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Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Squilliam » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 12:39:59

Hawkcreek wrote:
Cid_Yama wrote:
Glad to see there is some advantage to getting old. I wish getting up to pee 3 times a night didn't come with it. :)


Reduce your sodium intake. It'll help apparently.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Hawkcreek » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 13:25:01

pstarr wrote:Hawkcreek . . . of course global warming is real, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Plus the earth has been on a steady warming period since before industrialization.

and Dobhoi says, "Earth has been on a steady cooling trend since about 8000 years ago, cooling about .1 degree C per millennium."


Will it be pistols at dawn? Stay tuned.

I know this is just part of the big steaming pile of opinions I referred to earlier, but it is funny as hell. :-D
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 13:38:34

Hawk, I refer to warming after The Little Ice Age (LIA) a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period. That warming period supersedes this current, rather temporary industrial-age CO2/warming phase. These many cycles certainly may be argued ad infinitum.

Not my interest or argument. See ecology. See photosynthetic CO2 take up. It has barely been studied or addressed yet evidence suggests its effect are HUGE. Like the Donald, only HUGERRRR LOL
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 14:19:07

@pstarr

And then there was the Younger-Dryas Event about 11,000 years ago? The world cooled 11° F in one decade. Most of it in the first year or so. The Pleistocene has been the most climatically variable period in the last 32 million years. Throw in a couple volcanoes, a few solar storms, a blast out of the galactic core, and changes in the ocean-conveyor and things can change very fast. It would be nice if we understood it , but I've got a funny feeling that we will never get a handle on it. Mother Earth and the Universe are likely to throw us a curve ball at any time.

https://www.whoi.edu/main/topic/ocean-conveyor
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 14:24:53

I was a huge fan of the ocean conveyor.
... The so-called Younger Drys was a mini ice-age around 8,000 that seems to have been set off by the influx of massive fresh water into the northern Atlantic, around the Labrador Sea. An ice-dam melted on a giant fresh water lake in Canada. The north-atlantic conveyor is driven by surface water salinity- ...

by pstarr
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I even wrote my very first sci-fi script about it. But then the damn Day After Tomorrow beat me to production. :x
Image
Last edited by pstarr on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 14:29:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby shortonoil » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 14:28:20

"Reduce your sodium intake. It'll help apparently."


I'm 70, and have never used salt on anything but a potato. I go to bed at 10:30 and sleep straight through till 6:00AM. The only problem is that I can't eat fast foods and many prepared foods; too salty.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 14:34:06

Ginned up, just like fat fears: Scientific American: It's Time to End the War on Salt

"The zealous drive by politicians to limit our salt intake has little basis in science"
This week a meta-analysis of seven studies involving a total of 6,250 subjects in the American Journal of Hypertension found no strong evidence that cutting salt intake reduces the risk for heart attacks, strokes or death in people with normal or high blood pressure. In May European researchers publishing in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that the less sodium that study subjects excreted in their urine—an excellent measure of prior consumption—the greater their risk was of dying from heart disease. These findings call into question the common wisdom that excess salt is bad for you, but the evidence linking salt to heart disease has always been tenuous.

At best . . . salt-free reduces blood pressure a few percent. At best. But with no affect on mortality as per the above
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dohboi » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 15:14:26

Dementia happens! :) :(
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 18:03:56

dohboi wrote:Dementia happens! :) :(

No, dohboi. Unlike you I don't feed on popular science. I do the real thing.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby ralfy » Sat 22 Apr 2017, 22:22:39

http://sites.google.com/site/peakoilreports/
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 14:34:55

A recent paper has come out showing that Hydroxyl production is not keeping up with methane emissions. A few years ago a 'Hydroxyl Hole' was discovered over the Western Tropical Pacific allowing unchecked rise of methane to the stratosphere.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/04/11/1616426114

They kind of approach it assbackwards, stating increased methane concentrations due partially to Hydroxyl loss, but it is those methane emissions that are outstripping Hydroxyl production resulting in reduced Hydroxyls in the atmosphere, due to Hydroxyl oxidation of increasing amounts of methane.

The final analysis is that the atmosphere is losing it's ability to remove methane (and other noxious chemicals) from the atmosphere.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 15:19:52

Here is the article about the Hydroxyl Hole.

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/huge ... ific-17302
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby dissident » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 17:30:14

Image

The western tropical Pacific around Indonesia has some of the most active deep convection on the planet. This results in very low temperatures at the tropopause (the coldest on planet down to 187 K). It also means that marine boundary layer air which is depleted in ozone dominates any local formation of O3 in the upper troposphere through photochemistry. Deep convective towers form on the timescale of an hour so the vertical mixing is very rapid. The convective anvils that form in this region also tend to blank out the sun and suppress photolysis which is important for OH formation. So this "hole" is not surprising.

In fact, there is a lack of clear picture of the chemistry associated with deep convection. The active convection acts as a heterogeneous chemistry factory through both surface and bulk reactions in cloud droplets. Aside from the suppression of ozone mixing ratios by deep convective mixing, there must be a direct heterogeneous chemistry effect too. Chemistry transport models have been primitive in this regard since they do not properly account for the full aqueous chemistry. Such models serve as the basis for the broad understanding of the atmospheric composition.

The need for models is to fill observation gaps since the observations are not space-filling and are in fact very sparse. Satellite instruments can't measure composition inside clouds. All we have area a few aircraft campaigns and campaigns as described in this paper. It appears a discovery has been made that the standard chemistry is failing to explain observed OH levels in this region. But one can't extrapolate this region to the whole planet. It is unique in terms of the convective activity which results from a the mixture of steep-slope islands (e.g. Sumatra) and warm ocean water. BTW, deep convection is more active over land than over water in the tropics. This is reflected in the updraft core diameter and the cloud top altitude. Most tropical convection is below 14 km. Deep overshooting convection occurs up to 18+ km in a limited subset of around 5% of the cases. The western tropical Pacific has a persistent cluster of overshooting convection.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby Squilliam » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:33:09

I wonder if that also has something to do with the sheer amount of pollution in the region. The hydroxyl radical also plays a key role in breaking down pollution of different types and converting them into more stable/less reactive forms.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:41:26

I don't know . . . but the Pacific is doing fine around here. My friend just traveled by zodiak boat down the coast to the Sinkyone Wilderness, and the so-called ''Lost Coast". To surf. He came close several times to being swamped by breaching gray and humpback whales. But he and the whales are fine. Thank Gaia!

It seems neither the dreaded Fukushima radioactive plume or runaway global warming has destroyed this delightful corner of the planet :)

Cheers! :)
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby onlooker » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 19:45:07

Well yes Squil
Then, in 1993, Sasha Madronich, a researcher working for the US government, made a frightening discovery. At some point, Madronich calculated, pollution will overwhelm the hydroxyl chemistry. There will be so much filth around, the detergent will simply give up -- and quit. In fact, over some polluted areas, the hydroxyl shutdown is happening already, Madronich points out.

What you're witnessing is a phenomenon known among scientists as the ‘hydroxyl collapse’,

How more types of collapses do we have to worry about geez
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby clif » Thu 27 Apr 2017, 22:46:58

I don't know . . . but the Pacific is doing fine around here.


You're only about 1/3 of the way around the planet from where they are discussing ...........................

Why I bet the tsunami in Dec 2004 didn't disrupt your day either, that was about the same distance away.

Nice to see how clueless you can show yourself to be here.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby jupiters_release » Sun 30 Apr 2017, 10:54:46

pstarr wrote:I don't know . . . but the Pacific is doing fine around here. My friend just traveled by zodiak boat down the coast to the Sinkyone Wilderness, and the so-called ''Lost Coast". To surf. He came close several times to being swamped by breaching gray and humpback whales. But he and the whales are fine. Thank Gaia!

It seems neither the dreaded Fukushima radioactive plume or runaway global warming has destroyed this delightful corner of the planet :)

Cheers! :)


Thanks for the anecdotal evidence. :razz:

How them Chinook doing this season?

How many dead seals across entire state?
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 30 Apr 2017, 10:59:02

There are always dead seals in the ocean, but not across the state.
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Re: Runaway Global Warming - Has Arrived pt 14

Unread postby onlooker » Tue 02 May 2017, 08:32:56

18033926_1056064464537905_7184318373522192853_n.jpg
18033926_1056064464537905_7184318373522192853_n.jpg (30.93 KiB) Viewed 2253 times


Global warming projections from different models and agencies
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