Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 07:08:04

I am not a cornucopian, I expect at least a 75% dieoff before things stabilize again. But that doesn't mean I will stop fighting. I will be one of the 25%.

We have to look at this like putting men on the moon. In the beginning there were 1000s of people who had long valid lists of why it couldn't be done. But, you make a plan, you work the plan, you get really smart people to address the issues as they come up. And low and behold...men walked on the moon.

We didn't get to the complex society we live in by giving up. We got here by fighting and struggling and learning. We can solve these problems too (at a much lower population level). We just have to keep pushing.

I've made some predictions here that may come back to bite me :) So I'll stick my neck out and predict in 50 years there will be a whole industry devoted to removing CO2 from the air, turning it to limestone, and using it to fill old strip mines.

I won't be around in 50 years anyway...
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Cog » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 08:30:31

Renewables will grow in use when the economic conditions justify them.
User avatar
Cog
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9138
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Metro-East Illinois

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 08:56:46

Gentlefolk, don't go all simplistic about this. The dieoff as you are calling it, will be just as unevenly distribuited as was the FF-powered population surge that endangered the world. The most vulnerable people are those who only exist because of all that FF-powered food production.

So ask yourselves what will the average US citizen do as fuel costs climb and the 3rd world starves? The process of the end of oil will gradually worsen over a period of years, it's not like throwing a switch or running off a cliff. Nor are we as vulnerable as they, we in the USA only spend about 6% of our income on food. Lots of income elasticity there to accomodate and compensate for newly expensive food, delivered by newly expensive transport, and cooked on newly expensive kitchen fuels.

Granted, US citizens will scream to high heaven as the world changes and they by necessity must beome obsessed with food. Our lifestyles will change dramatically over a span of years. Government checks will not feed those who have retired or live on welfare. There will be hardships on display on the nightly news, and the Internet will positively be ablaze.

I believe it will be the Apocalypse for the two groups of criminals we call Democrats and Republicans. It happened on their watch, and if anybody looks too comfortable, they obviously knew about the coming emergency, they should be the first to be lynched. The 1% are also legitimate targets, in a country where even the lower class has easy access to guns.

The times they will be changing, and the country will change with it. I have been deliberately a little vague, because such catastrophies as this are unprecedented, as will be our response. Such hardships as are to come may cause nobility to break out all around us, and a sharing of food, and caring for the disadvataged.

Except that is not what ape tribes do when faced with a food shortage. Apes attack their neighboring tribes and take their food and consume it, and then consume their neighbors themselves if things continue to worsen. It is only when things reach their most desperate that apes consume their own tribal members.

BTW, them city dwelling people are not in MY tribe.

I am desperately hoping that when it is apparent to all that the FF's will run out, we will still have the where-with-all to do the power down and to transition to renewables. I agree with the assessment about that above which says such things are not happening until the situation is desperate and obvious to all. I plan to own land that will let me grow food, and a house that does not depend upon FF's to operate. If not many of my neighbors have what I have, then they can superinsulate what they do have. Within the shell of every average 2400-sq. ft. home can be built a 500-sq. ft. home, by building a partition three feet thick and filling it with straw or shredded paper. You can similarly abandon one floor and live in a basement or the first floor of a 2-story home, adding insulation above. Note that Europe already has 10s of thousands of superinsulated Passive Homes, and that Norway has already got 98% carbon-free power. (The way they measure that is questionable.)

Affluent 1st World citizens have options, is the point I am making. Options not available to 3rd World people living in shacks and already malnourished. We will survive, adapt, and eventually prosper in a smaller sense, and they will die.

One final thought for you: In case you missed it, the process of the end of the world began decades ago.
Last edited by KaiserJeep on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 09:20:30, edited 3 times in total.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 09:10:21

You know, there's this lady customer of mine who brings me cookies and lemonade. I installed 10 kW of PV on her roof and put an 80 gallon solar hot water tank in her attic with a block and tackle several years ago. That's where she wanted it :)

A few weeks ago I was showing her husband how to flush the crud out of the bottom of the tank without flooding the house. She was watching and said 'You know what I told your boss?' I said 'Oh shit, what have I done now?' She said 'You are like Yoda, there is no can't, there is just do'. I gave her a big hug and hit my boss up for a raise :)
Last edited by baha on Sun 25 Jun 2017, 10:23:43, edited 1 time in total.
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 09:51:48

You're right KJ,
Change is already happening. There is no end or beginning, just change...

But momentum is growing. I struggled for many years until the economics came around my way. But my engineering instinct told me solar is the best available answer. Now I am making money doing the right thing. You can't beat that :)

The chaos and instability we have been talking about for 10 years has reached the mainstream. No one knows what to expect. I expect gridlock, in-fighting, lack of progress, and eventual default.

How this effects you will depend on how well you are positioned to take care of yourself for a while. I agree we will recover but there are hard times ahead.
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 10:00:28

baha wrote:I've made some predictions here that may come back to bite me :) So I'll stick my neck out and predict in 50 years there will be a whole industry devoted to removing CO2 from the air, turning it to limestone, and using it to fill old strip mines.


That would be an optimistic scenario, like if fusion power (or even thorium nukes) comes of age. We won't have enough surplus energy to do it purely on the backs of renewables.

More likely agriculture will fail due to AGW and the world will be busy filing themselves into smaller and smaller lifeboats and beating back starving refugees (aka zombies).

(Of course, every time I issue my doom scenario it's ignored by those who claim I'm a corny because my narrative is a little further downfield and doesn't emphasize oil depletion.)
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 10:33:08

[smilie=XXknight.gif] Ha, Ha - I am immune to your small cuts.
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 11:25:13

Newfie wrote:Pete,

That works only if the USA is the only country and if CO2 emissions are the only problem.

How does it work in Africa? How does it help limit population growth? And even if it is a positive effort, does it change things fast enough? Or are we resigned to just looking at lifeboat USA?

There is good news and bad, hope and hopelessness. The US will never change voluntarily. We are profligate wasters and showoffs, currently trained well by our Masters to consume at all costs. This is perhaps ingrained in humanity, like the Bower Bird. But regardless . . . the US had the luxury (curse): it designed suburbia when energy was free. We built our nest with wasted energy and we are stuck with our waste.

The rest of the world not so much: For instance New Yorker Magazine, June 26, 2017 issue: The Race to Solar-Power Africa

The cacao-farming community of Daban, in Ghana, is seven degrees north of the equator, and it’s always hot. In May, I met with several elders there to talk about the electricity that had come to the town a few months earlier, when an American startup installed a solar microgrid nearby. Daban could now safely store the vaccine for yellow fever; residents could charge their cell phones at home rather than walking to a bigger town to do it. As we talked, one of the old men handed me a small plastic bag of water, the kind street venders sell across West Africa—you just bite off a corner and drink. The water was ice-cold and refreshing, but it took me an embarrassingly long moment to understand the pleasure with which he offered it: cold water was now available in this hot place. There was enough power to run a couple of refrigerators, and so coldness was, for the first time, a possibility.


This is momentous and brings folks into the 21 century. People can charge their cell phones at home instead of walking perhaps miles to town. A village can afford a single television. And a refrigerator for antibiotics. It's interesting that cell-phone penetration in Africa is equal to the US. An entire continent leapfrogged the expensive and vulnerable copper-wire paradigm.

Africa is not such a bad place. We are washed with media despair . . . it sells ad space. Africa is actually filled with mostly happy people. Yes, there is war and want in many places, but hundreds of millions who are well-fed and happy. Folks who live good lives on a fuel subsidy an order of magnitude less than us. Perhaps like in the movie '2012' Africa will welcome oil refugees from America?

No chance the US will change its ways. We blew it. We will never create a permaculture paradise or a renewable wonderland. We will sink into feudal state nothing like the movies. It will be new and different. It is what we do best.
There's nothing deeper than love. In fairy tales, the princesses kiss the frogs, and the frogs become princes. In real life,the princesses kiss princes, and the princes turn into frogs

“Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.”
― Maya Angelou
pstarr
NeoMaster
NeoMaster
 
Posts: 25796
Joined: Mon 27 Sep 2004, 02:00:00
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 12:35:18

pstarr wrote:The US will never change voluntarily.


I'm seeing tons of solar panels on roofs these days, many on "wasteful" McMansions.

Change is happening, just not the sort you'd prefer.

pstarr wrote:We will sink into feudal state nothing like the movies.


Unfortunately the earliest your dystopia can come to pass is still some time in the future so you will have to content yourself with cockily restating your predictions again and again while BAU rolls ever onward.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Newfie » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 13:00:42

Until they come about.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 13:47:26

pstarr wrote:We will sink into feudal state nothing like the movies. It will be new and different. It is what we do best.


It will be like Africa. People will appreciate a cool drink of water. They will be happy and forever grateful to someone who can keep their food and medicine fresh.

The mistake we spoiled Americans make is thinking we will survive and they will not. You can't miss something you never had. The brainwashing by the MSM is very effective. They will die and we will live...go back to Walmart.

What, maybe 30% of Americans will die as soon as their insulin goes bad...
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Cog » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 13:53:59

Type 2 diabetics will survive this as their need for insulin meds will go away as soon as the pounds melt away. As a matter of fact, a lot of people won't need the meds they are currently prescribed due to their obesity.

If you are a Type 1 diabetic or on various anti-immune drugs from a transplant then yeah you are going to die.
User avatar
Cog
Anti-Matter
Anti-Matter
 
Posts: 9138
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 02:00:00
Location: Metro-East Illinois

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 19:26:59

Image
Unfortunately the US Power Grid isn't actually switching to renewables---its switching from coal to Natural Gas.

Cheers!

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 19:56:43

Thanks Cog, I don't do health care either. I'm glad you are taking matters into your own hands. Congrats and keep up the good work :)

Plantagenet - Thank you too. I always love your pretty pictures :) You aren't paying attention. I didn't say anything about the grid switching to renewables...I said burn the damn thing down :twisted:
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 20:11:11

baha wrote:Plantagenet - Thank you too. I always love your pretty pictures :) You aren't paying attention. I didn't say anything about the grid switching to renewables...I said burn the damn thing down :twisted:


You're welcome haha.

Please note that the title of this thread is "Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables"

Please also note that if you follow through on your wish to burn the grid down you will be committing multiple felonies.

Cheers!

"Its a brave new world"
---President Obama, 4/25/16
"Il bel far niente"
---traditional Italian saying
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 20276
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 02:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby asg70 » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 20:27:29

Plantagenet wrote:Image
Unfortunately the US Power Grid isn't actually switching to renewables---its switching from coal to Natural Gas.


Your chart shows that the US Power Grid is switching to gas AND renewables, with gas just outpacing renewables.
Hubbert's curve, meet S-curve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0
asg70
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2017, 13:17:28

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby kublikhan » Sun 25 Jun 2017, 20:44:50

Baha - I think your hatred of your utility is leading you to see off grid living through rose tinted glasses. It is more expensive than living on the grid. It is less convenient. And less efficient. This is really only appealing to a small niche of society who want to do something like this for reasons other than economics. Or for households that lack grid electricity to begin with and are far away from a grid connection. The grid is not a monster to be slain. It is a system that delivers electricity in the most cost efficient manner possible. Sure there are deficiencies and areas for improvement. But that doesn't mean it is wiser to simply shut the whole thing down and go off grid with solar and batteries.

Dreaming of cutting the cord and getting rid of the big bad utility? Perhaps you should think again. Renewable electricity has lots of benefits, but stand-alone (off-grid) systems are more expensive and complex, and require more maintenance than batteryless grid-tied systems. And there are other big advantages to installing renewable energy systems on the grid. Before you make your decision about whether to be off grid or not, let’s take a closer look at the pros and cons.

Off-Grid Disadvantages
When you make the decision to go off grid, you take on the duties of the cursed utility you were trying to avoid. My experience is that you tend to curse them less and appreciate them more as you tackle these responsibilities.

First and foremost, making all of your own electricity is costly. If you are already on the grid, it’s unlikely that installing an off-grid RE system will provide you with cheaper electricity, unless your area has generous incentives, very high utility rates, or both. (Note that most financial incentive programs apply to on-grid systems and do not apply to batteries.)

System maintenance and troubleshooting are serious, ongoing responsibilities with off-grid systems. When you pay your utility bill, you’re paying for those hard workers in business suits and coveralls to take care of things. If you are the utility, you have to do the work all by yourself, plus buy the coveralls.

Off-grid systems use batteries to store electricity and provide it for your home, but batteries don’t last forever. In fact, they will need replacement every five to fifteen years (typically less than ten, unless you have deep pockets for high-quality, industrial-type batteries). A minimal bank of batteries will cost at least $1,000, and long-lasting industrial batteries for the same application might cost three to four times that much. And it’s not just the cost in dollars that’s a disadvantage. There’s maintenance and replacement time, aching backs from lifting that heavy metal, and perhaps labor cost—and then there’s the environmental cost of making, moving, recycling, and replacing all that lead.

Batteries have another, less tangible cost, and that’s energy waste. At their best, batteries are 90% efficient. That means if you put in 10 kilowatt-hours (kWh), you will get out less than 9 kWh. As they age, their efficiency drops further, and they are also affected by temperature. All this adds up to more energy waste the larger, older, hotter, or colder your battery bank is.

In comparison to grid-tied systems, stand-alone systems have another serious drawback—wasted surplus energy. When a grid-tied renewable electricity system makes more than the homeowners use, the surplus is fed to the utility, creating an energy credit and allowing the system to always run at full capacity. Nothing is wasted, and the grid is figuratively (not literally) 100% efficient—you get credited for all that you throw their way. When you’re off grid, your surplus must be used or it will be wasted. With most off-grid PV systems, the array simply gets turned off by the controller when the batteries are full, so the energy is never generated. With most wind and hydro systems, the excess energy is shunted to a dump load, typically an air- or water-heating element. Savvy off-gridders are aware of their system operation, and change their energy-use habits when there’s a surplus—like choosing to do laundry in the middle of the day. But it’s not automatic, and it takes some social adjustments to switch from energy sipper to energy gorger depending on the weather.

Most off-grid systems need a backup engine-generator, and this is another big disadvantage of these systems. Generator electricity is expensive when you calculate the cost of purchasing, fueling, and maintaining these dirty, noisy machines. And if you buy a cheap model, you might end up with what veteran off-gridder and RE installer Roy Butler calls an “800-hour throwaway” and have to replace it sooner than you wished.

If living off grid sounds like a bit more trouble than you expected, good! I’d like you to be successful with your renewable energy plans, and being realistic is a good first step. My family moved off grid in 1981, and my wife and I have raised a raft of kids and run several businesses from home, so I know that it’s not always a picnic. We’ve been through multiple generators, and have had hard times when we had to wait for the weather to change before doing the laundry. The social and familial implications of living with a variable energy source shouldn’t be underestimated!

On-Grid Advantages
Using renewable energy on the grid avoids most, if not all, of the disadvantages of being off grid. The utility is like a big, 100% efficient battery that can absorb all your surplus energy. In addition, you can lean on it as hard as you want to for as much additional electricity as you might need. If you can’t afford a renewable-electric system large enough to supply all your needs, you can install whatever portion you can afford. If you’re off grid, you have to make it all, one way or another, and if you’re strapped for cash when you’re putting in your system, you’ll end up making a lot of it with fossil fuels. When the grid uses fossil fuels, at least it uses them more efficiently, and with less noise and pollution than a home generator.

With grid-tied renewable energy systems, there is no absolute need to conserve electricity or change your lifestyle. You can choose to live the same way you lived before you installed an RE system. Your system will offset some or all of your usage, and your daily life can continue unchanged.

Weighing the Costs
From the perspective of more than 25 years of off-grid living, my advice is not to unplug from the grid if it’s there. “greening up” the grid with your renewable electricity will benefit you, the environment, and your community better than cutting the cord.
Off or On Grid?
The oil barrel is half-full.
User avatar
kublikhan
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 3925
Joined: Tue 06 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Illinois

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby Newfie » Mon 26 Jun 2017, 05:30:27

Kilublkan,
That's about right. Our boat is obviously off grid, because it needs to be. Our cabin is on grid because it needs to be. How do I maintain the system when I'm here only 4 months a year?

If someone has a place that is their "doomstead" then I think a going hybrid is a good solution solution. Run renewables for critical loads, all D.C. circuits. Lights, fridge. If you need AC run an inverted for say the water pump or microwave. But what else does you NEED? Air conditioning is a luxury. Heat is pretty much out of the question unless you have a purpose built house. Have a battery charger to pick up the batteries if you have a run of bad days.

This way you have a grid connection for non essentials and D.C. for your core. Keeps the system smaller, more affordable, easier to maintain. Doable.

But does not make much sense in a 3000 sq ft McMansion with 3 52" TVs and AC and an electric stove.
User avatar
Newfie
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 9087
Joined: Thu 15 Nov 2007, 03:00:00
Location: US East Coast

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby baha » Mon 26 Jun 2017, 06:28:31

You're right Kub,
I hate people who lie and take advantage of others. Once again all these analysis are based on economics. I know the world operates on money, but that can be manipulated by TPTB. Physics can not be manipulated.

Step back from the grid and consider it as a system including the source. At the very source of power there are huge vulnerabilities. It is completely dependent on several other industries to provide it with one-time-use source material. Big oil and gas, railroads, pipelines...A constant flow of manpower and money is required just to get started.

OK, light the flame that melts aluminum and start making power. Everything is hot and spinning and vibrating. There is a whole city of power in that one turbine. Let that monster off the leash and he will kill you and destroy your facility. But don't worry, we inspect it daily...yeah right.

Ok, the shit's all burned up...What do we do with it? The coal ash ponds are full and the government subsidies aren't enough to clean it up. Let's switch to gas. Then we can just dump the ash into the atmosphere for free. Don't worry CC isn't real and asthma has nothing to do with us...

I haven't even gotten to the grid yet :)

Fortunately one of the excrement of power plants is electrons. Their hot and bothered and screaming outward as fast as they can go, and what happens? We start sending them around in circles (transformers). Their like 'dude, how can I power anything if I can't stand up straight?' We're like 'shut up, you have a long journey ahead with tall mountains' About the time they are starting to enjoy the view, back into the spin wash and then spit out into an electric can opener...what a life :)

Now consider solar...
The nuclear fusion reactor we call the Sun has been showering us with power for 4 billion years for free. He likes us, he beams his approval in all directions in a carefree display of raw power. The oil and gas we dig up is just solar power that got stored millions of years ago. Surplus...People can harvest his power just by walking outside. Anywhere on earth I can get some solar power if I am patient. I don't have to dig a hole, build a pipeline, or light a fire. I just turn my smiling face to the sky.

That is my source of power. I just catch photons with a silicon net and the electrons start flowing. No movement, no monsters :) They venture down my wires to the house and discover a battery party :) All their friends are there and there is this hot Lithium babe who likes to fool around. I think I've found a home. Providing a little LED lighting is the least I can do :)

The point is complexity and responsibility. Sure solar requires materials too. But it's a one time thing and there is no waste. From an engineering perspective, simple is better. From an environmental perspective it is leaky wells, pipelines, coal trains, gas flaring, stinky refineries, and all the people who take such pride in destroying the planet - vs - me and the Sun.

You should all be very afraid :)
A Solar fuel spill is otherwise known as a sunny day!
The energy density of a tank of FF's doesn't matter if it's empty.

https://monitoringpublic.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/kiosk?guid=19844186-d749-40d6-b848-191e899b37db
User avatar
baha
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2007, 02:00:00
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Running the US Power Grid on 100% Renewables

Unread postby KaiserJeep » Mon 26 Jun 2017, 07:59:15

baha, get a life. I repeat, the power grid is a national asset. Nor do most people even have a desire to own an energy-producing roof. In my HOA neighborhood of 38 homes, in the ideal regulatory environment of California, with State and Federal tax incentives that make it essentially FREE, exactly four have Solar PV and two have solar hot water and two have solar pool heaters. I would not have spent my own money, I did a $0 solar lease called a Power Purchase Agreement.

This vision you have of a nation of off-grid homes is a silly fantasy. There are more people who would give up electricity than would own their own powerplant - or water well, sewage treatment, or garden - let alone chickens or other livestock.

It's just not happening, ever. That's why they live in cities, understand, so they don't even need to think about those things. That's why they suck down cheeseburgers while condemning the beef industry, and plastic junk while railing against "Big Oil". Brainless nebbishes, who assume the persona they covet online. If I thought we could get honest results, I would use a forum poll to prove this. I am convinced there are only a handful of PeakOil.com members that are partially or wholly off-grid.
KaiserJeep 2.0, Neural Subnode 0010 0000 0001 0110 - 1001 0011 0011, Tertiary Adjunct to Unimatrix 0000 0000 0001

Resistance is Futile, YOU will be Assimilated.

Warning: Messages timestamped before April 1, 2016, 06:00 PST were posted by the unmodified human KaiserJeep 1.0
KaiserJeep
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 3975
Joined: Tue 06 Aug 2013, 16:16:32
Location: California's Silly Valley

PreviousNext

Return to Energy Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests