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Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

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Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 14:58:34

Ignored for Years, a Radical Economic Theory Is Gaining Converts

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... g-converts

This seems timely, given the helicopter money era we're in. Why not just fund certain government expenditures, like infrastructure improvements, by just PRINTING the money?

Normally, I'd shudder at this, but let's be serious:

a). There is no serious indication we ever plan to pay off the debt, and if we did, it would very likely be in massively inflated dollars, royally screwing the bondholders.

b). Now that just printing $trillions to bail the government/banks out of a big problem, using ZIRP, perhaps using NIRP, etc., with no credible plan for restoring rates to normal, etc., we're alreadly losing credibility as far as the long term value of US currency. (The EU also).

c). If we're not going to pay off the debt in a meaningful way and are relying on economic growth to keep the system going -- then investing in the infrastructure things we need to make the economy healthy and competitive enough TO provide growth, would seem like an obvious way to go.

d). There are places this wouldn't even seem to have a cost to the economy. If government employs a million people who are otherwise living on social programs, those people earn an income, spend it, and PAY TAXES, it's good for the budget (ignoring the funny money spent, of course).

....

And I know -- the end result seems like hyperinflation. And letting congress do some of this would likely lead to them doing WAY TOO MUCH of this, vastly speeding up the day when hyperinflation arrives due to unpayable debt and lack of credibility/confidence in the currency.

But it's interesting. IF we had the right controls and competent trustworthy folks on Capitol Hill, this might make some sense, instead of just running perpetual large deficits and kicking the can down the road as we fail to do anything CLOSE to adequate about many infrastructure elements, including our educational systems.

So is this just a stupid Hail Mary pass? Or is there something to this?

From discipline's margins, new theory challenges deficit taboo
Calls for fiscal help are growing as post-2008 recovery lags
In an American election season that’s turned into a bonfire of the orthodoxies, one taboo survives pretty much intact: Budget deficits are dangerous.

A school of dissident economists wants to toss that one onto the flames, too.
It’s a propitious time to make the case, and not just in the U.S. Whether it’s negative interest rates, or helicopter money that delivers freshly minted cash direct to consumers, central banks are peering into their toolboxes to see what’s left. Despite all their innovations, economic recovery remains below par across the industrial world.

Calls for governments to take over the relief effort are growing louder. Plenty of economists have joined in, and so have top money managers. Bridgewater’s Ray Dalio, head of the world’s biggest hedge fund, and Janus Capital’s Bill Gross say policy makers are cornered and will have to resort to bigger deficits.
“There’s an acknowledgment, even in the investor community, that monetary policy is kind of running out of ammo,” said Thomas Costerg, economist at Standard Chartered Bank in New York. “The focus is now shifting to fiscal policy.”

Currency Monopoly

That’s where it should have been all along, according to Modern Money Theory. The 20-something-year-old doctrine, on the fringes of economic thought, is getting a hearing with an unconventional take on government spending in nations with their own currency.

Such countries, the MMTers argue, face no risk of fiscal crisis. They may owe debts in, say, dollars or yen -- but they’re also the monopoly creators of dollars or yen, so can always meet their obligations. For the same reason, they don’t need to finance spending by collecting taxes, or even selling bonds.

The long-run implication of that approach has many economists worried.
“I have no problem with deficit spending,” said Aneta Markowska, chief U.S. economist at Societe Generale in New York. “But this idea of the government printing money -- unlimited amounts of money -- and running unlimited, infinite deficits, that could become unhinged pretty quickly.”


Colored font mine, for emphasis. The "unhinged pretty quickly" is the part that scares me most, and given the proclivities of congress, it seems a justified worry.

To which MMT replies: No one’s saying there are no limits. Real resources can be a constraint -- how much labor is available to build that road? Taxes are an essential tool, to ensure demand for the currency and cool the economy if it overheats. But the MMTers argue there’s plenty of room to spend without triggering inflation.

The U.S. did dramatically loosen the purse strings after the 2008 crisis, posting a deficit of more than 10 percent of gross domestic product the next year. That’s since been trimmed to 2.6 percent of GDP, or $439 billion, last year.

So, once we have government spending / debt policy built on insanity, do we raise the stakes in the name of making the "right investments"?

Individuals do this all the time with financial leverage (borrowing on their name or an idea or with subprime credit). Of course if the individual crashes and burns, they don't take the system with them.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby americandream » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 15:48:58

Rubbish! A country can no more print its way out of debt without adequate labour surplus value (available in the entirety of the global capitalist system) than I can print my way out of personal debt. This is the stuff of right wing have no idea as to how capitalism works, jibber jabber.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 17:04:32

americandream wrote:Rubbish! A country can no more print its way out of debt without adequate labour surplus value (available in the entirety of the global capitalist system) than I can print my way out of personal debt. This is the stuff of right wing have no idea as to how capitalism works, jibber jabber.

Agree
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby SILENTTODD » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 20:29:06

onlooker wrote:
americandream wrote:Rubbish! A country can no more print its way out of debt without adequate labour surplus value (available in the entirety of the global capitalist system) than I can print my way out of personal debt. This is the stuff of right wing have no idea as to how capitalism works, jibber jabber.

Agree


But isn't this exactly how Lincoln financed the huge cost (for that time) of the Federal Armies and Navy during the American Civil War? He did not borrow the money from Europe, he printed "Green Backs" that were not backed by any gold specie. As we all know the Union side was able to raise large forces that simply overwhelmed those of the "States in Rebellion" as Lincoln termed them.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby americandream » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 20:44:31

SILENTTODD wrote:
onlooker wrote:
americandream wrote:Rubbish! A country can no more print its way out of debt without adequate labour surplus value (available in the entirety of the global capitalist system) than I can print my way out of personal debt. This is the stuff of right wing have no idea as to how capitalism works, jibber jabber.

Agree


But isn't this exactly how Lincoln financed the huge cost (for that time) of the Federal Armies and Navy during the American Civil War? He did not borrow the money from Europe, he printed "Green Backs" that were not backed by any gold specie. As we all know the Union side was able to raise large forces that simply overwhelmed those of the "States in Rebellion" as Lincoln termed them.


The battle between the north and south was between a then nascent capitalism (the north) and a landed gentry (the south...the very thing the Pilgrims fled England to get away from.)
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby Kylon » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 21:59:00

The Keynesian policy of printing money to stimulate the economy doesn't work in a globalized economy.

If you have a very local economy (like the one Lincoln operated in), or an economy with very high import taxes on finished goods, then the Keynesian policy of printing money to stimulate the economy has some merit.

However, if your economy is heavily interconnected to other economies, it provides little to no value at all, and simply debases currency and credibility of the central bank of that country.

If you have a relatively closed system, then if you print alot of money, and put it into the hands of people who can/will consume it, then they purchase goods and services. The increased demand from the goods and services, the increased flows of money, warrant those businesses expanding. They then get loans to invest in labor/capital/machinery/infrastructure, which by itself creates demand. This in turn causes the entire system to build infrastructure and produce goods and services.

However, if on the other hand, you have an open system, then if you give 1000 dollars to Bob, Bob will purchase a TV made in China, some Bananas from South America, some Coffee from Columbia, some toliet paper made in Mexico, and a few items made in the U.S.

The end result is it only causes marginal increases in demand in U.S businesses, which in turn only warrants marginal increases in investment spending/expanding production.

The end result is that instead of causing increased investment activity, growth, and consumer spending in the U.S where the spent money would ultimately be paid back quickly in taxes, you simply cause growth in China, South America, and Mexico, with a small amount of growth and spending in the U.S.

To put it simply, it is no longer a cost effective means of inducing economic growth.

So QE, NIRP and all that aren't going to save the economy.

If you had a local currency that had the equivalent of capital controls and import taxes built into it, so that it forced the money to stimulate national or local businesses growth and spending, that might work.

Some sort of coupon/reimbursement system might work.

But with the globalized nature of the U.S dollar, in it's pure form, as it is, it wouldn't work.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby americandream » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 22:27:07

QE was a localised quick fix using socialised funding (taxes). But given the precarious nature of the Bush fcuk up (following on from all the other various troubles left by his predecessors going back especially to the Reagan period), it was all that was available at short notice. The long term resolution relies on the global market to of course establish equilibrium as integration proceeds. How workers will fare in that depends on the nature of any specialisation that emerges and how concentrated development is or whether spread out. That to some extent depends on the managers of these nominal entities that will be the residue of statism which of course is what the WTO is all about.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby onlooker » Sun 20 Mar 2016, 23:36:24

Great reply by Kylon. I may add that the only reason that the US has been able to get away with all this QE and printing of money has been because of the status of the dollar as the Petrocurrency or Petrodollar. This signifying that the dollars is being circulated and in demand thus preventing from debasing (becoming worthless) too much. So in the exchange rates and setting of currencies it retains a certain nominal value. But this can only go so far.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 21 Mar 2016, 00:25:11

onlooker wrote:Great reply by Kylon. I may add that the only reason that the US has been able to get away with all this QE and printing of money has been because of the status of the dollar as the Petrocurrency or Petrodollar. This signifying that the dollars is being circulated and in demand thus preventing from debasing (becoming worthless) too much. So in the exchange rates and setting of currencies it retains a certain nominal value. But this can only go so far.


Mate, the Greenback is the unofficial global currency...countries have been trying to bypass it for yonks but their local elites are heavily invested in the US...so some local quackhead may jibber jabber this or that, but the local moneybags mostly have their surplus shillingies in either London or the US. I dont know why you blokes make it sound so complicated.

Naturally said rich buckos wanted the US economy given relief. Voila QE. This shit is like trading, easy.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby onlooker » Mon 21 Mar 2016, 00:31:37

Isn't that what I kind of said AD.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby americandream » Mon 21 Mar 2016, 00:40:19

onlooker wrote:Isn't that what I kind of said AD.


Nah mate. The Greenbacks velocity like Sterling is way more dynamic than just the oil trade. The two currencies are the base currencies in the world....to the degree that elites from every corner including Russia heavily transact in them daily as well as use them as havens. The idea that they will let the US keel over is just laughable. Trump may be a wildcard for Muslim middle and lower types and Mexicans creeping through tunnels, but the elites are always going to use the Greenback...until the global economy is fully integrated globally...Trump is not going to buck his global business network cos cleetus in a trailer wants a job picking pumpkins previously picked by Mexicans.........and the global economy is a way off yet with Islam pissing about.
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Re: Radical New Economic Theory -- Just Print It!

Unread postby ralfy » Sun 27 Mar 2016, 21:08:18

Kylon wrote:The Keynesian policy of printing money to stimulate the economy doesn't work in a globalized economy.

If you have a very local economy (like the one Lincoln operated in), or an economy with very high import taxes on finished goods, then the Keynesian policy of printing money to stimulate the economy has some merit.

However, if your economy is heavily interconnected to other economies, it provides little to no value at all, and simply debases currency and credibility of the central bank of that country.

If you have a relatively closed system, then if you print alot of money, and put it into the hands of people who can/will consume it, then they purchase goods and services. The increased demand from the goods and services, the increased flows of money, warrant those businesses expanding. They then get loans to invest in labor/capital/machinery/infrastructure, which by itself creates demand. This in turn causes the entire system to build infrastructure and produce goods and services.

However, if on the other hand, you have an open system, then if you give 1000 dollars to Bob, Bob will purchase a TV made in China, some Bananas from South America, some Coffee from Columbia, some toliet paper made in Mexico, and a few items made in the U.S.

The end result is it only causes marginal increases in demand in U.S businesses, which in turn only warrants marginal increases in investment spending/expanding production.

The end result is that instead of causing increased investment activity, growth, and consumer spending in the U.S where the spent money would ultimately be paid back quickly in taxes, you simply cause growth in China, South America, and Mexico, with a small amount of growth and spending in the U.S.

To put it simply, it is no longer a cost effective means of inducing economic growth.

So QE, NIRP and all that aren't going to save the economy.

If you had a local currency that had the equivalent of capital controls and import taxes built into it, so that it forced the money to stimulate national or local businesses growth and spending, that might work.

Some sort of coupon/reimbursement system might work.

But with the globalized nature of the U.S dollar, in it's pure form, as it is, it wouldn't work.


From what I know, similar happened to the U.S. in the past, but most people worked in farms and factories. They received more because the country was exporting to others, and "more" contributed to a growing middle class. But as various countries caught up in terms of manufacturing, etc., the country faced more competition. Meanwhile, growing middle class maintained their consumer spending levels by borrowing more.

Eventually, similar problems took place in these countries, and today even in countries like China.
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