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Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Surf » Sat 22 Feb 2014, 01:51:59

I only wonder, how they will make road asphalt or constructions of steel smelters out of renewable energy...
How they will refurbish crumbling city infrastructure base on renewable energy...



Steel smelters are heat driven chemical reactor. Heat from burning coal heats a container of iron oxide and carbon. The heat causes the carbon to react with the iron oxide forming carbon dioxide gas. The gas is allowed to escape leaving behind iron. Mix the iron with a little more carbon you get steel. An Electric arc furnace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace), instead of coal, can supply the needed heat.

A second way to drive a chemical reaction is to use electricity directly. If you put aluminum oxide ore between two electrodes, melt it, and then pump electricity through molten ore. The electricity breaks the chemical bond
between the aluminum and oxygen . The oxygen is allowed to escape leaving behind aluminum. Iron ore and can also be processed this way.

most oxide ores can be processed by either of the above two methods to remove the oxygen.

As to Asphalt, we can eventually switch to reinforced concrete. Yes the concrete freeways on the east US coast failed and were eventually replaced with asphalt. However engineers learned from their mistakes. The concrete section of I-5 through seattle is the original road and after about 50 years of use is still in good condition. Asphalt is cheep and plentiful but it doesn't last like properly reinforced concrete.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Surf » Sat 22 Feb 2014, 03:12:38

Is it possible that renewables can supply 100% of our energy needs?

Yes It is possible, Paraguay and Iceland have already done it.


there are 5 countries that get all there powre from renewables (mainly hydro. There are another 12 that get over 90% of their power from renewables Again mostly from Hydro. Wind and solar work very well with hydro and with the current growth rate of solar and wind I would not be surprised to see more move up to 100%.

The following list shows how much power each country gets from renewables and how much from each type of renewable power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources

The key to getting to 100% renewable is to have a mix of renewable sources. A mix of solar thermal (with thermal storage, biomass, Wind and solar has been proposed for Australia by a non profit group and simulations were done with historical national grid data and historical weather data. Those simulations show that the plan will work
http://bze.org.au/zero-carbon-australia-2020

While solar PV and wind are intermittent and have low capacity factors, hydro, solar thermal (with thermal storage), biomass, ocean thermal, and geothermal have much higher capacity factors . high capacity factor power plants tend to cost more but if you combine them with wind and solar PV, which tend to cost less you tend to get good results. The power from solar and wind can take most of the load off of the high capacity factor power plants allowing some storage to and maintenance to occur. The mix of sources insures the power is there when it is needed.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Ulenspiegel » Sat 22 Feb 2014, 06:43:07

Keith_McClary wrote:
ralfy wrote:Related:

"The Energy Trap"

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/201 ... ergy-trap/
Tom Murphy's way of "doing the math" is overly complicated and confusing. It's really very simple if you think about it:

If the energy payback time of renewables (wind/solar) is T and the growth rate of renewable installations is 1/T, then the net energy produced is zero. If the growth rate is greater than 1/T then the net energy production is negative. Net energy production becomes positive only when renewables meet demand and cease growing.


And the whole argument ignores that in many countries the demand for heat is much larger than for electricity.

Better insulation of buildings has a very high energetical ROI, i.e. you invest two years of consumption and get 50% savings for decades. Therefore, the whole transition could in many countries easily be payed by a combination of more efficent heating/AC plus more green electricity generation.
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Re: Scientist to unveil 50-state plan to transform US to RE

Unread postby Graeme » Sat 29 Mar 2014, 17:33:39

New Jersey: 80 Percent by 2050

While many don’t believe it will be possible to make the transition from fossil fuels to renewables by the end of the first half of the 21st century, the goal as eminently doable, he said. In order to reach 80 percent by 2050, it will be necessary to install an average of 425 megawatts per year through 2050, which is less than the 463 megawatts installed in New Jersey in 2012 alone. Moreover, the impetus toward renewable power is being propelled by a number of broader issues. PJM, the regional transmission organization (RTO) that coordinates the movement of wholesale electricity in all or parts of 13 states, including New Jersey, and the District of Columbia, noted in a recent report that 20 gigawatts of coal-fired power plants serving the region are at high risk of retirement due to new emissions regulations and that the Oyster Creek nuclear plant in Lacey Township, the nation’s oldest, is slated for retirement at the end of 2019. These looming losses in generating capacity are forcing a decision on New Jersey’s energy future. “We are at a crossroads,” Rawlings said. “Something has to replace these sources of energy.” And, he noted, if we care about greenhouse gas emissions, it isn’t likely to be natural gas, which has a higher greenhouse gas footprint than originally thought due to the release of methane into the atmosphere from leaks that occur during the hydraulic fracturing (fracking) process. Another impetus, Rawlings said, has been the power outages caused by Hurricane Sandy, which highlighted the fragility of the grid and the need to develop highly distributed, uninterruptible sources of energy, which can be provided through the use of by solar in combination with battery storage.


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Re: Scientist to unveil 50-state plan to transform US to RE

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 09 Apr 2014, 17:47:45

Wind, Solar and Hydro Could Power All 50 States

The big oil, gas, coal and nuclear companies claim that we need those energy sources in order to power America.

Good news: it’s a myth.

Mark Diesendorf – Associate Professor and Deputy Director, Institute of Environmental Studies, UNSW at the University of New South Wales – notes:

The deniers and scoffers repeatedly utter the simplistic myth that renewable energy is intermittent and therefore cannot generate base-load (that is, 24-hour) power.

Detailed computer simulations, backed up with actual experience with wind power overseas, show that the scoffers are wrong.
Several countries, including Australia with its huge renewable energy resources, could make the necessary transition to an electricity generation system comprising 100 per cent renewable energy over a few decades.

***

Feasibility has been established by computer simulations of electricity generation systems by several research groups around the world, including my own …

Diesendorf gave an update earlier this month:

Ben Elliston, Iain MacGill and I have performed thousands of computer simulations of 100% renewable electricity in the National Electricity Market(NEM), using actual hourly data on electricity demand, wind and solar power for 2010.

Our latest research, available here and reported here, finds that generating systems comprising a mix of different commercially available renewable energy technologies, located on geographically dispersed sites, do not need base load power stations to achieve the same reliability as fossil-fuelled systems.

The old myth was based on the incorrect assumption that base load demand can only be supplied by base load power stations
; for example, coal in Australia and nuclear in France. However, the mix of renewable energy technologies in our computer model, which has no base load power stations, easily supplies base load demand.


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Re: Scientist to unveil 50-state plan to transform US to RE

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 27 Jul 2014, 18:51:19

Study: California Could Run Entirely on Renewables by 2050

Stanford researchers have found that it’s “technically and economically” feasible to move California to an entirely clean energy system by 2050, using existing renewable sources like wind, water and sunlight.

Published in Energy this week, the study concluded that the upfront capital costs would be more than offset by lower energy expenses. Bonus points: It could add 220,000 “manufacturing, installation and technology construction and operation jobs,” cut energy demand by around 44 percent, and eliminate billions in health costs linked to pollution.

“If implemented, this plan will eliminate air pollution mortality and global warming emissions from California, stabilize prices and create jobs — there is little downside,” said Mark Jacobson, a Stanford professor of civil and environmental engineering, in a statement.


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Re: Scientist to unveil 50-state plan to transform US to RE

Unread postby Lore » Sun 27 Jul 2014, 18:59:32

The first question should be, will there be anybody living in California by 2050?
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Scientist to unveil 50-state plan to transform US to RE

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 27 Jul 2014, 20:40:03

Yes I'm aware of drought there so they will either have to reply on strong El Ninos to bring in much needed rain water or build desalination plants (powered by solar of course) or both.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 12 Aug 2014, 20:44:21

Could BC Become a 100% Renewable Energy Region?: Transportation

This week, we look at transportation. Is it possible that we could get where we want to be and ship our goods where they need to go without any use of fossil fuels?
Helsinki, capital of Finland, is taking a big step in this direction, with its goal that by 2025, nobody will need to own a car in the city at all, thanks to an advanced integrated ‘mobility on demand’ network of shared bikes, transit, LRT, and computer-automatedKutsuplus minibuses that adapt their routes to take you wherever you want to go.

The cars, trucks, ferries and planes that we use to go about our daily lives are 38% of the cause of global warming in BC, so this is clearly a big deal. So let’s start at the easy end, and work our way into the difficult, uncharted territory.

Have You Ever Tried Cycling in North Vancouver?

Cycling is easy: the bustling city of Copenhagen has already demonstrated that 35% of its commuters can get to work by bike, and many cities in Holland can boast equally good numbers.

“Ah, but it’s flat,” you might respond. “Have you ever tried cycling in North Vancouver?”


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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Henriksson » Wed 13 Aug 2014, 09:03:43

Here is an article on a sorely misunderstood aspect of energy use - and a possible solution.

Solar panels and wind turbines are no producers of heat energy

The importance of heat in total energy consumption sharply contrasts with our efforts to green the energy infrastructure. These are largely aimed at renewable electricity production using wind turbines and solar panels. Although it is perfectly possible to convert electricity into heat, as in electric heaters or electric cookers, it is very inefficient to do so.

It is often assumed that our energy problems are solved when renewables reach 'grid parity' - the point at which they can generate electricity for the same price as fossil fuels. But to truly compete with fossil fuels, renewables must also reach 'thermal parity'.

Though today in some locations it may be as cheap to produce electricity with wind or solar energy as with gas or coal, it still remains significantly cheaper to produce heat with oil, gas or coal than with a wind turbine or a solar panel. This is because it takes 2 to 3 kWh of fossil fuel thermal energy to create 1 kWh of electricity, so it is at least 2 to 3 times cheaper to make heat by simply burning the fossil fuels directly than to use an electric renewable technology at grid parity.

Manufacturing wind turbines and solar panels requires heat

This means that solar panels and wind turbines will have to become two to three times cheaper than they are today in order to reach thermal parity with fossil fuels. This might sound reasonably possible, especially if you expect fossil fuel prices to rise. But consider this: even though they are intended to replace fossil fuels, renewable energy sources like wind turbines and solar panels are in fact dependent on a continuous supply of fossil fuels.

Solar panels and wind turbines do not need fossil fuels to operate, but they do need fossil fuels for their production. You won't find any factory manufacturing PV solar panels or wind turbines using energy from their own PV solar panels or wind turbines. Why not? Because it would be 2 to 3 times more expensive to generate heat with solar panels or wind turbines than with fossil fuels. Yet to make solar panels and wind turbines, to produce steel and silicon for instance, heat is what is most needed. This means that the production costs of solar panels and wind turbines will be affected negatively by rising fossil fuel prices.

The same goes for batteries, which are an essential element of electric cars and renewable electricity storage, and for many other modern green technologies, like LEDs and heat pumps. They require heat for their production, and this heat can be delivered at least 2 to 3 times cheaper by burning fossil fuels than by using wind turbines or solar panels (cheap electricity from hydropower plants is also an option, but has limited potential). This is a fundamental problem, because we will have to produce new wind turbines and solar panels every 20 to 30 years, and new batteries every 5 to 10 years.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Graeme » Mon 15 Sep 2014, 18:30:31

Clean energy: can we go 100% renewable?

Right now, in Europe and elsewhere around the world, governments and politicians are poised to make decisions that could have a profound impact on whether or not we successfully protect our children and grandchildren from the dangerous and uncontrollable impacts of climate change.

If we are to be successful then one thing we need to do is change where we get our energy from, and quickly.

In 2011, WWF crunched the numbers and concluded in its groundbreaking study – The Energy Report – that by 2050 all of the world’s energy needs could be provided cleanly, renewably and – affordably. The report also looked at the barriers to such a transition. One of the biggest barriers was that globally more money was being invested in dirty fossil fuels than in clean renewables. This is still the case today and is why in 2013, WWF launched its international Seize Your Power campaign.

A few months after the publication of WWF’s ‘Energy Report’, the Scottish Government announced it was raising its renewable electricity target to 100% of Scotland’s consumption by 2020. Not only was this a welcome statement of ambition, but a clear acknowledgement of just how far Scotland had come in harnessing the power of nature.

After all, it was only ten years earlier that Scotland had set its very first renewable electricity target – a (rather modest, by today’s standards) 17.5% by 2010. Yet, by 2010, Scotland was actually producing over a quarter of its needs from renewables. By 2011, it was over a third.

How, even without possessing all the powers over energy, was Scotland able to triple the amount of electricity generated by renewables in a decade and as well as set itself the challenge of meeting 100% of its needs from renewables within the next ten years?

Our new, short report: ‘Scotland: a renewable powerhouse’ attempts to tell the story of how it became politically credible for Scottish to set a 100% target.


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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby ralfy » Fri 26 Sep 2014, 23:15:30

The catch is that significant components of mining, manufacturing, shipping, etc., require fossil fuels, not just for energy but even for petrochemicals. Another is that although credit can be created easily, much of it is concentrated among a few, with most economies having to engage in quick sources of energy, etc., to meet increasing demand from a growing global middle class. A third is that similar to peak oil several material resources needed to produce, distribute, and even use electricity taken from renewable energy sources also face supply limitations.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 26 Sep 2014, 23:28:43

The answer to the thread question is YES; we are already there in some parts of the world. That is not to say that there are no further issues. Of course there are! We need practical people to solve them not critics.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby ennui2 » Sat 27 Sep 2014, 11:31:19

Graeme wrote:The answer to the thread question is YES; we are already there in some parts of the world. That is not to say that there are no further issues. Of course there are! We need practical people to solve them not critics.


The answer is a qualified no. In other words, no--but perfect is the enemy of good, so we should strive anyway.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 05 Oct 2014, 04:57:38

It's viable only if ignore population increase, a middle class increase, peak oil, long-term effects of environmental damage and global warming, etc.
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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 05 Oct 2014, 15:44:32

Of course it's viable. Here's an example of an island in the Canary group off the coast of Africa that will soon do it.

El Hierro Nearing Completion Of 100% Renewables Goal

El Hierro — one of the larger islands making up Spain’s Canary Islands off the coast of Africa — is nearing the achievement of its goal to be powered 100% by renewable energy, according to reports.

The goal is reportedly only a few months off — with the island’s new wind energy/water turbine battery system (finished earlier this year) by then generating all of the island’s energy needs of up to 48 GWh per year. Once this is achieved, it will offset the 6,600 annual tons of barged-in diesel that had previously kept the island powered.

While neither the wind energy technology used, nor the water turbine energy storage system used, are new technologies on their own, this is actually the “first” time that they have been combined with each other for a commercial-scale power plant, according to engineer Juan Manuel Quintero, a board member on the project.

A project now collectively known as the Gorona del Viento power plant, it was constructed, altogether, for around $110 million.



The island’s next goal is to be gas-powered vehicle-free by 2020 — thereafter, nothing but EVs and human-powered vehicles.


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Re: Is 100% Renewable Energy Viable?

Unread postby Graeme » Sun 05 Oct 2014, 17:03:32

If that island can do it, so can the rest of the world.
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