[Sixstrings]

Well anyhow, about the topic of this thread, seems that it was probably a spy. (for one thing, the US government doesn't want to talk about it or make an issue of it)

It should be remembered, of course, that certainly there's a lot of spying going on from the Russian embassy in DC -- and all the lower level Russian diplomatic "attaches" that are running around. OF COURSE it's about spying. That's half an embassy's job. OUR ALLIES spy on us, too. This is just reality, all nations have spies and everyone spies on each other, and they always have.

What's different though, is just that over here the FBI is NEVER going to break a Russian spy's shoulder. And they don't chase them around, and into the embassy, like it's keystone cops or something.

The way this is supposed to be handled, is you simply arrest and deport diplomatic spies, if it goes too far.

Of course, Russia also had an incident where an opposition leader was gunned down right outside the kremlin.. so, yeah, things are a bit different in Russia.

U.S. accuses Russian warship of aggressive maneuvers near U.S. navy ship

A Russian warship carried out aggressive and erratic maneuvers close to a U.S. Navy ship in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, the second such Cold War-style incident there in a matter of weeks, the U.S. military said on Saturday.

The U.S. European Command said the Russian frigate, Yaroslav Mudry, came unnecessarily close to the guided-missile cruiser USS San Jacinto on June 30 and maneuvered in its wake.

In a statement, EUCOM said the U.S. ship had not been threatened and it maintained course and speed. "But the closing distance by Yaroslav Mudry before the ship turned away from San Jacinto is considered a high risk maneuver, highly unprofessional, and contrary to international maritime regulations."

Referring to the Yaroslav Mudry's close "aggressive, erratic maneuvers", EUCOM SAID: "These actions can unnecessarily escalate tensions between countries, and could result in dangerous miscalculations or accidents."

There have been several similar incidents - reminiscent of Cold War confrontations between the rival superpowers - at sea and in the air in recent months, with the U.S. and Russian militaries accusing each other of dangerous approaches in international waters and airspace.

U.S. officials said earlier this month that on June 17, the Yaroslav Mudry came within 315 yards (288 meters) of the USS Gravely. They termed that incident "unsafe and unprofessional." The Russian Defense Ministry disputed this.

At the time of the incident, the San Jacinto was carrying out operations against Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria with the aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower.

In another incident in April, the U.S. military said Russian SU-24 bombers had simulated attack passes near the USS Donald Cook in the Baltic Sea.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said at the time that the behavior of the Russian pilots was provocative and dangerous, adding that "under the rules of engagement that could have been a shoot-down".
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-navy-idUSKCN0ZH64S

Despite tensions, we're still "frenemies:"

Russia, US Want to Cooperate in Syria But 'Are Suspicious of Each Other'
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20160702/1042329990/russia-us-syria.html

EDIT: Just to note though, as far as what's ever been in the news, all the major espionage incidents have been from Russia. Democratic National Committee was hacked by the Russian government, and files taken. Russian government hacked the white house website, at one point.

And I forget all the things that have happened, but the national weather system was hacked too and had to go offline. That was a year or so ago.

China does a lot of espionage too, though more industrial. Only thing US has done in a long time was probably stuxnet, against the Iranian nuke program.

One thing about it -- Russia ought to be careful poking the bear too much. The US government / military establishment is like a big giant and it's slow to turn around to face some new thing poking at it, but once it DOES turn around and gets onto a cold war track, then it's gonna be stuck on that for a while. Like a big ship at sea, it's slow to turn but then stays the course once it does turn.

The Navy that keeps getting buzzed -- if that goes on, then eventually they are gonna start responding.

On Cold War stuff -- if Russia keeps it up, if they really do WANT a cold war, if they INSIST upon that.. then the US has a LOT of resources and the most advanced tech in the world, to fight a cold war.

Things really aren't a problem, unless the Russian government just ever goes TOO FAR at some point. I hope the Russian government understands that, that if there's ever an incident where they crash into one of our ships or some such, then that would permanently damage relations.

For the US / Western position -- the best thing to do would be to *wait Putin out*, and eventually there will be another president in Russia one day. All these problems there have been over these years, it is ALL because of Putin.

Eventually, Russia will be just another country like everybody else is, and both sides can start to disarm all these ICBMs. What Putin's been doing is concerning. Instead of nuclear disarmament, he's been building MORE icbms. And developing new kinds. This one is concerning:

Russia to test unstoppable 'Satan 2' stealth nuke capable of wiping out an ENTIRE NATION
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/russia-test-unstoppable-satan-2-7935675

It's the "most destructive nuclear missile every produced by mankind:"

https://youtu.be/9cHVNDE-XRM?t=13

It's madness, Russia. Just be another country in the Western world community -- that even CHINA is a part of, and all of Asia, what's so bad about that? Freedom brings in more economic growth, business, and tech innovation.

[Cid_Yama]

It is Uncle Scam and his self-anointed "manifest right" to "rule the world" that is the real unpardonable sin.

As presented in the corporate owned media. It is the indoctrination that is the sin.

Unindoctrinated, the American people would recognize people as people. But no, it's like the WWII propaganda that the Japanese were subhuman and stank.

If you go to Youtube, every copy of "You're a Sap, Mr Jap" most of them the Popeye cartoon, is nonfunctional.

[Cid_Yama]

Russia to test unstoppable 'Satan 2' stealth nuke capable of wiping out an ENTIRE NATION

They already have hypersonic reentry systems that are unstoppable. This is just fear mongering.

They have had the ability to take us out since the 1950's. They technology changes, but the capability remains.

And no, nothing can take out an entire nation except an all out nuclear strike that would eliminate everyone.

See "On the Beach".

[radon1]

You clearly suffer from Putin derangement syndrome.

Really? Cog says that I am Pu's worshiper, you say that I am Pu's deranger, or whoever. I am lost about my place in the world.

[AgentR11]

Really? Cog says that I am Pu's worshiper, you say that I am Pu's deranger, or whoever. I am lost about my place in the world.

Well you claim to not particularly support Putin.
You claim that you aren't of the "liberast" mindset.
You don't seem like a Communist Party type at least to me...

I would say, "lost about your place in the world", may just be an appropriate description.

[Sixstrings]

And no, nothing can take out an entire nation except an all out nuclear strike that would eliminate everyone.

Well, it can take out a nation the size of France, or Texas.

Poor U.S.-Russia relations increase risk of dirty bomb in Europe - experts

Former U.S. Secretary of Defence William Perry said he regretted the current lack of communication between the United States and Russia, which went into a deep freeze after Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea.

"We are about to recreate the conditions that nearly brought us to the brink of nuclear war" during the Cold War, Perry said.

Anatoly Adamishin, a former Russian Deputy Foreign Minister, argued that the U.S. has focused on a policy of "strangling Russia" and hoping for the departure of Russian President Vladimir Putin, which has the effect of putting Russia at the forefront of a list of U.S. enemies.

"The U.S. simply has to rethink its own policy: what should be in focus is nuclear reductions," he said. "Russia and the U.S. are not inherent enemies."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-islamic-state-nuclear-idUSKCN0YT1QA

Russia isn't being "strangled" by the world outside it -- it's had the iron fisted rule of Putin over it, that's the situation.

Russia seen putting new nuclear-capable missiles along NATO border by 2019

Russia is likely to deploy advanced nuclear-capable missiles in its European exclave of Kaliningrad by 2019, casting the move as a reply to a U.S.-backed missile shield, and may one day put them in Crimea too, sources close to its military predict.

That would fuel what is already the worst standoff between Russia and the West since the Cold War and put a swathe of territory in NATO members Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in the cross-hairs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-europe-shield-idUSKCN0Z90WT

U.S. can't ignore rising nuclear danger

Further compounding the danger is the fact that Russia lacks effective early-warning systems to help identify whether a nuclear attack is actually occurring. If this sounds like a Stanley Kubrick fantasy, it isn't. In 1995, Russian radars indicated a Norwegian weather rocket might be a nuclear missile heading for Russia, and staff prepared Russian President Boris Yeltsin's nuclear command briefcase for possible retaliation (which fortunately did not occur).

If this had happened during a major crisis, there is no telling what could have happened. The probability of a substantial false alarm coming in the midst of a major crisis may be low, but the potential consequences are the destruction of most of human civilization, so action to reduce even low probabilities is justified.

Given such risks, the next president will need to find a balance between assertively protecting U.S. interests against Russian encroachments and exercising restraint so as to avoid potentially nuclear crises and itchy Russian trigger fingers.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/opinions/u-s-russia-nuclear-tensions-roth/

[AgentR11]

Of course, Russia also had an incident where an opposition leader was gunned down right outside the kremlin.. so, yeah, things are a bit different in Russia.

No. Not "opposition leader". The opposition leader in Russia would be the leader of the Communist Party. The idgit that got gunned down was essentially the Russian equivalent of Lyndon LaRouche.

I get real tired of people using the word, "opposition" to describe a political party that couldn't get 5% of the vote if the US wrote them a trillion dollar check.

In another incident in April, the U.S. military said Russian SU-24 bombers had simulated attack passes near the USS Donald Cook in the Baltic Sea.

If Russia drove some corvettes with a few dozen nuclear tipped cruise missiles just a few miles off the coast of NYC or Washington DC, would you complain? (international waters are just a few miles out, EEZ is not territorial.) The Baltic is certainly a crowded place, but the Cook was very close to Kaliningrad and carrying out manuevers that could be mistaken for invasion support. We know NATO won't invade Kaliningrad, but the Russians believe that NATO's primary mission is to invade Russia at the first possible opportunity. Of course they'll challenge the Cook and force NATO to make a fire/no-fire decision.

And fwiw, the Cook stands no chance of survival at the location it was at if it opened fire on that Jet. None. Zilch.

One thing about it -- Russia ought to be careful poking the bear too much. The US government / military establishment is like a big giant and it's slow to turn around to face some new thing poking at it, but once it DOES turn around and gets onto a cold war track, then it's gonna be stuck on that for a while. Like a big ship at sea, it's slow to turn but then stays the course once it does turn.

But see, here's the problem, you and I both know NATO will not risk the survival of Chicago in order to invade Russia; so even if they provoke us into maximum cold war stance; Putin will NOT follow with the checkbook. Russia only needs to spend what is necessary to make the death of at least one NATO city highly likely in the event of an exchange, and NATO is completely, and totally deterred.

Russia can, in fact, successfully deter a trillion dollars worth of NATO spending with about 50-100 bln USD in defense budget.

Notice that ratio expanding again. How do you kill a block that has a much greater GDP than you? Make them spend 100:1. Putin *CAN* kill us the same way we killed the USSR; we need to be very careful about what we spend.

The Navy that keeps getting buzzed -- if that goes on, then eventually they are gonna start responding.

If by respond, you mean "fire on the airplane"; then the ship dies; within minutes. The plane is bait. It forces the NATO vessel to make a fire/no-fire decision. In all the locations that Russia has forced that decision, the cost to NATO of firing on the bait would be extremely high.

On Cold War stuff -- if Russia keeps it up, if they really do WANT a cold war, if they INSIST upon that.. then the US has a LOT of resources and the most advanced tech in the world, to fight a cold war.

Indeed we do. Enough to bankrupt ourselves a dozen times over just by passing an appropriations bill.

You know how you win a cold war? Make the other guy spend to much.

that if there's ever an incident where they crash into one of our ships or some such, then that would permanently damage relations.

Bumps get settled in court. No one goes to war over collisions.

For the US / Western position -- the best thing to do would be to *wait Putin out*, and eventually there will be another president in Russia one day. All these problems there have been over these years, it is ALL because of Putin.

Putin is the most pro-Western president Russia is likely to have this entire century. The people that might defeat him are NOT your liberast sell outs; they are the hot heads, both in United Russia, and in the Communist Party. Your 5% tin-foil guys have no chance.

Eventually, Russia will be just another country like everybody else is, and both sides can start to disarm all these ICBMs. What Putin's been doing is concerning. Instead of nuclear disarmament, he's been building MORE icbms. And developing new kinds. This one is concerning:

Modern ICBM's are essential in order for Russia to deter a NATO invasion of Russia. The modern cruise missiles help; but the ICBMs are what guarantee the conflict is too expensive for NATO to even contemplate.

It's madness, Russia. Just be another country in the Western world community -- that even CHINA is a part of, and all of Asia, what's so bad about that? Freedom brings in more economic growth, business, and tech innovation.

Russia does not want to be ruled by the Atlantic Empire. Sorry. They'll happily sell us oil and gas; but they are not going to obey edicts from the United States and European Union. Its just not going to happen.

[dissident]

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/07/02 ... sa-agents/

Instead of the propaganda hoax being propagated by little propaganda drone Six$ here is a real story about human rights abuse in the USA.



Photograph of a real victim and not some CIA shitball fake who should have been dispatched with extreme prejudice.

[Sixstrings]

Some news, I wonder what this is about:

Russia Fires Dozens of Military Officers in Baltic Region

MOSCOW — In a sweeping military shake-up, Russia has replaced the top commanders of its Baltic Fleet, which patrols a region that has become the main fault line between Russia and the West.

The exact reasons for the mass dismissal, involving dozens of officers, remain unclear. But the public nature of the abrupt change, announced on Wednesday by Defense Minister Sergei K. Shoigu, was unprecedented.

The fleet commander, Vice Admiral Viktor Kravchuk; his chief of staff, Vice Admiral Sergei Popov; and the other officers were fired for “dereliction of duty” and “distortion of the real state of things,” according to a statement by the Defense Ministry summarizing what the minister had said behind closed doors to senior military commanders. ...

The statement went on to say that the commanders had been responsible for “serious drawbacks in the organization of military training and everyday activities” and “lack of proper care for the personnel.”

“This is the first time in Russia’s modern history that commanders have been dismissed in such a way,” said Valentin Selivanov, a military analyst, retired admiral and former deputy head of the Russian Navy. “These commanders must have made a series of serious mistakes.” ...

With the additional deployments, the number of Russian service members deployed on the country’s western borders could grow by thousands, said Aleksei G. Arbatov, an expert at the Carnegie Moscow Center.

“The role of the Baltic Fleet is growing, but it can all spiral out of control,” Mr. Arbatov said. “NATO deploys a battalion, we respond by deploying an army. If we want to make Sweden and Finland join NATO, there is no better way to do it.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/world/europe/russia-fires-dozens-of-military-officers-in-baltic-region.html

Russia Orders Safety Overhaul in Tense Baltic Airspace

MOSCOW — Russia ordered its military on Saturday to draw up measures to increase the safety of the airspace over the Baltic Sea ...

The defense minister is considering making the use of transponders compulsory if NATO countries take similar measures, the statement said. ..

Russia's military has focused heavily on the Baltics recently, with Shoigu announcing on Wednesday that the Baltic Fleet would be boosted by a new army corps.

Baltic Fleet commander Sergei Kravchuk and several other senior officers were sacked this week for "serious shortfalls in their duty," a rare major overhaul underscoring Moscow's growing attention to the region.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/europe/2016/07/02/russia-orders-safety-overhaul-tense-baltic-airspace/86636426/

[AgentR11]

Budget ax. Delete primary stakeholders position of strength, then delete line items.

[Cid_Yama]

Seems I remember them doing something similar back in the late '70s. Soviets were worried about a potential war, and the readiness of it's forces was abysmal. Commanders were accused of complacency and filing false reports regarding training and readiness of units. They shot a couple to send a message.

[Sixstrings]

Seems I remember them doing something similar back in the late '70s. Soviets were worried about a potential war, and the readiness of it's forces was abysmal. Commanders were accused of complacency and filing false reports regarding training and readiness of units. They shot a couple to send a message.

Well apparently it's an unusually large shakeup.. and it was unusually public.. so what does that mean?

What are the problems Russia's been having in the Baltics? Was it really just dereliction of duty / mismanagement..

Or, is it something like the regional commanders were being too much cowboys with some of these risky maneuvers (the flybys, etc.).

I wonder about it, because the idea of all sides using transponders is one of the things the Russian defense minister is talking about, as a "safety measure."

If the Russian government is trying to get a handle on some loose commanders and reign them in, then that would be a good thing (but also concerning, about their command and control issues).

On this question of transponders -- the thing about it is just that the Baltics is not Syria. Russia should stop crossing borders, period. If NATO made a transponder agreement, then that would perhaps be like tacitly okaying the fact that Russian aircraft are flying over borders.

We have a safety agreement like that in Syria, but the Baltics is not Syria, it's not an open free for all.

So I'm not sure about it, seems like some positive signs in this, it's just that there is no fundamental right for Russia to fly all around the Baltics if that crosses borders.

[AgentR11]

So I'm not sure about it, seems like some positive signs in this, it's just that there is no fundamental right for Russia to fly all around the Baltics if that crosses borders.

While the territorial borders are very complicated there; there IS a fundamental right for Russia, and everyone else to use the common international waters and airspace, including the straights. It only took a thousand years of warfare to come up with this rational, safe, peaceful solution.

Basically everyone in the Baltic / Gulf of Finland area can go where they need to go without anyone else's consent. And that's just as true for Russia as it is your SS loving Baltic states.

[Sixstrings]

Russian tv aired the video of the US diplomat being tackled:

https://youtu.be/X_SjQAbnM3U

Hm, interesting.

The diplomat just gets out of the taxi in front of the embassy.. and then *immediately* the Russian guard comes flying out of the guard shack right next to the door and he just slams onto the diplomat.

There was no pause there at all, to ask for ID or anything, and the diplomat certainly didn't throw any first punch.

In the video, you can see the struggle between the American diplomat and the guard on top of him, and the diplomat (while pinned down to the ground) manages to get the door open with his finger and then the fight makes its way INSIDE the embassy.

Now at that point -- the Russian guard has no right to be IN the American embassy.

What I wonder is -- where the heck were the US marines, aren't they supposed to be inside the embassies? There should be someone stationed inside that embassy, next to the door, at all times.

That diplomat just needed somebody to at least open the door.

[AgentR11]

US cop might have just shot him for "resisting".

As to inside/outside.. once the diplomat was inside the embassy, the contest was over, but a reasonable amount of untangling shouldn't be surprising.

But, like I said; we've both managed to turn James Bond into Monte Python...

[Sixstrings]

US cop might have just shot him for "resisting".

No Agent, watch the video. And there were already reports that the kremlin said "he was a CIA agent returning from an op."

So watch that video, that guard was just waiting for him.. he got out of the cab, and the FSB agent instantly RAN out of that guard shack and jumped on top of him and then it was a pitched struggle, the American inching his way into the embassy.

He did a pretty good job, that was a bit James Bond actually.. he got that door open with his finger tips.

What I don't understand is why there are not US marines on guard inside that embassy, behind the doors.

[AgentR11]

I did watch the video. As soon as the diplomat started to scooch towards the door, that would be "resisting" by most US definitions. Add a little, "I saw a knife", followed by a bullet in the head, the resisting stops.

As to embassy guards, there are US guards (not sure if they are USMC, or other, or contractors), but they aren't morons; the fight was over once inside. Remember "subtle"; there's no reason to overreact, jump in, possibly harm or cripple your own diplomat in the process; just let them get untangled, growl at each other, then file the complaint.

I suspect the broken shoulder may be factual, but it likely happened on the initial tackle where he landed kinda funny near the brick column.

[Cog]

So the Russian foreign ministry lied when they said Russian guard "brushed" up against the CIA agent. Not to my surprise some members here bought that bit of Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

[AgentR11]

Of course they lie. We're at low-temp cool war; anyone that tells the truth to the enemy is an idgit.

Sometimes, I think they lie, because they enjoy watching us go ape-nutts over an obvious lie. They don't actually care if we believe the lie.

[vox_mundi]

US expels two Russian diplomats over Moscow 'attack'

The US has expelled two Russian diplomats in response to an attack on an American diplomat in Moscow, the state department says.

Spokesman John Kirby said the two officials - who have not been named - were told to leave on 17 June.

Mr Kirby said that earlier that month, a Russian policeman attacked the US diplomat near the US embassy in Moscow.

"The action was unprovoked," he said. Russia said the diplomat worked for the CIA and had refused to show ID papers.

Last month, the US said it had raised the issue of the alleged harassment of US diplomats in Russia directly with President Vladimir Putin.

Specific incidents have not officially been revealed.

But the Washington Post said last month they included breaking into the homes of embassy staff, rearranging furniture and even killing a family pet.

No official response has been made by Russia but a statement to the Post did not deny the charge and said there had been US provocation against Russian diplomats.

The former US ambassador to Russia, Michael McFaul, told the newspaper that while his family was living in Moscow, they were routinely followed by security services that wanted him to know they were being watched.