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Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Pops » Wed 08 Feb 2012, 16:20:00

Here's why...
In remarks that raised some eyebrows in the audience, the nation’s top transportation official said this week that there is an “unlimited supply of oil” in parts of the world.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood made that statement Wednesday at Virginia Commonwealth University at the end of a town hall meeting attended by about 75 students, staff, and faculty members.

In the last question of the hour-long meeting, Vicente Gonzalez, a junior majoring in social justice at VCU, asked LaHood about a previous statement he made regarding future standards for automobile efficiency.

“I was wondering,” Gonzalez said, “you said that by 2025, the deal is to have 50 mile-per-gallon [vehicles]?”

“Fifty-four, yeah,” LaHood said.

“Well,” Gonzalez asked, “if we’re expected to exhaust all the world’s oil reserves within the next 25, 30-ish years, then why is gasoline being discussed in these negotiations at all?”

LaHood responded, “There’s an unlimited supply of oil in many countries around the world.”

Gonzalez questioned that, saying, “Unlimited?”

“Absolutely. Absolutely,” LaHood replied. “Now, some of these countries aren’t our friends, others are.”

As the audience chuckled, Gonzalez said, “So you’re saying the supply of gasoline will never end? That it’s unlimited?”

LaHood pointed at Gonzalez and said: “Not in your lifetime. Not in my lifetime. How else do you want me to say it? … We’re not going to run out of gas, we’re not going to run out of oil for a long, long, long time. Many countries have an unlimited supply.”

http://rvanews.com/news/transportation- ... ited/55970
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby sparky » Wed 08 Feb 2012, 21:21:08

Unconventional Ideas

"t's not that they're dumb, it's that their range is intentionally, and often for good cause, limited"

a perceptive coment ,and this goes to the heart of public opinion molding
as for scapegoats , the whole point is to heap the blame on an inoculous or distant figure
and deflect any blame from whoever was ,is and will be running the governance.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby radon » Wed 08 Feb 2012, 22:15:18

Recognition of PO -> Perception of higher risks -> greater volatility -> wider spreads -> retail investors kicked out from the markets
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby mmasters » Thu 09 Feb 2012, 01:23:38

radon wrote:Recognition of PO -> Perception of higher risks -> greater volatility -> wider spreads -> retail investors kicked out from the markets

Yeah and the more people know the more speculative investing will interfere with the economy leading us into some kind of internationally agreed upon price fixing of commodities.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Thu 09 Feb 2012, 02:18:02

Completely impossible sans forex tax. Nobody government wants a forex tax in any important country. Forex represents approximately 10 times commodity trading volume. Although absolutely unproductive, forex is much more the international roulette wheel. There can't be a forex tax without destroying this 'market', without which, the idea of an actual floating currency dies. Fixing commodity prices can only happen by fixing currency exchange rates and there is no way known TPTB have any intention of doing that.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby vaseline2008 » Sat 25 Feb 2012, 04:09:04

Our company's 401K plan doesn't allow us to buy individual stocks or ETFs, if I could I would invest it all in oil. Just out of curiosity can any of you invest in oil via your 401K plan?

Oh BTW, my bro-in-law was able to buy shares in Valero via his 401K while he was employed there, just wondering if in general the majority of companies out there allow such trading/investing or is my 401K just a crappy one...

But back to the OP's original question...is nationlization of the oil industry too far fetched?
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby radon » Sun 15 Apr 2012, 07:49:42

Why The Market Is Slowly Dying

... "what happens in a world where the very core of the capital markets system is gradually deleveraging to a point where maintaining a liquid and orderly market becomes impossible: large swings on low volume, massive bid-offer spreads, huge trading costs, inability to clear and numerous failed trades?"
...
as retail investors retrench more and more, which they will due to previously discussed secular themes as well as demographics, and HFT becomes and ever more dominant force, which it has no choice but to, liquidity and investment horizons will get ever shorter and shorter and shorter, until eventually by simple limit expansion, they hit zero, or some investing singularity, for those who are thought experiment inclined.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/why-market-slowly-dying
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sun 15 Apr 2012, 08:41:26

Pops Lahood is RINO. He is a former social studies teacher. He has no experience in transportation or the energy sector. From his comments, I suspect he is in the camp of those who believe in abiogenic oil. His ideas run counter to what we have observed. That makes him a very dangerous man indeed and might explain why we are spending billions on roads rather than rebuilding our light rail.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby seenmostofit » Sun 15 Apr 2012, 09:53:32

I would say that peak oil has already effected and shaped the markets, and the question would be better rephrased as "Public Awareness-How will it continue to shape the markets".

If it wasn't for peak oil and the prices which came with it (the main thing that people are aware of, Americans not being much for current events, reading the newspaper or paying much attention to the world around them) we wouldn't have some of the stimuli for changes which are already happening. Be they wind farm buildouts, alternatively powered transport for Joe Six Pack, stay-cations, the reaction of the airlines to pack every flight they fly to the max, and even the surge in local economies profiting from the higher price of oil in places like North Dakota.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 15 Apr 2012, 11:42:25

Seenmostofit, you have described an efficient market reacting to supply disruptions shortages with priceing signals that have told some technology companies to increase wind-farm investment and others their tight-shale plays. Consumers have reacted likewise, by staycationing out back by the weber, or sitting on their neighbors laps (in the plane).

Peak oil is another theory/model altogether (based on Hubbert's observations and a complex calculus) which suggests oil production is limited in geo/eco regions, rises and falls in a rough logistic curve, and lags oil discoveries by 40 years. (The curve also measures the ultimate reserve potential of that same region.) I doubt one in one thousand people have the faintest idea what I just said. Apparently U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is not that one.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby pstarr » Sun 15 Apr 2012, 12:06:31

Cloud9 wrote:Pops Lahood is RINO. He is a former social studies teacher. He has no experience in transportation or the energy sector. From his comments, I suspect he is in the camp of those who believe in abiogenic oil. His ideas run counter to what we have observed. That makes him a very dangerous man indeed and might explain why we are spending billions on roads rather than rebuilding our light rail.

What a tragedy to have a fool such as him in a position of power :(
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby joewp » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 02:06:57

pstarr wrote:What a tragedy to have a fool such as him in a position of power :(


You could be referring to almost any politician, bureaucrat or "business leader"... :evil:
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby dissident » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 09:20:37

Pablo2079 wrote:I'm not sure there will ever be full recognition of "Peak Oil" by the MSM.

The news will continually be cluttered up with symptoms of peak oil. The general public will associate things like "war in Iran" for the reason gas is now $7 a gallon rather than the root cause being Peak Oil. At the same time, the economy will continue to be ravaged. All Joe public will know is that they don't have a job, can't afford groceries and their house is being foreclosed on. I don't think the majority of people will take the time to research the root cause of the economic melt down or necessarily care at that point.


You have just identified the root of the world's problems since the beginning of human history. Intellectual laziness which translates into wanting to believe any dogma or cult teaching instead of dealing with reality. This syndrome will contribute greatly to the looming cataclysm (sorry but windfarms even if they grew at 200% per year would not save us).
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:25:35

dissident wrote:Intellectual laziness which translates into wanting to believe any dogma or cult teaching instead of dealing with reality.


Obama just gave a major energy speech today.

Once again he blamed high gasoline prices on evil speculators and promised to enact new government regulations to fix the problem and bring gasoline prices down again. :roll:
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:36:28

Plantagenet wrote:
dissident wrote:Intellectual laziness which translates into wanting to believe any dogma or cult teaching instead of dealing with reality.


Obama just gave a major energy speech today.

Once again he blamed high gasoline prices on evil speculators and promised to enact new government regulations to fix the problem and bring gasoline prices down again. :roll:
Better than the last. As I remember Bush blamed the Axis of Evil and invaded Iraq. Which one is goofier?
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Lore » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 13:05:50

pstarr wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:
dissident wrote:Intellectual laziness which translates into wanting to believe any dogma or cult teaching instead of dealing with reality.


Obama just gave a major energy speech today.

Once again he blamed high gasoline prices on evil speculators and promised to enact new government regulations to fix the problem and bring gasoline prices down again. :roll:
Better than the last. As I remember Bush blamed the Axis of Evil and invaded Iraq. Which one is goofier?


I still find it amazing that we spent around two trillion in actual and hidden costs on the war with Iraq and we in return got zip! I'm glad to see Planty is upset with Obama for not bringing the criminals to a speedy trial for the waste of blood and treasury on false pretenses.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby pstarr » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 13:17:29

Lore wrote:I'm glad to see Planty is upset with Obama for not bringing the criminals to a speedy trial for the waste of blood and treasury on false pretenses.
That would mean trying his beloved GW for treason.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 14:12:32

Lore wrote:I still find it amazing that we spent around two trillion in actual and hidden costs on the war with Iraq and we in return got zip! ... upset with Obama for not bringing the criminals to a speedy trial for the waste of blood and treasury on false pretenses.


Hi Lorey:

Its naive of you to expect Obama to bring the "criminals to a speedy trial" for the war in Iraq when Obama is still waging a war in Afghanistan, recently concluded an unconstitutional war in Libya, is funding the rebels in the civil war in Syria, and threatens war with Iran. :roll:
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Lore » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 14:30:27

Plantagenet wrote:
Lore wrote:I still find it amazing that we spent around two trillion in actual and hidden costs on the war with Iraq and we in return got zip! ... upset with Obama for not bringing the criminals to a speedy trial for the waste of blood and treasury on false pretenses.


Hi Lorey:

Its naive of you to expect Obama to bring the "criminals to a speedy trial" for the war in Iraq when Obama is still waging a war in Afghanistan, recently concluded an unconstitutional war in Libya, is funding the rebels in the civil war in Syria, and threatens war with Iran. :roll:


Sounds very reasonable to me. It's a dereliction of duty. You don't fail to prosecute for justice just because you're busy with other things. It should have taken place three years ago, well before Libya, Syria, and heightened tensions with Iran.

Another beef I have is where is the prosecution based on the 11 deaths with the GOM oil platform spill. It's pretty easy to see who really runs the Government, big business.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Public Awareness of PO - How will it shape the markets?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 17 Apr 2012, 14:32:48

MSNBC denounces Obama for "style over substance" in his latest attempt to blame high energy prices on evil speculators

Obama playing politics with energy, says MSNBC

Surprising that MSNBC "gets it" that Obama's attempt to blame high energy prices on evil Wall Street speculators is just political posturing that does nothing to solve the problem.

Obama is latest proposal is clearly designed to mislead the public about what causes higher energy prices, rather than to educate the public about the reality of peak oil.

Image
Obama is misleading the public about what causes higher energy prices
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