[Transportation] Motorcycles & scooters

[Yavicleus]

So, alot of people that I have talked to say that they want to buy a hybrid car, but either can't afford one or the waiting list is too long.

What many people don't even know is that you can buy a motorcycle or a scooter for 1/4 the cost of a hybrid car, and it will get the same or better gas milage.

For instance, most 250cc motorcycles get around 70 mpg, and cost around $3000. For many, I think as a short term preparation for the days of $7 gas, learning to ride a motorcycle would be an affordable way of transport.

If you live in an urban area and most of the roads are 35mph or less, you can also consider getting a scooter. Scooters can be as small as 50cc's right on up to ones that are as big as motorcycles. There are 50cc scooters available right now for between $1000-3000 that will get 80-100 mpg.

I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC. Yeah, I know, not the best place to be, but hey, it's where I am. Back in March I bought a 200cc scooter that gets on average about 68 mpg and can do about 80 mph on the highway (it's technically a motorcycle). With the helmut, mods, & taxes, etc. it cost me around $5,000. That's 1/4 the cost of a hybrid. I can fit like 4-5 bags of groceries in the storage underneath the seat and in the small trunk that fits onto the back. Because of it, I now only drive my car when absolutely necessary.

Anyways, my point is that if you really want to get a fuel efficient vehicle, there are cheaper alternatives out there to hybrids.

[Terran]

Don't forget there are battary powered scooters. They seem pretty cheap to operate, some dosn't go that fast. All you need to do is recharge batteries at night, it should draw household currents and shouldn't be expensive. This could be an advantage as gas prices go up. Although electricity cost would go up too, I don't think it's going to go up nearly as fast as gas. Some electric scooters are pretty cheap, like around $300.

[Yavicleus]

Yeah, those are neat too. I think electric scooters and motorcycles could be huge in the market in the next decade. Already where I live, 50cc scooters are immensely popular with the Hispanic community. With gas prices going up, I've seen lots of people out on their motorcycles.

[stayathomedad]

the problem with these things is the weather......so if you are in freezing rain or cold driving snow, you ain't doing much with these things

[Doctor Doom]

What did you get exactly (make/model) for your 200cc 80mph 68mpg scooter? I agree now is a good time to learn how to ride a motorbike, I'm learning on an 80cc Honda. I also hope to get the license (required in California). Weather and road conditions are definitely an issue; luckily in California this isn't a problem most of the year.

Interesting that you see more people riding motorbikes - there's no noticeable change here, the SUV is still king in my area. Maybe people are rich enough that they don't care about the price of gas here. They'll probably give up their SUVs only when there are actual shortages and/or gas rationing.

[Doctor Doom]

O yeah, any specifics on electric scooters? My web searches keep turning up things that aren't quite what I was expecting. Scooter seems to have no fixed definition:

1. 3-4 wheeled powered chairs, like you see for elderly or handicapped people. Not what we are talking about here for a transportation alternative.

2. Skateboards with handles and motors, you ride them standing up - again, not what we are talking about.

3. Electric powered bicycles, similar to mopeds but perhaps without the pedals. Viable as a transportation alternative. Possibly not subject to motor vechicle requirements, a definite plus since you can ride them on sidewalks and such. Only one I've seen is the eGO-2, are there other similar ones?

4. Electric powered 2-wheelers of construction similar to the infamous Italian "Vespa" gas-powered scooters. Viable as a transportation alternative - would probably have to meet motor vechicle requirements e.g. turn signals, headlight, rear light, etc. Do such things exist?

5. Near-motorcycle 2-wheelers; I have seen some 250cc+ gas scooters that meet this description but nothing electric.

[gg3]

Do a web search for electric scooters and see what you find.

Here's a wild idea whose time has come again:

www.microcarmuseum.com

Think of tiny cars, often with three wheels, powered by engines you'd otherwise find on motorscooters and mopeds. Some of the designs are just plain cool and could make a comeback on that basis alone (plus or minus the risk-management nazis and their endless paperwork...).

In California, mopeds don't require licensing etc. below a certain size, I think 80 cc. The state DMV definition of motorcycle is 2 or 3 wheels. So you have a moped-size engine on a 3-wheeled frame, it's still a moped. Now if you build an aluminum body frame and attach aluminum body panels, what you have should still be a moped: no license, insurance, registration, etc.

Now wouldn't it be nice if someone made an 80-cc diesel motor...? You could practically build a little PHEV with that.

[Yavicleus]

For the record, I bought an Aprilia Atlantic 200.

http://www.apriliausa.com/models03/scoo ... ondo.phtml

I live in Virginia. One of our maintenance guys rides a little Yamaha Vino through rain, wind, and snow, so don't listen to that "can't use it when it's cold out" BS.

I mean, yeah, it sucks to ride in the cold and the wet, and I would never ride it when there is ice on the ground, but if a our little Salvadorian janitor can ride his 50cc scooter to work all year round, I don't see any reason why I can't.

But still, even if you're riding a cycle or a scooter 10 months out of the year, that is still far more economical than 12 months of driving a car.

Gekgo scooters (based out of FL I think) sells electric powered scooters that are street legal:

http://www.gekgoscooters.com/electric-scooters.shtml

I mean, this one looks pretty damn cool if you ask me:
http://www.gekgoscooters.com/electric-mod400.shtml

They sell some gas powered ones too, mostly Chinese made. If you're looking to get a gas powered scooter, I'd recommend Honda, Yamaha, or Aprillia. All three are a bit more expensive, but they are far more reliable. For the money, I've heard that the Aprillia 50cc scooters get something like 100 mpg.

In most states, you do not need a motorcycle license if the scooter is 50cc's or under. If it's above 50cc's, most states will require you to hold a Motorcycle license; which really isn't that hard to get. Oh, and if it's under 50cc's, you don't need to insure it either. They count it as a moped.

We have a pretty big Latino community where I live, and scooters are unbelievably popular amongst them these days for obvious reasons. I've also noticed quite a few scooters on the road in Arlington VA and in Washington DC, so that's something to be said. Yeah, I still see bastards driving their Hummers, but it's good to see that there are people out there driving alternatives.

[DoctorDoom]

Thanks, Y. I looked at those, but as a rank beginner I felt more at ease with a lighter bike and ended up getting an 80cc Honda. Here in California you do need an M1 or M2 license to ride it on the streets (I have a learner's permit now). I realize you can ride these things in adverse weather conditions, but it doesn't look like much fun, and in my case with very limited skills it could be quite dangerous! If I like it and assuming I get the permanent license, I may trade up to a bike in the same class as yours next year.

[tkn317071]

Lately I've been seeing a few segways on the streets/sidewalks. They run in the $4000 neighborhood and can go up to 12 mph. Probably more of a passing fancy than any kind of alt. transport.

The other day I saw a guy put putting up the street on his bike. Apparently he fitted his old mountain bike with a lawnmower engine or something. It was kind of funny, because he was still pedaling. The engine was super loud too.

[Ayoob]

I've ridden a motorcycle in a foot of snow, it can definitely be done. It was a Honda CB650 1980, and it did a fine job. You have to plant your feet on either side in the snow and you won't be going fast, but it can be done.

Not recommended, though.

Riding in the rain is very doable, though slow. I get about 40MPG on my bike and have no plans on trading it in anytime soon. At 40MPG I can go to town and back in one gallon. When gas gets to $10/gal I'll make fewer trips.

[BudDwyer]

http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html

[Ayoob]

http://www.tlb.org/scooter.html

Bud! Hey man, nice shot!

[MrPC]

One thing to keep in mind - road maintenance is probably going to get worse post peak as cash starved road authorities are unlikely to pay for the usual amounts of expensive ashphalt.

Many scooters come with tiny little tyres. One pothole could leave you with a serious repair bill. They also tend not to have good fuel range, which could be important post peak.

If you want a motorbike, get a real one.

[BudDwyer]

Finaly someone knows I shot myself. They just patched up my brain and stuff, I'm fine now. It was a nice shot tho.

[Yavicleus]

Aprillia and a few other brands makes scooters with tires that are motorcycle size. They call them "Scarebeo" scooters or something funny like that. I personally don't like how they look, but I'm sure they'd hold up much better to potholes than most scooters.

FYI, the maximum range on my scooter is about 150 miles.

[JoeW]

i own and ride a kawasaki klr 650. it is the suv of the motorcycle world. it's a dual sport capable of handling most of the terrain that a dirtbike would handle, and is also great on the street. here are some of the things i like about it:

engine: liquid-cooled dohc 650cc
mpg: ~50
gas tank: 6.2 gal (~300 mi range)
top speed: ~100mph
ground clearance: ~8 inches & can be adjusted
0 - 60mph: 4.7 seconds
retail price: ~$4999 brand new, i think. the latest model year has red tank/fenders, which looks much nicer than the green on mine.

This motorcycle has been around since 1986 or something, and mine (model year 2000) is not much different from the original. For this reason, aftermarket parts are plentiful, including kawasaki factory saddlebags, tank bags, tail bag... aftermarket windshields and tire selection for these machines is also great.

anyone interested in riding in the rain or snow would be wise to consider something like this. i have ridden dual sport bikes in snow on knobby tires, and it is doable for an experienced rider. it's ice that is really dangerous. for cold weather riding, the kawasaki makes enough spare electricity to power an electric vest.

if part of your emergency planning includes having a means to leave the area in a hurry, a motorcycle like this is worth consideration.

[Atreadon]

Found some more information on the M1030 diesel motorcycle:

http://www.drive.cranfield.ac.uk/cfml/rmcsbike.pdf (specs)

http://www.m1030.com/ (seller? not much info here)

http://www.f1engineering.com/index.html (manufacturer?)

I sent in a request for more information the last site listed, as should everyone who's even slightly curious. The more people that express an interest, the sooner it will be available!

[gg3]

Hot damn! Go Marines! Now we've gotta' get the Army interested!

I just sent in a request for price/availability of the milspec version, thinking of setting it up with a tool-carrier that can be locked onto the rear cargo frame, for geeks on the go to client sites.

If they could build a 3-wheeled truck with that engine, that would be way cool. Probably get "only" 80 mpg:-)

[Atreadon]

Hot damn! Go Marines! Now we've gotta' get the Army interested!

http://www.special-operations-technolog ... ?DocID=122