What do these people do with all that energy....turn up the air conditioning? To put this in perspective if the French were to "hypothetically" consume electricity at that rate they'd need to literally double the number of nuclear reactors. --> build an extra 59 reactors.Twilight wrote:That's a 25% capacity expansion in just one year, ....Under the first of the new contracts announced today, GE will supply 20 Frame 9E gas turbines to Kharafi National of Kuwait for the Sabiya Power Station, which will add more than 2.5 gigawatts of power capacity for the State of Kuwait. The new power plant will be owned and operated by Kuwait’s Ministry of Electricity & Water.
In the first agreement, GE Energy has received a contract to supply gas turbine-generators for the 960-megawatt expansion of the Rabigh Power Plant in Rabigh City, on the west coast of Saudi Arabia. The project is part of SEC’s initiative to provide additional power to support the region’s economic and population growth.
Also...
• Frame 7EA gas turbines to the Al-Toukhi Company for Industry and Trading of Riyadh, the EPC contractor, for a 260-megawatt power plant in Jizan City, southern Saudi Arabia.
• 7EA gas turbines, also to Al-Toukhi, for a 120-megawatt power plant in Qunfutha City, western Saudi Arabia.
• 7EA gas turbines to the National Contracting Company Limited of Al-Khobar, Saudi Arabia, for a 111-megawatt facility in Aljouf City, northern Saudi Arabia.
• 7EA units, also to National Contracting, for a 183-megawatt power project in Tabouk City, northwestern Saudi Arabia.
Nope, because they don't operate in areas where outages are likely, at least compared to SCE. Otoh, SCE has many rebates available for more energy efficient appliances as well as a programwhere customers have cut-offs on their AC unit installed that can be activated according to SCE's discretion in exchange for lowering their bill.Twilight wrote:Now imagine ConEd or PG&E making the same demands. I'm talking mass texting an order with exclamation marks. Hmm? Not likely, is it?
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
Um... They own the FF's, so the higher and higher costs aren't a really big issue, and I doubt they could get a solar thermal installation up in a year, not to mention solar thermal isn't exactly the best candidate for a peaker plant.BigTex wrote:It is interesting, too, that there is no mention of using some kind of vast solar power collection scheme to generate this electricity.
Presumably, someone modeled the different approaches and concluded that even an inefficient energy hog fossil fuel powered setup was preferable to solar power, even in the middle of the desert, and even in the face of higher and higher fossil fuel costs.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
The increase in price depends on how much oil is taken off the world market, in this case we're looking at, according to aflatoxin, ~50kbpd if run at WOT for ten hours a day. Since these are peakers, they probably won't even need an average of 50kbpd in summer, maybe closer to half that, and throughout the year probably less than that on average.azreal60 wrote:I guess starvid the important point your missing is the rate of price rise will hugely increase because of the exporting nations no longer exporting.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
yesplease wrote:Um... They own the FF's, so the higher and higher costs aren't a really big issue, and I doubt they could get a solar thermal installation up in a year, not to mention solar thermal isn't exactly the best candidate for a peaker plant.BigTex wrote:It is interesting, too, that there is no mention of using some kind of vast solar power collection scheme to generate this electricity.
Presumably, someone modeled the different approaches and concluded that even an inefficient energy hog fossil fuel powered setup was preferable to solar power, even in the middle of the desert, and even in the face of higher and higher fossil fuel costs.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
BigTex wrote:Another thing I hadn't thought about much was that the spread of prosperity in some areas is probably a lot more energy intensive than others.
It's a likely assumption IMO, especially when considering that the expansion of desalination capabilities does not appear to be strictly linked to waste heat from the new gas turbine plant/s for handling the higher demand during summer.Twilight wrote:One small point though, it is by no means a valid assumption that these are peaker plants. In the case of Jizan at least, power and desalination, so by definition baseload.
JIZAN, 11 March 2004 — Minister of Water and Electricity Dr Ghazi Al-Qusaibi signed a SR334 million contract with a national company to expand Jizan electriccity station. The project includes building three gas turbines with a capacity of almost 200 megawatts.
The first unit is expected to start operating by summer 2005, just in time to help handle the higher demand for electricity. The second unit will be finished six months later and the third six months after that.
Al-Qusaibi said that the ministry wanted to have every house in Jizan connected to the network by the time its plan is completed. The ministry is also planning to expand Al-Shuqaiq desalinization plant to cover Jizan’s local need for water.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
yesplease wrote:It doesn't seem like they're using the additional generating capacity to allow expansion of the desalination plant, but if you have information that shows otherwise, please bring it to the table!
yesplease wrote:At least you aren't clinging to the idea that a few peaker power plants in Saudi Arabia is honest proof of the land-export model...
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
Twilight wrote:It is proof of the demand side of Export Land.
Professor Membrane wrote: Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
Reuters wrote: SINGAPORE, July 31 (Reuters) - Iran, a regular exporter of fuel oil to Asia, will halt shipments of the heavy fuel from August as it builds domestic stocks ahead of winter, and due to a heavy fourth-quarter maintenance season, industry sources said on Thursday.
Iran has been shipping out about 1.2 million tonnes of the residual fuel monthly since April. Rising domestic consumption and a lack of gas alternatives had also forced it to reduce exports over the past two winters.
"This is true, we will be concentrating on building up stocks for use at our power stations," a source familiar with the fuel oil export programme said.
Iran's decision came on the heels of Saudi Arabia's move to not resume spot fuel oil exports after its peak summer demand season, due to persistently strong requirements from domestic power plants and new secondary refining units.
Robust economic growth in Middle East oil-producing nations has spurred industrial demand for utility fuels, as power usage across the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) grows at an annual rate of around 8 percent.
Gas projects have also failed to keep pace with demand for power generation. Apart from Qatar, all Gulf states are short of gas.
AirlinePilot wrote:I think its time we start talking seriously about this here at PO.com. I see it mentioned frequently but it appears that we hand wave it away at times. This IS likely the real bump coming in the road when it comes to the effects of PO. This link to the Wiki on the topic is a good primer and there is much info over at TOD on this topic.
Lately one of the members over at TOD (west texas) makes regular posts concerning this metric and what it means with regard to global declines and i will link his data routinely here in this thread. Other discussions are encouraged. I believe getting a handle on this particular aspect of the current global oil picture is very important in the search for where all this leads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_Land_Model
Grautr wrote:The two examples I know of are Britain, which peaked in North Sea crude in 2000 and became a net importer by 2007.
Mexico peaked in 2005 and is due to begin importing in 2011.
The real blip will occur when this happens to SA.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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