter intercept, "Truth of the matter is we would have squashed either one of those [bombers] like baby seals.'"; that gives me zilch comfort. Of course the bombers get blown up; that isn't the question, the question is can they get their munitions flying before the F22's kill them.


Yeah, I kind of figured that out too afterward.

To argue the "don't worry" side for a moment -- I know subjectivist has said the US boomer fleet was decimated in cutbacks, but I'm assuming we've still got at least a few?

So, that's the same as these bombers, those boomers can cruise close to Russian territory and launch their missiles with no time for Russia to respond.

One wonders -- were these bombers armed, though? With nuke warheads? There were live flights like that in the old days of bombers, in the cold war, but I don't know the protocols if that's really a defcon level or what.

But do we even know, if the Russian planes were armed with nuke cruise missiles. :?:

Isn't the whole thing a bit dangerous? China doesn't do this. Why does Russia have to. :?: Just because they always have? What's the point?

Both sides have ICBM's too, of course, so what's the difference. Russia has those mobile ones that they can hide in the woods. I think our minutemen are just buried in bunkers, so there's no hiding advantage as the Russians have.

We have some shoot-down tech, they don't.

Saw another article out by the way. Defense department is working on scramjet engines. So, non-ballistic cruise missiles that can get anywhere on the planet in under an hour. Long term, looks like US has the tech advantage.

If we aren't in first strike mode, and they are, unannounced, then I have a feeling that such a bomber COULD get them away, and several west coast cities would end up as craters, but of course, having killed the bombers makes it a fair deal, no? (Conaway may be doing a bit of distraction dance, he may know, and be trying to divert attention from the obvious).


If they hit us, protocol is a range of options, and I think a president faced with that would choose tit for tat. They take a couple cities, and we take a couple. If we detect full launch, then we do a full launch.

At least in the 90s, Russian protocol was full launch no matter what. Which makes it dangerous if Norway sends up a science missile and the message isn't passed along and Russian radar alerts go off. (as happened in the 90s)

So, in this instance, as we didn't kill the bombers preemptively, we are acknowledging that if Russia chooses to strike first, her blow will land, and hundreds of millions of US citizens will die.


No, they are CRUISE missiles. So what's the range on that. I thought I read somewhere these planes can launch their cruises from a thousand miles out, but that sounds too far. :?:

I don't know how many of these bombers they have. Hm. If they had enough to come in from the west and east coasts, then yes, sounds like you're right, and that's first strike capability -- the cruise missiles wouldnt be detected soon enough like ICBMs would.

Russia pretty much has the green light to splatter Kiev as it represents a similar threat in the hands of NATO.


What are you talking about, we can't shoot down their bombers. Unless there's an incident and they didn't turn back from within domestic airspace. Other than that, we can't ever shoot them down preemptively, that's declaring nuclear war. Unless they fire their payload.

Again, the prez and the professionals make the right call, no one dies, while 6 wants to rewrite international law and start wwIII.


This bomber thing isn't a panic moment, they're just being sabre-rattling obnoxious jerks with it. We don't need a response, at this time, other than more distancing from Russia -- friends don't fly bombers on your border -- AND, we need to keep staying #1 in military tech, and military power, and keep developing missile defense systems.

Looking to our defenses isn't "starting WWIII."

I don't know whether the Russians stopped long distance training flights; but if they did, it was terribly foolish. MAD only works when both parties believe the other is strong and capable, and have evidence that such is the case.


They're not the soviets. MAD was supposed to be over. We're not really in cold war. They don't really want that. Because they cannot afford it Agent, if they want cold war then US can outspend them and do all kinds of things to destabilize their economy and even get oil and gas prices down, intelligence ops, on and on.

Like I said before, US won the last cold war. Whole thing is nonsense. If they just want to shoot their guns off and be badass, then why not ally with us and help us be global cop, why can't Russia ever do that, and use its military to solve a problem and bring stability somewhere. THAT would be big leagues. THAT would actually be the biggest threat to the US, power wise, if other nations saw that Russia could lead and solve problems.

But Russia doesn't. So that's to our advantage. Something is working for us -- Russia doesn't have scramjets in the works, we do.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 00:48:05

Sixstrings wrote:They're not the soviets. MAD was supposed to be over. We're not really in cold war. They don't really want that. Because they cannot afford it Agent, if they want cold war then US can outspend them and do all kinds of things to destabilize their economy and even get oil and gas prices down, intelligence ops, on and on.


The thing the Soviets made the error on was in thinking you need to outspend your MAD opposition. That was untrue. You only need enough nukes to end the world. They got in a competition they couldn't win. Russia, this time around, isn't matching us spending wise, and isn't trying to. Heck, China spends more than Russia.. a LOT more. And Russia will be ever closer tied to China. Maybe China can turn them around with regard to finesse technology, maybe not, but China can buy all the oil, gas, steel, coal, and anything else the Russians might want to sell them. It is now in China's interest to keep Russia stable and exporting. They have the finances and the motivation to do it regardless of US designs.

If they just want to shoot their guns off and be badass, then why not ally with us and help us be global cop,


Because the global cop just got caught trying to eviscerate Russia. You may not give two flips about a seaport on the Crimean' peninsula. The Russians however, care enough about it, to risk nuclear war over it.

But Russia doesn't. So that's to our advantage. Something is working for us -- Russia doesn't have scramjets in the works, we do.


Love the scramjet tech. It is pretty cool. Deployment of one pushing a payload anywhere is likely decades away. I really don't see the cost/benefit in the thing. Smells like Space Shuttle to me.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 00:58:14

Agent, Putin and the Russian nationalists just have it out for us. They stop just short of ever hitting us, but they keep waving a bat around.

It's like, what the hell do they want. They've got it out for us so much that they'll hurt their own economy over it, and go backwards in development over it. What-is-the-point. ????

This deal with China is just a prepaid gas card, discounted gas at that. China always wants cheap stuff and they're no replacement for the West, and Germans paying top dollar for gas and all that trade with Europe.

Watch Putin get too close to North Korea and suddenly China sours on Russia. Watch Russia get too powerful, and China sours. China has an interest in containing Russia, hello?

They're making no sense, they're just being aggressive with us like some kind of phantom limb syndrome from the Soviet cold war. They want the cold war back, when cold war makes no sense for them, and it failed for them the last time around. Hello?

The last time Russia did this bomber thing was two years ago on the FOURTH OF JULY. That couldn't have been a coincidence.

And this year, just back in late April, a SU-27 turned around to show its missiles and buzzed one of our planes missing by a hundred feet off the nose:

On April 23, a Russian SU-27 interceptor jet turned to reveal its air-to-air missiles and recklessly flew within 100 feet of a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft over the Sea of Okhotsk, north of Japan.

In the last decade, 50 bombers have triggered the U.S. air defenses.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nuclear-capable-russian-bombers-intercepted-50-miles-calif-coast-article-1.1826944


The SU-27:

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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby AgentR11 » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 01:19:20

6.. you keep going on about how this or that will hurt their economy.... right after we served notice to them that they may only spend the dollars they earn when and where we permit. Whats the point of making lots of dollars if you aren't allowed to spend them.

They really have no choices going forward. They have to become reliant on China. So expect the NK thing to go nowhere without the private consent of China. Expect the E.Ukraine thing to deteriorate continuously until the West recognizes Crimea as part of Russia; and expect the mild saber rattling exercises to continue so as to remind the world that pushing Russia the same way you'd push Iraq is a really bad idea.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 03:18:25

Maverick to Goose: "If it was a real fight, they would have fired. They are just trying to piss us off."

This is a fallback to the provocative tactics of the Cold War. Remember when the US Pacific Fleet sailed between Taiwan and mainland China during Clinton's second term? That tactic seems to have backfired, the Chinese are building their own Carrier Battle Groups now.

Putin is acting as if Russia were still a superpower. But it's not. However he perceives a weakness in our political leadership, and in our collective willingness to confront evil. He is correct in that analysis, but if he tries to go too far, there will be war.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 04:37:30

When I last looked the Sea of Okhotsk,was a lot closer to Russia than USA. 8O

Sixstrings wrote:Agent, Putin and the Russian nationalists just have it out for us. They stop just short of ever hitting us, but they keep waving a bat around.

It's like, what the hell do they want. They've got it out for us so much that they'll hurt their own economy over it, and go backwards in development over it. What-is-the-point. ????

This deal with China is just a prepaid gas card, discounted gas at that. China always wants cheap stuff and they're no replacement for the West, and Germans paying top dollar for gas and all that trade with Europe.

Watch Putin get too close to North Korea and suddenly China sours on Russia. Watch Russia get too powerful, and China sours. China has an interest in containing Russia, hello?

They're making no sense, they're just being aggressive with us like some kind of phantom limb syndrome from the Soviet cold war. They want the cold war back, when cold war makes no sense for them, and it failed for them the last time around. Hello?

The last time Russia did this bomber thing was two years ago on the FOURTH OF JULY. That couldn't have been a coincidence.

And this year, just back in late April, a SU-27 turned around to show its missiles and buzzed one of our planes missing by a hundred feet off the nose:

On April 23, a Russian SU-27 interceptor jet turned to reveal its air-to-air missiles and recklessly flew within 100 feet of a U.S. RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft over the Sea of Okhotsk, north of Japan.

In the last decade, 50 bombers have triggered the U.S. air defenses.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nuclear-capable-russian-bombers-intercepted-50-miles-calif-coast-article-1.1826944


The SU-27:

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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby careinke » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 06:14:53

OK, I have some expertise on this subject which may help.

I was the AWACS Mission Crew Commander that intercepted the last bears to go to Cuba. It was in the early 90's, like 90 or 91. The date was February 8th, my birthday. :) Also got the mission on their way back 13 Feb, my brothers birthday. On those two occasions, the Bears were definitely closer than 50 miles to the East coast, so the General quoted was wrong. Don't worry, there were US fighters escorting them all the way down the coast (and they were closer than 100 feet at times).

The US has an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ), that extends about 200 miles off both coasts. NORAD allows two minutes to identify any aircraft entering the ADIZ. If the aircraft can't be identified in two minutes, fighters are scrambled to go take a look.

When I was In the Air Force, (Granted over 20 years ago), Bears would test Alaskas Air Defense but never go as far south as the Continental US West coast. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I have ever heard of a Bear in the Western ADIZ.

And just in case you have not figured it out, we do the same thing the Russians did, ALL THE TIME. It's a great way to gather info on a countries Air Defense Capabilities.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby charmcitysking » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 06:37:33

50 miles is too close for comfort. We need Dick Cheney back in charge of NORAD - he'll keep us safe.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Timo » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 11:13:52

Why didn't Sarah Palin warn us that the Russians were coming??!! She can see them from her front porch!!! :badgrin:

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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Subjectivist » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 12:19:10

Sure our forces were severely cut back, but the worst issue is the manning level not the pure quantity. If you have two million weapons but only one million people who know how to maintain and use them half of them were just a waste of money. Worse is having a low staff number trying to maintain a large stockpile because things get missed and staff burns out from over work and doesn't reenlist reducing he skill level of your staff.

We can blow our civilization apart about ten different ways, it doesn't matter if you use cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, bombs, or crossbows. Killing is killing and all of it is bad. Bad for people, bad for the environment, bad for civilization. There is no upside to war and no upside to killing.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby evilgenius » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 12:35:17

I wouldn't worry if they attempted a surprise and did get shots off. Cruise missiles don't fly that fast. They aren't super-sonic. They could easily be shot down by a fighter or its air to air missiles. This would only be a worry if the bombers came in large enough numbers, why risk the retaliation if all you get is one city, and had some kind of fighter support, at least to the point of initial contact. The best intel they could get from this would be if the F-22's came in too fast, not respecting what they could be up against, therefore making themselves vulnerable.

Incidentally, not long ago we sent one of our ship based anti-missile systems into the Black Sea. I'm sure this pissed the Russians off too. I don't think we sent it with many other ships around it to protect it either. It was the same kind of test only maneuver.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby radon1 » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 17:36:00

KaiserJeep wrote: there will be war.


There won't be war. There is war already. American gunmen are killing Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine. Watch at 1:30:

http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/260934

(the video should be on youtube somewhere).

If that's the case, then this gives the situation an entirely new dimension.

What the heck are you doing? How long you think you are going to harass the world with impunity, spicing it with your "fight for our freedom" and "testing our resolve" empty talk?

Till you can get away with it, obviously, aren't you.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Fishman » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 21:23:45

"They're making no sense," Never make this assumption, assume instead you don't know their motives,
And as to "Putin is acting as if Russia were still a superpower. But it's not. However he perceives a weakness in our political leadership, and in our collective willingness to confront evil. He is correct in that analysis, but if he tries to go too far, there will be war"
If he perceives weakness in our political leadership (and who doesn't) then war is far more likely, and if he is a student of The Art of War, then he either doesn't even have to fight a war, or he wins it. Military is but a projection of politics.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 21:41:12

radon1 wrote:There won't be war. There is war already. American gunmen are killing Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine. Watch at 1:30:

http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/260934

(the video should be on youtube somewhere).


I'm guessing that's a Russian TV site.

If it's true, and not state propaganda, then there should be some other kind of journalist's article you can link, or it should be on youtube. :?:

Can you at least explain what the video shows.

I have no idea what the vid shows and you didn't give much info. I'm assuming maybe it shows a merc firing a gun, and I'm just gonna take a guess here that it's not even conclusive the gun hits anyone. Just taking a guess. I'd rather not click a mysterious link and I don't speak Russian anyway. If you can post a youtube or something, or RT, I'd look at that kind of source.

*IF* it's a merc corp, then those aren't controlled by the US gov, they are private security companies out for hire.

I would imagine that the oligarch governors in the east, that have money but no army, have hired mercs.

If there is an atrocity and you've got evidence of it then post more about it and I'm also sure it will hit the news over here, Americans actually want to know about that kind of thing.

Quite often though, the official Russian state propaganda has fallen apart under scrutiny, throughout this whole Ukraine thing.

What about all those nazis that were supposedly going to win the election? Well, we had the election, and guess what the nazis only got like 2% of the vote. And who won? A moderate fellow who is the same party that Yanu was. Party of regions. So hardly a radical. Obviously many in the east voted for him. That's how democracy works -- you really can trust ordinary people to have a vote, and it works out okay.
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Re: Russian nuke bombers interecepted off Alaska & Californi

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 13 Jun 2014, 22:15:31

And that really belongs in one of the Ukraine threads.

The topic of this thread are Russian cruise missile bombers off California.

If Russia is upset about Ukraine, the place to fight that fight is in Ukraine, and bringing it to our border is an escalation. *Proxy wars are a lot safer* so both sides should just stick to that, if that's how it has to be.

If Russia ever does amp it up against the US, here in the Homeland (I hate that word :roll:), then don't you realize the US will respond in kind? Tit for tat? We've got reactionary right wingers in our Congress, just as you do in your duma, who don't appear to think too deeply about things.

If Putin goes out of his way to drill it into Americans' heads that Russia is a foe, then Americans will start to think that Radon, and our congressmen that control these budgets and what gets spent where, will start to think that way too.

Seriously, Russia really has been starting up a cold war with a very reluctant US. Eventually Russia is going to get that cold war, but nobody over here wanted it, you can google these things and see the truth -- our right wing presidential candidate (mitt romney) was laughed at in 2012 for talking about Russia.

Putin's got the poll numbers moving in the wrong direction, over here, and there's no way it can be good for Russia to have a real cold war with the US. Russia can't afford it, it is not the Soviet Union, and even the USSR couldn't afford it.

Why pick this fight? Why?

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