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production versus exports

Discuss specific research and forecasts.

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Re: production versus exports

Unread postby TheDude » Wed 21 May 2008, 23:00:19

Death to embedded video!

Granted the Onion is a scream.

The ELM is an interesting notion but there are a flock of parameters that could affect how things turn out for a producer on the downslope - for one thing the poster children for the phenomenon, the UK and Indonesia, have massive populations; will a ceiling on demand be reached for other countries? What would be the reaction among non-OPEC to all of this de facto hoarding - an embargo on auto shipments? Or massive tarrifs? Or demanding that the ME nations purchase CNG vehicles? What if there's so much demand destruction the auto industry is severely impacted? Etc. etc.
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
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Re: production versus exports

Unread postby jimk » Mon 26 May 2008, 15:50:49

TheDude wrote:The ELM is an interesting notion but there are a flock of parameters that could affect how things turn out for a producer on the downslope


There are two ways to work with models like this - the logistic equation of King Hubbert or more elaborate versions like the ones I am playing with. This paper:

http://www.ifi.uib.no/sd/workingpapers/ ... oversy.pdf

helped me see these two approaches more clearly. One can use the model to get a feel for the basic shape of the likely trajectories a system is liable to traverse. Or, one can be looking for specific predictions. Probably this just comes down to long term versus short term, since long term predictions are impossible anyway.

Perhaps it's like climate modeling versus weather prediction. Climate modeling is useful for trying to get a handle on large scale phenomena like el nino etc. Weather prediction is more about whether it will rain on my picnic tomorrow.

Here are a couple aspects of my model that I don't like.

1) I treat money just as a way to facilitate trading, to find the market balance so that the total amount consumed is the total amount produced. Somebody on TheOilDrum commented that I don't take profits into account. Another way to look at that is that I don't take borrowing and lending into account. Someday the Saudis will stop buying T-bills and start selling them instead. What is that going to look like?

2) I am not so happy about treating each producer as its own little pseudo-logistic. What a logistic does is plot a transition between an exponentially increasing production rate at the beginning of history, to an exponentially decreasing rate at the end. It seems clear enough why the production rate decreases as the resource becomes depleted.

But why does the production rate increase gradually at the beginning? If we start with scads of petroleum in the ground, why doesn't the production rate just start at its maximum? Somehow this has to do with our extraction technology. There are two aspects to extraction technology: quantitative and qualitative. We use energy to make drilling rigs, and we use drilling rigs to produce energy. That's the quantitative aspect. But we also learn how to make better drilling rigs - that's the qualitative aspect. Or we learn what sorts of seismic signatures indicate likely pools of crude underground.

What bugs me is that a lot of the technological growth should not be producer-specific. The energy, materials, and skills that one producer uses to build drilling rigs - those rigs can be used by a different producer. Perhaps a different producer will have to borrow some money to buy those rigs, though.... which begs the question: what is a producer, anyway? Is Exxon a producer, or is Texas a producer, or what?

Oftentimes it turns out that adding lots of model details like these won't really change the structure of the equations - the details all just get combined into the various constants. But sometimes an extra term can become crucial. The interesting thing is to look at such models in terms of regimes, the way the nonlinear systems or chaos theory folks do. A system will often stay in one pattern for a while, then flip into a different pattern. Each single pattern can be modeled simply, with something like maybe a logistic. But more terms can be needed to see how the system can shift from one mode to another.
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Re: production versus exports

Unread postby jimk » Wed 18 Feb 2009, 15:38:46

Here's a tweak on the growth and collapse of national appetite. Really, demand can only grow at some limited rate, but it can collapse overnight. So how about:
Image

Some sample simulation output... the total volume produced & consumed doesn't look too wierd:
Image

But national appetites do collapse precipitously:
Image
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Re: production versus exports

Unread postby sparky » Tue 22 May 2012, 14:28:45

.
An interesting concept , keep going ,
I have some problem with your "appetite"
is it demand increase or gratuitous increase beyond production growth

Also for the supply /demand effect on price it's some log function
with a added fixed number for cost .
that's not just the technical cost , but also the producing country taxes
This number ( the extraction cost ) is a variable for each supplier
the cost is the price of the ultimate barrel to bring supply and demand in balance
if 100 barrels are needed and 90 of those cost 5$ while 10 barrels cost 50$ , then the price is 50$
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