[Rod_Cloutier]

I used to think I had a well rounded personality. I know a little bit about everything, although I'm not an 'expert' on anything. (Except at my own personal job- I'm an expert at that, or at least I require my boss to believe this to be true)

At some point I realized that, in fact, I'm ignorant of most things that actually occur in the world. There are so many things that can be known, science- hundreds of fields, politics- hundreds of countries, history- thousands of historical events, general knowledge- factoids to infinity and beyond, and so forth.

Today I saw a 'shocking' North Korean film about Western Propaganda. (I'm not shocked too often):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... NMr2VrhmFI

This would be one of the best films on propaganda that I've seen recently, if not for the fact that this film is itself a propaganda film made by the estranged North Korean government.

As Jim Kunstler writes in his book 'Too much magic', 'The outstanding feature of our current situation is the inability to construct a consensus about our crisis". When Pilate said to Jesus during his trial 'What is truth?' he had a point! Where do we begin to sort out truth from the bizarre and weird world we live in to find the place where truth lives?

Bertrand Russell once said "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts".

I'm full of doubts; I hope that makes me wise!

[Keith_McClary]

Today I saw a 'shocking' North Korean film about Western Propaganda. (I'm not shocked too often):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... NMr2VrhmFI

This would be one of the best films on propaganda that I've seen recently, if not for the fact that this film is itself a propaganda film made by the estranged North Korean government.

When I looked it had an "inappropriate" warning - I had to login and verify my age.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Meanwhile South Korea goes on to unite the world, from Wikipedia:

As the song continued to rapidly gain popularity and ubiquity, its signature dance moves were attempted by many notable political leaders such as the British Prime Minister David Cameron, U.S. President Barack Obama, and United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon, who hailed it as a "force for world peace".[14] Its influence on political activism was exemplified by the short film Gangnam for Freedom, produced by the British sculptor Anish Kapoor to advocate the freedom of expression with the support of various human rights organisations such as Index on Censorship and Amnesty International.[15] According to the United Nations' news division, PSY has become an "international sensation" through his song "Gangnam Style".[16]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzivgKuhNl4

[Pops]

I've been reading a little about the subconscious lately. The amazing thing is that it can take in all the billion bits of info constantly provided by our senses and sift through for just the right parts that fit into a rendition of reality that jibes with the story it spun out the moment, day or year before - and do it all in a way so that our conscious selves are fooled into believing that daydream is "reality".

We all believe we have some objective grasp on the "truth", when all we really have is a personal hallucination based loosely, sometimes, on observations selected without our conscious input to confirm the hallucination.

Kind of liberating to realize "I" don't really get to select lots of the things I think of as observational truths, my subconscious does it simply so I don't need to go to the effort to adjust my previous version of reality. Even so, the hardest thing to let go of is believing the version my subconscious dreamt up is the real truth.

[Quinny]

Although sceptical about some of the conspiracy theories put forward I believe the general ideas around 'propaganda' and how we are controlled are generally correct.

The links to videos about Freuds nephew Edward Bernays that have previously been discussed here give a more subtle perspective, but on the whole backup the 'propaganda' from North Korea.

[Tanada]

Although sceptical about some of the conspiracy theories put forward I believe the general ideas around 'propaganda' and how we are controlled are generally correct.

The links to videos about Freuds nephew Edward Bernays that have previously been discussed here give a more subtle perspective, but on the whole backup the 'propaganda' from North Korea.

I have been watching the cable TV show Brain Games which is doing a whole season this year. I find it simply amazing how quickly the information sorting system in the brain decides what we see or don't see because our survival oriented subconscious mind decides without us even knowing.

I have always enjoyed optical illusions, but the episode about advertising and perception was a stunner. By knowing how the brain functions advertisers can literally give you tunnel vision by making a good first impression of whatever they are selling just by using key words and images that set up the way your brain processes the message.

[SeaGypsy]

I wonder why the film makes no mention of the proliferation of hard core pornography in the west. Much of what it does say is quite vague and propogandist in style, not bad entertainment though; something the NK's seem to be quite good at.

[ROCKMAN]

Tanada – Even more amazing is how the human brain responds (or doesn’t) once the “truth” is so obvious. About 20 years ago I read about this test. Everyone here can try it on their friends.

Simply draw a triangle with one point straight up. Then write 3 lines: top line: PARIS. Second line: IN THE. Third line: THE SPRING.

Tell your friend you’re going to show them a triangle with 3 lines in it for a couple of seconds. Read the line to themselves. Hide the paper and ask them what the sentence was. I’ve probably one this 50 to 100 times. At least a 3rd say it reads “PARIS IN THE SPRING”. Let them see it again and repeat. I’ve had folks read it 5 times and not see the second “THE”. A few times I had to point it out word by word before they could see the second “THE”.

Two obvious points. If we think we know the answer before we see the “facts” it’s difficult to see otherwise. And once we’re absolutely sure we know what the “truth” is it can take a 2X4 across the back of the head to convince some otherwise. If this is how the human mind works with a simple illustration now show them a chart with 6 different colored lines with a different vertical scale on either side and then ask them afterwards what they saw. And while we’re at it use metrics that most are not use to.

[Keith_McClary]

Propaganda also includes suppressing information. Google for :
"Carla del Ponte"

Do you see any results from USA corporate media? (Other than LATimes, kudos to them).

[Keith_McClary]

Simply draw a triangle with one point straight up. Then write 3 lines: top line: PARIS. Second line: IN THE. Third line: THE SPRING.

Just read about a study on this:
Grammar errors? The brain detects them even when you are unaware

Subjects were given 280 experimental sentences, including some that were syntactically (grammatically) correct and others containing grammatical errors, such as "We drank Lisa's brandy by the fire in the lobby," or "We drank Lisa's by brandy the fire in the lobby."
...
"Even when you don't pick up on a syntactic error your brain is still picking up on it," Batterink said. "There is a brain mechanism recognizing it and reacting to it, processing it unconsciously so you understand it properly."

I think there is a similar effect in visual perception - what we "see" has been unconsciously filtered according to some sort of expectation.

[ROCKMAN]

Keith – I saw a similar examples where multiple letters were left out of a long paragraph and it could still be easily read and understood. I suspect there’s also a bit of conscious effort to not see what is there even when our brain tells us what’s really out there. I think it’s more common amongst AGW deniers then many would believe. Because it goes against their plans for developing the economy many politicians may force themselves to reject the potential effects of AGW. Sort like wrapping themselves in a bullet-proof American flag: For the good of the country’s economy those warnings might not be true and should thus be ignored. Maybe some form of self-hypnosis. Either that or they are just flat out liars. LOL.

[Pops]

Maybe some form of self-hypnosis. Either that or they are just flat out liars. LOL.

Maybe LOL.

But self-hypnosis kinda implies that we have a say in which way our knee jerks, I think we really don't... at least not without some serious navel gazing anyway.

Take any example... say the current push against unions. On the one hand my initial knee-jerk is to the left, that the laws being passed against unions now are the death knell for any hope labor has of reigning in the rentier economy - post oil feudalisim.

OTOH, if I sit back and really think about it, a guy making $75/hr as a flagman on a CA freeway project is plain crazy. Or the person employed by the county that my nephew told me about, who is so obnoxious, incompetent and just basically so worthless she was given her own office and title of Safety Coordinator just so no one would need to deal with her. For all intents she can't be fired because the county is afraid of all the PC repercussions.

So on the one hand it pisses me off and on the other hand it pisses me off but my initial knee jerk is toward my own personal self-inflicted image of me as part of the pitchfork mob railing against The Man... Hope that doesn't put me on a worse list than I'm already on... that part about the pitchfork was just a metaphor!

[Newfie]

This one is a hoot.

http://teamcoco.com/video/media-reacts-easter-bunny

[aldente]

Never forget the Oscars (special edition "Joy Camp")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clza1XVA0SI

[Newfie]

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/ ... h_Goebbels

“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
― Joseph Goebbels

[Newfie]

Just wanted to say thanks for the topic and discussion.

[Keith_McClary]

The Ahmadienjad demonization

campaign tapered off a few months ago because his constitutional term ends today.

His replacement is touted by the media as a "moderate".

It will be interesting to watch how the NeoCon Likudist propaganda machine spins this.

[Subjectivist]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/1 ... 23185.html

Sales of 1984 have skyrocketed since the NSA scandle broke. I remember reading it in high school over 30 years ago, perhaps it is time to read it again.

[dissident]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/orwell-1984-sales_n_3423185.html

Sales of 1984 have skyrocketed since the NSA scandle broke. I remember reading it in high school over 30 years ago, perhaps it is time to read it again.

It's too cheesy with its portrayal of totalitarian brutality and subjugation. Proper totalitarians would recognize human behaviour and preferences and adapt their system to these weaknesses. Having the sheeple feeling happy would be the best long term mode of operation. Having them live in fear and misery like in 1984 is asking for revolution and all of the repressive techniques only work on a small minority of dissidents. Provoke the sheeple enough and you can get a "phase change" where there is a mass uprising. Of course it could take decades for this state to arise.

The current western system is the closest to the perfect "totalitarianism". The sheeple are all befuddled by side show freedom debates such as gay parades and gun ownership but all defer to The Man on substantial issues such as their wages and benefits. The elites don't need to engage in 1984 style sadism to stay in power. In the USA everyone wants to be a member of the elite and any attempt to rationalize the system such as universal healthcare brings about wild arguments about "state control" and outright inanity such as "death panels" (if you have no health care coverage or enough of it then you have your implicit death panel right there even if you are young). Tea Party demonstrators wave placards bemoaning "high" taxes on the rich (i.e. the elite) as everyone has drunk the koolaid that making the rich richer magically creates well paying jobs in some Heavenly trickle down. Clearly you do not need 1984 style MSM propaganda to brainwash the masses. In fact, a monochromatic propaganda media would create a backlash and lose credibility. The key is to have a phony diversity of opinions and be "independent" from the government (but naturally not from the elites).