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Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 04 May 2017, 13:04:45

IS THIS THE START OF RUNAWAY GLOBAL WARMING?
This essay focuses on observations of what appears to be the start of runaway warming in the Arctic that may have profound effects on global climates over the next few years; and a plausible cause - the warming driven release of methane gas from permafrost forming a strong greenhouse cap over the Arctic Ocean. Evidence shows that over the last few years winter cooling over the Arctic Ocean has been significantly retarded when the sun is below the horizon for months at a time when heat absorbed over summers with 24 hour daylight should be radiating away to outer space. However, during the late autumn and winter over the last two to three years, monthly average temperatures over large areas of the Arctic Ocean have been as much as 20​+ °C!! hotter than the 1989-2000 baseline averages for the same months.

The observational data presented in this essay provide strong evidence that significant Arctic warming has already begun that is apparently accelerating, suggesting that the ice-albedo feedback and polar vortex feedbacks are already operating, and that others may also have begun. Given (1) that the potential feedbacks mentioned here are all based on well established physics, geophysics and climatology, and (2) that they appear to be ongoing at the present time, it is entirely reasonable to assess the risk of adverse consequences to humanity as being existential.

In other words, the danger of extremely adverse consequences to our species if we deny or ignore the threat and do nothing to mitigate it can be ranked in three dimensions as:
•Probability: likely to almost certain
•Severity: catastrophic to extinction
•Time scale: near to imminent (i.e., within the normal lifespan of at least some people now living)

link


Climate change may be escalating so fast it could be 'game over', scientists warn
It is a vision of a future so apocalyptic that it is hard to even imagine.

But, if leading scientists writing in one of the most respected academic journals are right, planet Earth could be on course for global warming of more than seven degrees Celsius within a lifetime.

And that, according to one of the world’s most renowned climatologists, could be “game over”.

link


Nonlinear climate sensitivity and its implications for future greenhouse warming
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby chilyb » Thu 04 May 2017, 14:21:53

Hi Cid_Yama,

as quoted from Wikipedia:

"May you live in interesting times" is an English expression purported to be a translation of a traditional Chinese curse. While seemingly a blessing, the expression is always used ironically, with the clear implication that 'uninteresting times', of peace and tranquillity, are more life-enhancing than interesting ones, which from historical perspective usually include disorder and conflict.


whatever happens, it will be interesting!
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby vox_mundi » Thu 04 May 2017, 15:05:03

Decades of data on world's oceans reveal a troubling oxygen decline

Image

A new analysis of decades of data on oceans across the globe has revealed that the amount of dissolved oxygen contained in the water – an important measure of ocean health – has been declining for more than 20 years.

Researchers at Georgia Institute of Technology looked at a historic dataset of ocean information stretching back more than 50 years and searched for long term trends and patterns. They found that oxygen levels started dropping in the 1980s as ocean temperatures began to climb.
“The important aspect of our result is that the rate of global oxygen loss appears to be exceeding the level of nature's random variability.”

Falling oxygen levels in water have the potential to impact the habitat of marine organisms worldwide and in recent years led to more frequent “hypoxic events” that killed or displaced populations of fish, crabs and many other organisms.

Researchers have for years anticipated that rising water temperatures would affect the amount of oxygen in the oceans, since warmer water is capable of holding less dissolved gas than colder water. But the data showed that ocean oxygen was falling more rapidly than the corresponding rise in water temperature.
“The trend of oxygen decrease is about two to three times faster than what we predicted from the decrease of solubility associated with the ocean warming”

“This is most likely due to the changes in ocean circulation and mixing associated with the heating of the near-surface waters and melting of polar ice,” Ito said.

Takamitsu Ito, Shoshiro Minobe, Matthew C. Long and Curtis Deutsch, “Upper Ocean O2 trends: 1958-2015,” (Geophysical Research Letters, April 2017).


NCAR: Global Temperature Increase To Lower Oxygen Content of Most Ocean Zones by the 2030s

Image

A reduction in the amount of oxygen dissolved in the oceans due to climate change is already discernible in some parts of the world and should be evident across large regions of the oceans between 2030 and 2040. — The National Center for Atmospheric Research: press release - April 27th, 2016

According to a new study from NCAR, ocean oxygen levels are already starting to fall in some regions due to global warming. If warming continues, NCAR finds that most of the world’s oceans will experience some level of oxygen loss due to this warming and due to a related increased stratification of surface waters. Warming waters can hold less oxygen and loss of oxygen to ocean surface waters may becomes very widespread by the 2030s.



Image
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 04 May 2017, 16:53:52

Nice catch, Vox. The current changes to the planet are so profound, even those that deal with it everyday are overwhelmed by the scope and pace.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dissident » Thu 04 May 2017, 18:02:09

vox_mundi wrote:Decades of data on world's oceans reveal a troubling oxygen decline

A new analysis of decades of data on oceans across the globe has revealed that the amount of dissolved oxygen contained in the water – an important measure of ocean health – has been declining for more than 20 years.

Researchers have for years anticipated that rising water temperatures would affect the amount of oxygen in the oceans, since warmer water is capable of holding less dissolved gas than colder water. But the data showed that ocean oxygen was falling more rapidly than the corresponding rise in water temperature.
“The trend of oxygen decrease is about two to three times faster than what we predicted from the decrease of solubility associated with the ocean warming”

“This is most likely due to the changes in ocean circulation and mixing associated with the heating of the near-surface waters and melting of polar ice,” Ito said.


They missed the all important biotic factor. Warmer temperatures lead to more decomposition of biomass and more oxygen consumption. This is a rather major lapse for ocean researchers.


Image


Sulfur reducing bacteria are not the only ones that are important. Methane producing bacteria (methanogens) are also a serious factor. The extra CH4 outgassing to the atmosphere is missing in this cartoon which makes it seem like seabed burial is involved with anoxic conditions.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dohboi » Sun 07 May 2017, 21:33:13


Melting Arctic underwater permafrost layer may lead to climate disaster


This year, Far Eastern scientists are set to organize three Arctic expeditions for studying underwater permafrost melting processes that could lead to major climate change, Interfax reports, quoting the Far Eastern Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
This research will be to evaluate the scale of underwater permafrost and hydrate degradation, as well as methane migration volumes in the eastern Arctic. …………….. The expeditions will be organized by the Ilyichev Pacific Oceanological Institute of the Far Eastern Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
“If current underwater permafrost melting trends, accompanied by large-scale methane emissions into the atmosphere, persist, this may cause even more substantial emissions. These emissions could cause hard-to-predict climatic consequences, including a hypothetical climate disaster,” said Oleg Dudarev, a leading research associate with the Laboratory of Arctic Research at the Pacific Oceanological Institute of the Far Eastern Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
The first gas emissions were detected in 2011 in the northern part of the Laptev Sea, with methane accounting for up to 70 percent of these emissions. Several hundred gas emissions called mega-seeps were recorded over one square kilometer of the seabed.
The results of the 2012, 2014 and 2016 expeditions show that seabed methane emissions continue to increase in the vicinity of the mega-seeps, with the diameter of some “torches” reaching several hundred meters.


http://arctic.ru/environmental/20170427/597399.html
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Mon 08 May 2017, 12:44:30

The final paragraph:

If the underwater permafrost layer continues to melt at an increasing rate, growing greenhouse gas emissions would lead to major climate change, scientists note. This, in turn, would change the ecological parameters of the Arctic seas and probably those of the entire World Ocean.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dohboi » Mon 08 May 2017, 17:34:15

Plant, your state has been in the news a bit recently, and not for very happy reasons:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... on-dioxide

Slow-freezing Alaska soil driving surge in carbon dioxide emissions


Northern tundra’s autumn carbon dioxide emissions increased 70% between 1975 and 2015, researchers find, blaming warming temperatures

Alaska’s permafrost is filling the air with carbon dioxide, worsening climate change


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... ?tid=ss_tw
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 09 May 2017, 08:33:05

Here's a new one for you:

Pohlman, J. et al, 2017. Enhanced CO2 uptake at a shallow Arctic Ocean seep field overwhelms the positive warming potential of emitted methane.PNAS 2017 , doi: 10.1073/pnas.1618926114

Continued warming of the Arctic Ocean in coming decades is projected to trigger the release of teragrams (1 Tg = 106 tons) of methane from thawing subsea permafrost on shallow continental shelves and dissociation of methane hydrate on upper continental slopes. On the shallow shelves (<100 m water depth), methane released from the seafloor may reach the atmosphere and potentially amplify global warming. On the other hand, biological uptake of carbon dioxide (CO2) has the potential to offset the positive warming potential of emitted methane, a process that has not received detailed consideration for these settings. Continuous sea−air gas flux data collected over a shallow ebullitive methane seep field on the Svalbard margin reveal atmospheric CO2 uptake rates (−33,300 ± 7,900 μmol m−2⋅d−1) twice that of surrounding waters and ∼1,900 times greater than the diffusive sea−air methane efflux (17.3 ± 4.8 μmol m−2⋅d−1). The negative radiative forcing expected from this CO2 uptake is up to 231 times greater than the positive radiative forcing from the methane emissions. Surface water characteristics (e.g., high dissolved oxygen, high pH, and enrichment of 13C in CO2) indicate that upwelling of cold, nutrient-rich water from near the seafloor accompanies methane emissions and stimulates CO2 consumption by photosynthesizing phytoplankton. These findings challenge the widely held perception that areas characterized by shallow-water methane seeps and/or strongly elevated sea−air methane flux always increase the global atmospheric greenhouse gas burden.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby chilyb » Tue 09 May 2017, 11:44:24

Thank you rockdoc123.

Here's the corresponding grey journalism:

https://www.usgs.gov/news/ocean-absorpt ... hane-seeps

“If what we observed near Svalbard occurs more broadly at similar locations around the world, it could mean that methane seeps have a net cooling effect on climate, not a warming effect as we previously thought,” said USGS biogeochemist John Pohlman, who is the paper’s lead author. “We are looking forward to testing the hypothesis that shallow-water methane seeps are net greenhouse gas sinks in other locations.”
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 09 May 2017, 11:57:21

Of course, no link, and when we look, we find what he didn't want us to see.

The measurements were taken over
methane seeps fields at water depths ranging from
260 to 8530 feet (80 to 2600 meters).
Analysis of the data confirmed that methane was
entering the atmosphere above the shallowest
(water depth of 260-295 feet or 80-90 meters)
Svalbard margin seeps.


The ESAS averages 50 meters and has a max depth of 100 meters - far too shallow for interaction with the water column.

Photosynthetic algae (marine phytoplankton)
appeared to be more active in the near-surface
waters overlying the seafloor methane seeps, a
phenomenon that would explain why so much
carbon dioxide was being absorbed. Previous
research has shown that when cold, nutrient-rich
waters come up from the depths, algae near the
surface can use the nutrients to enhance their
photosynthetic processes, resulting in more carbon
dioxide being absorbed from the atmosphere.
However, this study is the first to make this
observation where methane-rich waters rise to the
surface.


In other words, their argument is that methane causes algae blooms that draws down CO2. And that they saw algae drawing down more CO2 than methane released to the atmosphere. And saying it offset.

Maybe, in some places, but the releases are year round and algal blooms are not. During the winter, the seeps continue to release methane with accumulates beneath the ice and releases to the atmosphere when the ice breaks up.

The study says they found significant draw down of CO2, at the time of year they did the study, do not indicate the amount of methane being released, but noted that the methane entered the atmosphere from the shallowest seeps.

Methane enters the stratosphere and forms PSC's which have a warming effect, so do we credit the methane or the PSCs for the effect.

That's the same thing they are doing here with the algae. And we all know that other things limit algal blooms and that once there are sufficient nutrients, adding more has no effect.

And there is a strawman in there:

These findings challenge the widely held perception that areas characterized by shallow-water methane seeps and/or strongly elevated sea−air methane flux always increase the global atmospheric greenhouse gas burden.


Don't know of anyone making that claim. And if all they are saying is, sometimes it doesn't, well ... duh.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 09 May 2017, 16:16:48

Of course, no link, and when we look, we find what he didn't want us to see.


Is your keyboard broken? How about pasting the DOI into search as that brings you right to the publication.

What I provided was simply the abstract, nothing more.

Their actual methodology is as stated in the paper:

The areas surveyed include a stable deep-water gas hydrate system (1,700 m to 2,600 m depth), a gas seepage area (240 m depth) suggested to be geologically linked to deeper climate-sensitive gas hydrate occurrences, a shallow water (80 m to 90 m depth) active gas seep field along the ridge of a glacial moraine, and a nearshore (<110 m depth) coastal zone. These sites represent the full depth range of potential methane emitting sites on high-latitude continental margins, including the potential for contributions from thawing subsea permafrost.


They make the point

Despite the spatiotemporal coincidence between high concentrations of methane and enhanced CO2 uptake at seeps on the WSM continental shelf (Fig. 5A) and in some other settings such as the Santa Barbara Basin seep field, we suggest that high methane concentrations are an indicator of, but not a necessary condition for, enhanced CO2 drawdown.


which seems reasonable, simply stating that in some places the methane upwelling is being offset but not necessarily everywhere.

and as one might expect they point out that it is an important observation and needs more study:

Methane seepage from high-latitude shallow continental margins is an atmospheric methane source (2) that could become more substantial as the climate continues to warm. Evidence that the cooling potential from CO2 influx at this shallow-water arctic methane seep overwhelms the greenhouse warming potential from the emitted methane suggests that methane seeps can nevertheless be net sinks for climate-forcing gases. If the sedimentary efflux of nutrients that support photosynthesis is related to methane discharge intensity from the seafloor, a positive feedback between accelerated methane release from the seafloor and amplified atmospheric warming may be offset by atmospheric CO2 drawdown. Further investigation of sea−air greenhouse gas fluxes at methane seep sites where upwelling-driven outputs are counteracted by photosynthetic CO2 drawdown (including light-limited wintertime conditions) would provide data to constrain which processes are responsible for enhanced CO2 uptake, quantify net greenhouse gas fluxes globally for shallow-water methane seepage areas, and determine if accelerated seafloor methane release will be offset by enhanced CO2 uptake at the sea−air interface in the future.


note that the main authors are part of the USGS methane hydrates research group...Carolyn Ruppel (a co-author) heads up that group.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 09 May 2017, 19:26:44

Yes, John Pohlman and Carolyn Ruppel, that head up the USGS Gas Hydrate Energy Project, working in close cooperation with the oil and gas industry to promote Methane Hydrates as the energy source of the 21st Century.

The USGS even misrepresents it's own research to sell methane hydrates as a safe source of energy for the future.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 09 May 2017, 19:49:57

Yes, John Pohlman and Carolyn Ruppel, that head up the USGS Gas Hydrate Energy Project, working in close cooperation with the oil and gas industry to promote Methane Hydrates as the energy source of the 21st Century.

The USGS even misrepresents it's own research to sell methane hydrates as a safe source of energy for the future.


OH, Jesus wept...a piece of published research that disagrees with your pet theory and immediately you attack the authors suggesting they have some nefarious plan and are somehow shills to the energy industry.

Here is Ruppel's comment on what she studies at Woods Hole:

My primary research focus is on the interaction among climate change, methane hydrates, and marine methane seeps, with particular emphasis on the US Atlantic and US Arctic (Beaufort Sea) margins. I also work on subsea permafrost, marine heat flow, the properties of hydrate-bearing sediments, the hydrogeology of gas hydrate systems, and sometimes coastal hydrogeophysics. As a side specialty, I assist with programmatic environmental compliance for USGS marine acoustics surveys.


and the USGS site speaks to what the USGS Gas Hydrates Project (the word Energy is not in that title BTW) does:

The USGS Gas Hydrates Project focuses on the study of natural gas hydrates in deepwater marine systems and permafrost areas. The primary goals are:
• Evaluate methane hydrates as a potential energy source
• Investigate the interaction between methane hydrate destabilization and climate change at short and long time scales, particularly in the Arctic
• Study the spatial and temporal connections between submarine slope failures and gas hydrate dynamics

And Ruppel's most recent publication speaks not at all to hydrates as an energy source but rather reviews current USGS knowledge on the hazards:

Ruppel, C. D., and J. D. Kessler (2017), The interaction of climate change and methane hydrates, Rev. Geophys., 55, 126-168, doi:10.1002/2016RG000534

Gas hydrate, a frozen, naturally-occurring, and highly-concentrated form of methane, sequesters significant carbon in the global system and is stable only over a range of low-temperature and moderate-pressure conditions. Gas hydrate is widespread in the sediments of marine continental margins and permafrost areas, locations where ocean and atmospheric warming may perturb the hydrate stability field and lead to release of the sequestered methane into the overlying sediments and soils. Methane and methane-derived carbon that escape from sediments and soils and reach the atmosphere could exacerbate greenhouse warming. The synergy between warming climate and gas hydrate dissociation feeds a popular perception that global warming could drive catastrophic methane releases from the contemporary gas hydrate reservoir. Appropriate evaluation of the two sides of the climate-methane hydrate synergy requires assessing direct and indirect observational data related to gas hydrate dissociation phenomena and numerical models that track the interaction of gas hydrates/methane with the ocean and/or atmosphere. Methane hydrate is likely undergoing dissociation now on global upper continental slopes and on continental shelves that ring the Arctic Ocean. Many factors—the depth of the gas hydrates in sediments, strong sediment and water column sinks, and the inability of bubbles emitted at the seafloor to deliver methane to the sea-air interface in most cases—mitigate the impact of gas hydrate dissociation on atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations though. There is no conclusive proof that hydrate-derived methane is reaching the atmosphere now, but more observational data and improved numerical models will better characterize the climate-hydrate synergy in the future.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 09 May 2017, 20:29:30

Yeah, yeah. I know who they are and their publications. And even without that knowledge, now that the Trump administration is in charge, I wouldn't trust anything coming out of the USGS.

Their paper challenged nothing I have posted, and YOU were the one who mentioned the authors like they were some trusted source. I just set the record straight.


The first goal of the USGS Gas Hydrates Project is to contribute to research that may lead to the development of gas hydrates as a potential energy source. The coming years will see the first long-term tests of methane production from gas hydrate deposits in both deepwater and permafrost settings. The USGS is at the forefront of these efforts within the US and sometimes has opportunities to participate in international projects with similar goals.

For many of the large-scale gas hydrates resource projects led by the USGS Energy Research Program, scientists and engineers in the USGS Coastal and Marine Science Centers in Woods Hole and Santa Cruz and in the Earthquake Program in Menlo Park have responsibility for some of the field and laboratory analyses of recovered bulk cores, gases, pore fluids, hydrate samples, and sediments. Some of the drilling programs to which USGS Gas Hydrates Project personnel have contributed include:

Mallik (Mackenzie Delta, Canada) drilling in 2002
Alaskan North Slope ("Mt Elbert" drilling at Milne Point) in 2007
Academic drilling: IODP 311 (Vancouver margin); ODP 164 (Blake Ridge) and 204 (Cascadia margin)
National Gas Hydrates Program (NGHP) India
Deepwater Gulf of Mexico Coring and Drilling (DOE/Chevron JIP) in 2005 and 2009
Methane Hydrate 21 (MH21) Pressure core analysis in Japan in 2012

Marine Hydrate Resources

The deepwater part of the Gulf of Mexico, a world-class petroleum basin, has held particular interest for marine drilling focused on evaluating gas hydrate as a potential resource. USGS personnel had both leadership and support roles in the 2009 DOE/Chevron JIP logging-while-drilling (LWD) program and earlier drilling and coring in 2005. USGS scientists also led the site selection team for the 2009 LWD program and conducted multichannel seismic programs that contributed to planning for the drilling in 2003 and the late 1990s. In 2013, the Gas Hydrates Project will complete a multicomponent and high resolution seismic survey at the sites of the 2009 LWD program, which targeted high-saturation gas hydrates in coarse-grained sediments like sands. Scientists currently working in the USGS Gas Hydrates Project were also involved in piston coring/jumbo piston coring, heat flow data acquisition, and other efforts to support DOE/Chevron JIP Gulf of Mexico resource studies in 2002 and 2003.

Hydrate Resources Associated with Permafrost

Although only a small percentage of global gas hydrate deposits are located in and beneath permafrost at high Northern latitudes, these methane hydrates may be the first to be routinely exploited as a source for gas to power on-site infrastructure needed for conventional oil/gas production. In 2007, the USGS Gas Hydrates Project had a leadership role and provided geochemistry and physical properties support for the BPXA/DOE/USGS coring and drilling of permafrost-associated gas hydrates at Milne Point, Alaska, on the edge of the Beaufort Sea. Future gas hydrates drilling on the Alaskan North Slope is likely to be focused on completing a long-term production test. The USGS has also been involved in drilling in the Canadian Arctic (e.g., Mallik well) and played a support role for the Ignik Sukumi test to inject carbon dioxide and nitrogen into a hydrate-bearing formation on the Alaskan North Slope. The USGS Gas Hydrates Project has also contributed to analyses of legacy geophysical and geochemistry data relevant to understanding Alaskan North Slope petroleum systems.

link

A shill to the end, eh rocdoc?
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Tue 09 May 2017, 22:59:39

A shill to the end, eh rocdoc?


well first off the oil and gas industry who you have accused me in the past of being a shill for (long time retired now, not possible) could not give a stuff about hydrates....we used to hate them as it cost a ton of money to deal with the hazopps associated with offshore drilling and if they did turn out to be big it would devalue pretty much all the rest of the gas that existing companies are producing. Why would anyone shoot themselves in the foot? This is a government sponsored initiative (well before Trump). The USGS is funded by the US gov't as well as indirectly through the DOE (in turn funded by the US gov't), not by the oil and gas industry. And of course you aren't getting the answers you want from the USGS so they must be supporting Trump and his nefarious ways. :roll: Get a grip..this is science and nothing more.

The paper challenges the idea that methane release from the sea floor will necessarily result in a disaster. Sorry but this whole thread has been about that pending disaster.

If you weren't concerned then why would you be questioning the possible motives of the authors?

now that the Trump administration is in charge, I wouldn't trust anything coming out of the USGS.


the article I pointed to above was a product of research during the Obama administration and was likely submitted for publication before Trump took office.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 10 May 2017, 02:01:27

The paper does NOT challenge that as I previously addressed. The ESAS is so shallow it releases the methane directly to the atmosphere without interacting with the water column. The methane on the ESAS is free methane from previously dissociated hydrates over the thousands of years since the shelf was submerged, capped by the relic permafrost that has now degraded and no longer acting as a cap. The release of 1-3% of the free methane on the ESAS is more than enough to trigger catastrophic climate change. And there is no way to stop it, as there is no way to stop the degradation of the relic permafrost cap. So far more than that will be released.

If you think I'm going to engage in a discourse with you or rehash the science beyond this, you are sorely mistaken.

Go try to sell your nonsense elsewhere.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Wed 10 May 2017, 09:45:22

The paper does NOT challenge that as I previously addressed. The ESAS is so shallow it releases the methane directly to the atmosphere without interacting with the water column.


the seep area they investigated was described as:

The highest surface water methane concentrations (Fig. 2A) and dissolved-phase fluxes (Fig. 2B) were detected at the shallow continental shelf site (“Shallow shelf” in Fig. 1A), where gas bubbles emanate from a seep field on a glacial moraine at 80 m to 90 m water depth (Fig. 1C) and dissolved methane is released from the adjacent nearshore coastal zone seafloor (<110 m water depth).

This is the area on which their hypothesis is based.

Stimulation of CO Uptake over Shallow-Water Methane Seeps. At least two processes could be responsible for the reduced concentrations of CO2 observed over the shallow-water methane seeps: (i) Methane bubbles ascending from the seafloor dissolve methane, strip CO2 from the water column, and transport this CO2 to the sea−air interface and release it to the atmosphere (12), or (ii) a physical and/or biological mechanism stimulates photosynthesis, and thus CO2 drawdown, above the seep area.


Go try to sell your nonsense elsewhere.


not my nonsense.....it is in a peer reviewed publication that apparently you did not read or perhaps you disagree with the authors that photosynthesis can happen in shallow water.

If you think I'm going to engage in a discourse with you or rehash the science beyond this, you are sorely mistaken.


Of course you wouldn't....confirmation bias at its best. :roll:
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Wed 10 May 2017, 10:45:19

Stimulation of CO Uptake over Shallow-Water Methane Seeps. At least two processes could be responsible for the reduced concentrations of CO2 observed over the shallow-water methane seeps: (i) Methane bubbles ascending from the seafloor dissolve methane, strip CO2 from the water column, and transport this CO2 to the sea−air interface and release it to the atmosphere (12), or (ii) a physical and/or biological mechanism stimulates photosynthesis, and thus CO2 drawdown, above the seep area.

where have we heard that before?
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dissident » Wed 10 May 2017, 17:11:52

pstarr wrote:
Stimulation of CO Uptake over Shallow-Water Methane Seeps. At least two processes could be responsible for the reduced concentrations of CO2 observed over the shallow-water methane seeps: (i) Methane bubbles ascending from the seafloor dissolve methane, strip CO2 from the water column, and transport this CO2 to the sea−air interface and release it to the atmosphere (12), or (ii) a physical and/or biological mechanism stimulates photosynthesis, and thus CO2 drawdown, above the seep area.

where have we heard that before?


This effect is trivial in the Arctic. Any CO2 drawdown is not worthy of discussion. They make it sound like there will be a negative net greenhouse gas release. This is utter BS.
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